BA - Common Issues

[flybywire]

Unlike many people here I voted against the first and only SFLGW proposal. I found so many loops that the company would use in its favour that I was actually boiling with anger when I put my thoughts across (supported by the proof black on white) to the then CC89 LGW reps, who could only say "well we want it and if you do not agree you should vote against it. What the company wanted in the first place was much worse, you now get one extra day off per month!" I couldn't believe my ears.

I voted against because I knew that this SFLGW move was absolutely necessary for BA as it is nowadays, they needed it, not me, and if only we had all stuck together we probably would have obtained a better deal. It's like trying to buy a rug in the middle east, just a bit more complicated, but it's the same bloody game.

Having said that, the T&Cs I was under just before last october were already much worse than when I joined, so no, I didn't sign up for them at all, they imposed them on me and us all at EFLGW, so as they've done it with us they can do it with anybody else.
LGW has set a precedent which almost none of the thousands of LHR crew/unions cared about at that time thinking they were in a fortress, now this non-caring attitude is coming back to bite you in the rear. Not that I do not feel for you, don't misunderstand me, but I know it's just the inevitable truth.

It's just a matter of time, so far all what I was foreseeing has become a sad reality for us, so I am absolutely certain that it doesn't matter what you guys do or not do, it will happen. Willie could as well be speaking in german and I wouldn't notice the difference.

I hope this will teach us all something.

FBW

[flybywire]

Keeperboy I like your attitude. Some changes might be for the better, it's up to you all to fight for them though. Be tough, give up something but do try to get something equally important for you in return.

I love my lifestyle at LGW, (although I haven't tried BA's LH ops yet) I like the fact I can bid whether to do trips or stay in the country, whether to have certain days off and I like the fact I can call anytime and get a leave day for the following day. Not once have I been told it was not available. I can change my leave around after the rosters have been published to make it suit me better and so on.

Yes we earn less and have got ongoing issues, but for all the money in the world I wouldn't like to have a deal like the WW one where you struggle to get your 2 requests per year. There's life outside work for many of us, I adore my job but my personal like is much more important, takes precedence over anything else and I am happy that I can achieve a good life/work balance doing what I love most.
We are considered the "poor" BA crew, but we're not that poor, really, if you consider all the things as a whole

FBW

PS:for YD I should celebrate now, this is my 737th post on pprune

[traveller5]

I get the feeling that the SFLGW will ultimately be an all round winner, for crews and BA. As keeperboy says, the current terms and conditions at LHR WW do actually restrict crews themselves...creating sickness...meaning the company try and get on top of sickness...meaning crew get upset at being challenged for being sick....leading to BA wanting to change the policy...leading to crews getting annoyed at any change in terms.....a right little vicious circle!

I don't think the bullyboy tactics work, but maybe a series of trials for proposed changes might give LHR crews food for thought.

[RNboi]

Originally Posted by yellowdog

Superboy,

Working things out in my head I would expect maincrew to earn between 1300-1600 once and I repeat once all the routes come over. You must be able to live on that.

YD

Yellowdog if that is true then that would be maneagable. Just out of interest apparently the promotion from Main Crew to Purser will be relatively quick at LGWSF for the right people, what is the jump in basic to the bottom of the Purser scale?

[flybywire]

about £4,500 p.a. basic salary more than new main crew.

[RNboi]

Thanks for that FBW, not loads but a definite improvement, there may be light at the end of the tunnel afterall!

[Uncle Silas]

test

test test test test test

[yellowdog]

All,

Firstly I would like to openly apologise to Superboy once again. It wasn't meant as apersonal attack on him, and if it came across that way then I'm sorry. I must have been tired, emotional, and a bit the worse for wear

Trouble is this is such an emotive issue sometimes things get the better of me. Which funnily enough, for those who know me, isn't like me at all.

Anyway enough of the backtracking and apologising.

RNBOI,
FBW is right and the Purser promotion is about £14200, I think.

Keeperboy,
I really respect your attitude as well. I seem to think that WW conditons will have to change to suit the Company. However it does still get my back up when they ask for our support for the strike when, to tell you the truth, they have never given two pennies for us.

WLITS,
Once again you are the voice of reason. Thank you for supporting my thoughts. I, along with FBW by the sounds of things, was one of the few that voted against the whole SF fleet thing. Not because I didn't want the LH but because I was hoping that as the Company needed SF fleet more than we did then the t&c's may have been better. But saying that I am enjoying the trips and my money has improved considerably.

Superboy,
Once again it wasn't personal. The person you need to contact is, firstly your union. Write a complaint letter to them. Then copy in the person who is in charge of the GVA hotel. This info can be found on the intranet under the crew hotel guide. Each hotel has a person who looks after it.
I'm sorry you were lied to by recruitment what sort of figures did they quote you? I have just looked at my allowances for November and I can say that the LH is making a considerable difference.
I do look forward to flying with you, especially as WLITS says you are great at your job. Hopefully we can let bygones be bygones.

As I said in my original post I do feel really sorry for the new recruits because the money is so poor. It will get better though I'm sure, so if you enjoy what you do stick it out.

YD
Who will think before he types anything else

[twisted-diamonddolly]

I'm getting fed up with all you LGW crew saying everything is inevitable. ITS NOT!!!! Unfortunately LGW has always been screwed by the company and was formed from the ops of many airlines that ALREADY had inferior T&C's to LHR.... There seems to be this sense at LGW that "we've always been shafted and we don't deserve any better and I'm not in the union anyway". When SFG was proposed all everyone at LGW EF could see was the chance of longhaul and were blinded by it. LGW WW DID NOT VOTE on terms and conditions of SF, we only voted on the transfer to LHR. LGW EF accepted the SF deal , BASSA did the best they could but didn't have a strong hand ( because of the attitude of LGW crews), they DO at LHR.All crew should all log on to the BA BASSA website and see whats happening and educate yourselves. LHR is a much different base in terms of militancy and backbone than LGW. I say this as an ex LGW WW. So join your colleagues at LHR. VOTE YES and stop accepting everything as a done deal.

[bad bear]

Can BA long haul cabin crew "sell" days off?

Can BA long haul cabin crew "sell" days off? i.e. if BA run short of Cabin Crew what do they do? Do they just cancel flights or do they offer money to crews on their days off

If so what is the rate of pay?

[tofster]

Twistediamond,
Well done for strengthening the LGW/LHR divide. I am in favour of striking but your post was inflamatory and I fear that it will turn more LGW crew against LHR and agaist a "yes" in the ballot.
Just an observation.

[flybywire]

Originally Posted by tofster

Well done for strengthening the LGW/LHR divide. I am in favour of striking but your post was inflamatory and I fear that it will turn more LGW crew against LHR and agaist a "yes" in the ballot.

I agree entirely. Gives me (and probably many, many others) no motivation whatsoever to compromise my position in the company to give you guys a hand.

As for inevitable stuff, we'll see....
I have just read the CC News which states that the new EF service (which includes reduction in crewing levels) at LHR is well received by both customers and crew. WE know it's the opposite, really, they did it with EF LGW and now they're doing it with EF LHR in the exact same way. Did the big Bassa do anything to prevent that? Maybe. Were they successful? Ehm.....don't think so! Not until now anyway. Changes are happening, whether you want it or not.
Bad way of thinking on my part - I was famous in school for being the first to organize demonstrations and strike for the students' unions - but BA is another story. We have Willie up there. If you manage to piss him off big-time he has soooo many weapons in his pocket, you wouldn't believe.

I have seen an airline which was very dear to me close for one day just to re-open the following day with completely different t&c's......at that point it was a "take it or leave it and be grateful I am not making you re-apply for your jobs" situation........Many BA crew wouldn't even be given the job a second time if they had to be interviewed again....

FBW

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Guys from what I read I don't think my post made any difference. None of you were in the mood to support LHR anyway but I certainly didn't want to drive a wedge especially at a time when we should all be standing together. I had just come from compass was a bit tired and emotional and guess I was a bit pissed off because like it or not there is a sense on this thread that LHR are getting what they deserve.

ps maybe lack of backbone was a bit strong but you have to admit there is alot more apathy amongst LGW crew.

[SuperBoy]

Originally Posted by twisted-diamonddolly

there is a sense on this thread that LHR are getting what they deserve.

Diamonddolly contrary to popular belief EVERYTHING isn't always about LHR.

I'm much more interested in whats happening at LGW right now, same as LHR have been doing for years. Once LGW is sorted out then I'm open to possibilities wrt LHR.

There are many more factors but I would concider a strike if it affected all of us not just LHR. Losing the CSD position at LHR (we have CM at LGW) would not be one of them. Harsh I know but true.

As FBW said WW has many more tricks up his sleave. So far he has gotten away with everything that he has done and has anyone stopped him? Has anyone tried? Has anyone even attempted to stand up and say NO! I rest my case.

YD,
I didn't take it personally, as I have said many times before we all have different points of view and that is what makes this forum interesting. I too hope to fly with you.

[flybywire]

Originally Posted by twisted-diamonddolly

None of you were in the mood to support LHR anyway.

Well your supposition was in fact wrong!
I personally was going to go ahead despite 1) I am not in NAPS 2) I am grounded and my striking wouldn't affect BA anyway.

[tofster]

I'd second that, I know lots of LGW crew that would strike. Me included. But posts as yours makes me think otherwise, when you post on here as LHR crew you represent a lot of people. Some people will think that your oppinion is the general oppinion of LHR crew as its mainly LGW crew that tend to post here, shooting yourself in the foot a tad my dear.

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Guys think of me what you will but since I don't think you all have access to BASSA atleast read this please..

OPEN LETTER FROM THE BASSA BRANCH SECRETARY 08 December 2006
A message from the Branch Secretary – Ideologies clashing.

Having being involved with BASSA either as a rep or Branch Secretary for 15 years now I have seen at close hand how BA Industrial Relations behave. I have been involved in a few strikes and have lived to tell the tale but even I was amazed yesterday at the attitude of David LeBrecht who is the head of BA Industrial Relations.

At a meeting called to try and resolve our problems his barely concealed aggression, his outrageous statements, his dismissive manner and basically everything about him had the exact opposite effect in producing the better relationship that BA claim they want. If ever there was a case of throwing fuel onto an open fire it was Mr LeBrecht’s performance yesterday. 24 hours later the reps that were present are still shaking their heads in amazement and, to be frank, anger. To re-introduce the topic of hourly flying pay beggars belief. He would have done less harm had he thrown a live grenade into the air.

I went into that meeting hoping that we would see a shift in BA IR policy and maybe, with it, an improvement in our relationship. Well we did see a shift, a big one but it was in the wrong direction, and then some.

Being a curious man I always try and “comprehend” where the other side are coming from or, at least to try and view things from their perspective, but what I saw yesterday chilled me to the bone. BA are now completely driven by cutting costs to such an extent that they are becoming blinkered. Mr LeBrecht frequently mentioned BA’s desire to be competitive which is why he feels justified in attacking your terms and conditions and why he stated that your terms and conditions would get worse. Now I understand the desire to be competitive (and here is where BASSA and BA ideologies clash) but not to the extent where the employees suffer because of it. There are lots of ways of being competitive in the market place and keeping the workforce happy but sadly BA management are not interested in the latter. BA must be competitive at all costs is the BA mantra and look out if you do not choose to go along with them. It is this mad compulsive philosophy that must change if BASSA and BA are to ever work together again. Under David LeBrecht it is evident BA are determined to drive a coach and horses through everything we hold dear. This brings me to one of the fundamental reasons as to why we are asking you to take industrial action. It is not only because of all the “failures to agree” which we have outlined in the forthcoming newsletter but equally importantly it is to make BA see sense and to moderate this obsession that to be more competitive at all costs is the only way. I am not a businessman but I would have thought one of the best ways to be more competitive was to keep your workforce happy. BA need to understand this.

Finally as I said at the beginning I have experienced quite a few disputes with BA over the years but I can never remember such overwhelming support before. My computer has, since the orange flyer was sent, received nearly 1000 e mails from members offering support and checking to see if their details are correct. Literally hundreds of new members have joined BASSA in the last week. This is really heart warming and I can vouch that the reps have been much bolstered and heartened by your support. These are not pleasant times. From the amazing remarks made yesterday it is clear BA do not have a clue about how you feel. Come the close of the ballot I have a feeling there might be a rude awakening!

Thank you – Duncan Holley.

[SuperBoy]

DD,

As you are so involved with all this.

If LHR goes on strike and LGW doesn't will that change the outcome? As there are 14000 crew at LHR and only 1350 at LGW.

Say LGW decide to strike along with LHR how will this change anything for LGW?

Shocking as your description of Mr. Lebrechts attitude is, you forget that at LGW we are already working these "eroded conditions" and have already set the benchmark. I doubt that they can make much more cutbacks at LGW as we are already operating min crew.

I am sorry for the predicament that LHR find themselves in but I am yet to see a persuasive argument as to why LGW should also go on strike. Believe me I am desperately looking for a good enough reason.

I do however sincerely hope that LHR prevail over the corporate giant maybe that will give us the morale boost that most of us so desperately need.

Hypothetically speaking: LHR & LGW strikes. TU magnanomously prevail over BA then what? TU forget about LGW again.

It's happened before and it will happen again.

Apologies for the negativity but BA does what it wants and in my very limited dealing with the union so far I have found the reps to be disinterested and completely clueless (perhaps I caught them on the wrong days, everytime)

[Glamgirl]

I struggle to find a good enough reason for strike action on a couple of LHR issues...

Losing a purser on the jumbo (you have another 2 or 3, right?)

Making the CSD role a working position (At least you get a CSD and we're the only airline with a non-working position on board. CSD's get paid a vast amount of money, at least they could do some work for it - yes, I know some do...)

3 crew (we do this at LGW and most of the time, it's a pain in the backside, stressful and hectic. We also have lots of new entrants down here that we haven't got time to keep an eye out for due to this operation. No support from our "colleagues" at LHR though... and no ballot either)

I know changes in this industry are pants sometimes, but seriously, some of these issues needs to be addressed by the company in order for us all to survive and have a job. I'm not pro-BA, I think management stink most of the time, however, a militant union who walk out during talks and refuse to budge or listen is not doing anybody any favours.

Out of interest, I'm just wondering what these outrageous statements from what's-his-name were and what the actual proposals are please?

[twisted-diamonddolly]

Superboy.

For me what it really boils down to is my union asked me to strike. They would only do this if everything else had failed. I am on the new pay scale, have a **** pension and 14 years working for bmi before BA..so I know crap conditions... I value my My conditions so much and want to keep them and keep flying as a career a posiblity. the individual issues though I agree with most aren't the crux of the matter. BASSA needs our support. If we don't strike and the company percieves BASSA membership aren't really bothered BASSA will never be taken seriously again and there will be no protection for anyone at BA. and BA will be able to do anything. Surely thats bad news for all of us?

Guess I'm pretty more caught up in this than I thought. Bassa is no way a perfect union and I know gatwick have real issues which they don't feel are even priorities for the union. I can't really say thats not true. But can you imagine how much worse it could be without bassa?

sorry to antagonise everyone but I guess I love my job and want to fly for another 20 yrs but not if i'm always going to be just earning enough and tired . I've done that already.