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Loser at R5
I know a lot of Australian based crew in LHR and they are ready to come home!! As for the base manager, the guy is a total incompetent moron, that is well documented! You stick to spreading your bullsh*t about the FAAA here in Oz, now there’s a total CROC!
Time for you to give the game away, retire to your meat tray raffles and bingo games at the local RSL, the half drunk no hopers there might believe your dribble!
P.S the 'tampering with letter' quote was just a gee up!! HeHe I love stirring the pot!
I know a lot of Australian based crew in LHR and they are ready to come home!! As for the base manager, the guy is a total incompetent moron, that is well documented! You stick to spreading your bullsh*t about the FAAA here in Oz, now there’s a total CROC!
Time for you to give the game away, retire to your meat tray raffles and bingo games at the local RSL, the half drunk no hopers there might believe your dribble!
P.S the 'tampering with letter' quote was just a gee up!! HeHe I love stirring the pot!
Last edited by Bad Adventures; 12th Mar 2006 at 10:14.
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ozskipper
sir.
yes it is a VERY 'broad generalisation',as much as we were 'public servants' when we were owned by the government.
general opinion is that 'public servants' are those who are left in canberra,state government HQ,embasy's etc,etc when there is an election.the pollies come and go,the 'public servants' are career people who stay there.i accept your argument for those people,although i dont accept that it is as 'squeeky clean' as you purport.
and as i said i did not mention 'public servants',i was talking about seniority with pollies.
armed forces are not in those terms 'public servants'.and there is SENIORITY,and perks.
it is a fact of life that we as humans try to be better than, or lord over, others in any way we can,( a generalisation i agree)
'if you can get more than the other bloke,then all the better'.'the one with the most toys wins'
you just cant avoid it.controls will have influence,but it will still happen,and has throughout history.
and the thrust of the juniors to equal the seniors is also somthing which will go on 'ad infinitem'
thanks for your lesson,but not everyone agrees.that is a fact of life too.
yes it is a VERY 'broad generalisation',as much as we were 'public servants' when we were owned by the government.
general opinion is that 'public servants' are those who are left in canberra,state government HQ,embasy's etc,etc when there is an election.the pollies come and go,the 'public servants' are career people who stay there.i accept your argument for those people,although i dont accept that it is as 'squeeky clean' as you purport.
and as i said i did not mention 'public servants',i was talking about seniority with pollies.
armed forces are not in those terms 'public servants'.and there is SENIORITY,and perks.
it is a fact of life that we as humans try to be better than, or lord over, others in any way we can,( a generalisation i agree)
'if you can get more than the other bloke,then all the better'.'the one with the most toys wins'
you just cant avoid it.controls will have influence,but it will still happen,and has throughout history.
and the thrust of the juniors to equal the seniors is also somthing which will go on 'ad infinitem'
thanks for your lesson,but not everyone agrees.that is a fact of life too.
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priorities not a history lesson
Pegasus,
As I said you should be in PR however,I did not say anything about the move to Mascot but I did ask who gave the OH&S approval for the procedure of walking around in the middle of the night in complete darkness delivering drinks on trays?
I also asked what we are going to do to about our next EBA now rather than next year when Darth is knocking on our doors wanting to move the Sydney Long Haul base to Avalon as well.
A senior faaa official (a person who represents us) offering to work on his MBT when that day is a day of protest to the new IR laws does send a message to the company.Whatever the previous faaa officials did is not relevant because it is simply history ,all that matters is the present and what we can do for the future.
I mentioned that there are a number of people here that tell us that we are doomed and that there is nothing we can do to stop the company from taking away all of our conditions.
Perhaps they are certain people from the office spreading gloom but if we do nothing then that will have exactly the same result and working within our MBT on a day of protest organised by the ACTU and by a member of our union certainly does not help.
Management probably do read these posts but instead of posting here defending the person in question you should have reprimanded him and stated here that you had and that would send a clear message to anyone reading it including any management from QF
As I said you should be in PR however,I did not say anything about the move to Mascot but I did ask who gave the OH&S approval for the procedure of walking around in the middle of the night in complete darkness delivering drinks on trays?
I also asked what we are going to do to about our next EBA now rather than next year when Darth is knocking on our doors wanting to move the Sydney Long Haul base to Avalon as well.
A senior faaa official (a person who represents us) offering to work on his MBT when that day is a day of protest to the new IR laws does send a message to the company.Whatever the previous faaa officials did is not relevant because it is simply history ,all that matters is the present and what we can do for the future.
I mentioned that there are a number of people here that tell us that we are doomed and that there is nothing we can do to stop the company from taking away all of our conditions.
Perhaps they are certain people from the office spreading gloom but if we do nothing then that will have exactly the same result and working within our MBT on a day of protest organised by the ACTU and by a member of our union certainly does not help.
Management probably do read these posts but instead of posting here defending the person in question you should have reprimanded him and stated here that you had and that would send a clear message to anyone reading it including any management from QF
Last edited by lowerlobe; 12th Mar 2006 at 22:01.
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Pegasus
Is it true that the short haul faaa commissioned a fatigue expert who claimed that the SIN/DRW/ADL/SYD sectors were of sufficient fatigue as to warrant concern.The company then lumped long haul with those sectors because S/H would /could not do them.
Is this true and if so is this the same fatigue expert that claimed the LAX/JFK/LAX sectors do not cause significant fatigue.
Now we have been lumped with not only that but the flight now goes via MEL as well…is this your idea of being flexible.
Can you ask the company if they can find any more airports we can land at before finishing in Sydney on this trip to show just how flexible we are
Simon Templar...I agree that there is apathy but doing nothing will ruin our jobs just as surely as darth would have it.As far as political naivete is concerned perhaps if the opposition had a credible alternative at the last election the government might not have won
Is it true that the short haul faaa commissioned a fatigue expert who claimed that the SIN/DRW/ADL/SYD sectors were of sufficient fatigue as to warrant concern.The company then lumped long haul with those sectors because S/H would /could not do them.
Is this true and if so is this the same fatigue expert that claimed the LAX/JFK/LAX sectors do not cause significant fatigue.
Now we have been lumped with not only that but the flight now goes via MEL as well…is this your idea of being flexible.
Can you ask the company if they can find any more airports we can land at before finishing in Sydney on this trip to show just how flexible we are
Simon Templar...I agree that there is apathy but doing nothing will ruin our jobs just as surely as darth would have it.As far as political naivete is concerned perhaps if the opposition had a credible alternative at the last election the government might not have won
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by the way FAAA and management
I may not post here much, but I read it on a daily basis. ( like a lot of crew)
its been interesting watching the debate on seniority.
Its gathering momentum out there as well.
Back to Back JNB and BOM when crew are doing Back to back SFO has really upset many crew that were normally apathetic.
The senior and selfish are now on the endangered list!
I may not post here much, but I read it on a daily basis. ( like a lot of crew)
its been interesting watching the debate on seniority.
Its gathering momentum out there as well.
Back to Back JNB and BOM when crew are doing Back to back SFO has really upset many crew that were normally apathetic.
The senior and selfish are now on the endangered list!
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PEGASUS,
You are correct there has been alleged bad behaviour from previous officials in the past.
We are in the present! The here and NOW!
It is nothing short of an outrage that we have a very high union official who operates a long trip (according to cart exchange post 6th Mar) a London trip. The very next day operates a one day trip due to some pay protection.
According to the current leaders of the FAAA, MM, AS, this was a union who we are all to be proud of! One who would show LEADERSHIP! what leadership is it that says its ok to go to work for a hard full day the following day after a 9 day europe trip!
Worse is that the individual involved did not feel that a national day of protest against some of what is expected to be the harshest IR laws to be iimplemented were worthy of his attendance.
Pegasus you are doing an admirable job of attempting to deflect criticism for the individual concerned but it just doesnt wash.
If we cant expect our union leaders to set an example to abide by our hard fought award then what point is there in being in a union!Guardian who is always quick to respond is now silent on this matter.
Guardian the silence is deafening. Each day you remain silent and take no action on this issue further destroys the credibility you have fought hard to establish for the FAAA.
The hypocracy of the award breaching official is astounding!
There is clearly only on course of action. This is not a grey issue or a minor one. We have here the very credibility of the FAAA. We once again will be a laughing stock of the trade unions. What next? will we see our officials acting as strike breakers?
It will be interesting to watch what guardian decides to do. Will he put the credibility of the FAAA first or will a personal friend count more than setting an example to the 3000 members who elected him.
I have not posted before. Always found it an amusing if not interesting read. Now i am reconsidering my membership.
Pegasus you highlighted alleged bad behaviour from other officials. If that had been made knownat the time the outrgae and disgust would have been the same as it is with this personal breach of award.They would have been asked to resign. No doubt you would have led the call for such bad behaviour. Please show the same standard and call upon your colleague to do the right thing.
This official should be ashamed and do the right thing.
The credibility of the FAAA and the members it stands for far outweighs someones short sighted selfishness and greed.The best way for the offender to apologise is to resign.
You are correct there has been alleged bad behaviour from previous officials in the past.
We are in the present! The here and NOW!
It is nothing short of an outrage that we have a very high union official who operates a long trip (according to cart exchange post 6th Mar) a London trip. The very next day operates a one day trip due to some pay protection.
According to the current leaders of the FAAA, MM, AS, this was a union who we are all to be proud of! One who would show LEADERSHIP! what leadership is it that says its ok to go to work for a hard full day the following day after a 9 day europe trip!
Worse is that the individual involved did not feel that a national day of protest against some of what is expected to be the harshest IR laws to be iimplemented were worthy of his attendance.
Pegasus you are doing an admirable job of attempting to deflect criticism for the individual concerned but it just doesnt wash.
If we cant expect our union leaders to set an example to abide by our hard fought award then what point is there in being in a union!Guardian who is always quick to respond is now silent on this matter.
Guardian the silence is deafening. Each day you remain silent and take no action on this issue further destroys the credibility you have fought hard to establish for the FAAA.
The hypocracy of the award breaching official is astounding!
There is clearly only on course of action. This is not a grey issue or a minor one. We have here the very credibility of the FAAA. We once again will be a laughing stock of the trade unions. What next? will we see our officials acting as strike breakers?
It will be interesting to watch what guardian decides to do. Will he put the credibility of the FAAA first or will a personal friend count more than setting an example to the 3000 members who elected him.
I have not posted before. Always found it an amusing if not interesting read. Now i am reconsidering my membership.
Pegasus you highlighted alleged bad behaviour from other officials. If that had been made knownat the time the outrgae and disgust would have been the same as it is with this personal breach of award.They would have been asked to resign. No doubt you would have led the call for such bad behaviour. Please show the same standard and call upon your colleague to do the right thing.
This official should be ashamed and do the right thing.
The credibility of the FAAA and the members it stands for far outweighs someones short sighted selfishness and greed.The best way for the offender to apologise is to resign.
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well the official concerned wont resign or anything close to it...in fact the official concerned does it regularly...
Lets me explain...when you fly and do FAAA duties often you spend a week in the FAAA office then go flying on the saturday, or when you come in from a 9 day pattern on a sunday you might spend a week in the office.
Whilst MBT and MPG is important as an award entitlement it is for individuals according to their circumstances to determine. The hoary old chestut about the company watching what flight attendants do has been around since 1988 when the bid system came in and they are not remotely interested in what individuals actually do.
The rule is that you cannot complete a duty and commence another on the same day..This has been the case since a CSM operated an LA pattern and then came home and on the same day did a trans tasman service.
The issue is not about infringing rules its about safety. I think that if we are going to expect officials to fly and then have their standown before doing any FAAA stuff then it would grind to a halt.
For decades officials have combined duties or crammed them together just like flight attendants do to ensure time off.. If its good enough for flight attendants to be able to infringe MBT to do trips back to back to ensure a special day off then it should be ok for everyone.
Having said that, if flight attendants want the workrules changed to stop flight attendants from doing this then they need to pressure the union into it at the next EBA. I for one would be against it. Its about individual choice that affects nobody. To say that its sets a precedent is ludicrous as its a choice that the majority of crew have done from time to time.
The fact that an FAAA official does it and crew complain smacks of hypocracy to me
Lets me explain...when you fly and do FAAA duties often you spend a week in the FAAA office then go flying on the saturday, or when you come in from a 9 day pattern on a sunday you might spend a week in the office.
Whilst MBT and MPG is important as an award entitlement it is for individuals according to their circumstances to determine. The hoary old chestut about the company watching what flight attendants do has been around since 1988 when the bid system came in and they are not remotely interested in what individuals actually do.
The rule is that you cannot complete a duty and commence another on the same day..This has been the case since a CSM operated an LA pattern and then came home and on the same day did a trans tasman service.
The issue is not about infringing rules its about safety. I think that if we are going to expect officials to fly and then have their standown before doing any FAAA stuff then it would grind to a halt.
For decades officials have combined duties or crammed them together just like flight attendants do to ensure time off.. If its good enough for flight attendants to be able to infringe MBT to do trips back to back to ensure a special day off then it should be ok for everyone.
Having said that, if flight attendants want the workrules changed to stop flight attendants from doing this then they need to pressure the union into it at the next EBA. I for one would be against it. Its about individual choice that affects nobody. To say that its sets a precedent is ludicrous as its a choice that the majority of crew have done from time to time.
The fact that an FAAA official does it and crew complain smacks of hypocracy to me
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Pegasus,
Come on!
This guy is an FAAA senior exec,
He has to set an example!
It was not just another MBT day, It was the day of National Protest!
There simply is no justification! NONE.
"The fact that an FAAA official does it and crew complain smacks of hypocracy to me" (sic)........you're kidding arent you!
Come on!
This guy is an FAAA senior exec,
He has to set an example!
It was not just another MBT day, It was the day of National Protest!
There simply is no justification! NONE.
"The fact that an FAAA official does it and crew complain smacks of hypocracy to me" (sic)........you're kidding arent you!
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Nice one Pegasus , you really didn’t do much with that explanation did you?...except to dig yourself a large hole
After that little cover story you will need an excavator to extricate yourself !
After reading your post I think my new nick name for you will be Pirate Pegasus because with that eye patch you are definitely myopic !!!!
“The official concerned won’t resign or anything close to it….in fact the official concerned does it regularly”
Does that mean he regularly breaks his MBT or regularly breaks attendances representing the membership….
The other part I like is that the company would not notice him going to work the day after a LHR trip….who is being naive this time ?
With that statement can you see any reason why some think the faaa officials are just a bit arrogant and have lost touch with reality and the purpose of the union.
After that little cover story you will need an excavator to extricate yourself !
After reading your post I think my new nick name for you will be Pirate Pegasus because with that eye patch you are definitely myopic !!!!
“The official concerned won’t resign or anything close to it….in fact the official concerned does it regularly”
Does that mean he regularly breaks his MBT or regularly breaks attendances representing the membership….
The other part I like is that the company would not notice him going to work the day after a LHR trip….who is being naive this time ?
With that statement can you see any reason why some think the faaa officials are just a bit arrogant and have lost touch with reality and the purpose of the union.
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high flying aussie and his mates
high flying aussie and your mates(cartexchange and lurker@r5), you must be kidding!
Pegasus747 you have correctly explained the situation in relation to a pay protected crew member who chooses to work within MBT. Nothing new; it was always allowable, there was and is no prohibition against it and many crew do it for a whole range of reasons. There is no issue and certainly no action will be taken against the FAAA official.
You are correct, high flying aussie, the credibility of the FAAA is of importance and that credibility and the support of the members is intact and rock solid. Unlike you and 2 of your mates who are anti- FAAA and its current leadership and you are are either disgraced former officials who were massacred by the membership, or you are friends of those incompetents; the FAAA and its current leadership enjoys overwhelming support. Even S/H crew constantly ring to see if they can join the L/H FAAA.
To the malcontents who come in here and have got nothing better to do than feign indignation and shock at the unnamed FAAA official, i suggest you do something useful like go to the beach and get a tan.
In relation to the day of protest, the senior leaders of the FAAA who are on the ground (and criticised for that), MM and AS were both there at the protest with about 50 members (a very low turnout and another issue in itself). The fact that the unnamed official who you criticise wasn't there is neither here or there. He is entitled to organise his working life like any other crew member.
What this is really about is that 3 people in here who at the very minimum are friends of the disgraced and incompetent former elected officials of the FAAA are still smarting from being wiped out by the members in 2003 and 2004. That is all that the nonsense that they post in here is ever about.
Additionally, the unamed official that these sad individuals attack, is one of the most competent and talented officials that the FAAA has ever had.
He is absolutely a friend of MM and he continues to have the full support and confidence of MM. And he has that support because he contributes massively to the FAAA and to all crew.
No amount of cowardly anonymous attack in here will alter that. I suggest that those of you should ring the unnamed official at the FAAA. He is here all week. Of course you won't because you are cowards and because he terrifies you and because you know he would very quickly embarrass you. After all, your arguments are crap and without any merit.
I come in here at times to correct the nonsense posted in here by certain people. However, there should not be any confusion, those who post in here are a tiny and mostly unrepresentative group...as shown by those in here who opposed the JFK dispensation. The FAAA will not be diverted by a tiny anti-FAAA element in here. Whenever that element shows its head, it will be confronted directly.
The FAAA and its leadership has much more important things to attend to, like protecting jobs and ensuring L/H crew aren't thrown out onto the streets like the engineers. So whilst always amusing to read things from the critics in here, those critics who are mates of the former officials should not delude themselves. Your nonsense that you post in here will be regarded as nonsense.
Finally, if you wish to resign high flying aussie please do so. When QF takes disciplinary action or some other serious measure against you, don't bother running back to the FAAA.
I hope i have answered with complete clarity on the issues raised by the tiny clique of morons who continually vent their venom on the FAAA.
Pegasus747 you have correctly explained the situation in relation to a pay protected crew member who chooses to work within MBT. Nothing new; it was always allowable, there was and is no prohibition against it and many crew do it for a whole range of reasons. There is no issue and certainly no action will be taken against the FAAA official.
You are correct, high flying aussie, the credibility of the FAAA is of importance and that credibility and the support of the members is intact and rock solid. Unlike you and 2 of your mates who are anti- FAAA and its current leadership and you are are either disgraced former officials who were massacred by the membership, or you are friends of those incompetents; the FAAA and its current leadership enjoys overwhelming support. Even S/H crew constantly ring to see if they can join the L/H FAAA.
To the malcontents who come in here and have got nothing better to do than feign indignation and shock at the unnamed FAAA official, i suggest you do something useful like go to the beach and get a tan.
In relation to the day of protest, the senior leaders of the FAAA who are on the ground (and criticised for that), MM and AS were both there at the protest with about 50 members (a very low turnout and another issue in itself). The fact that the unnamed official who you criticise wasn't there is neither here or there. He is entitled to organise his working life like any other crew member.
What this is really about is that 3 people in here who at the very minimum are friends of the disgraced and incompetent former elected officials of the FAAA are still smarting from being wiped out by the members in 2003 and 2004. That is all that the nonsense that they post in here is ever about.
Additionally, the unamed official that these sad individuals attack, is one of the most competent and talented officials that the FAAA has ever had.
He is absolutely a friend of MM and he continues to have the full support and confidence of MM. And he has that support because he contributes massively to the FAAA and to all crew.
No amount of cowardly anonymous attack in here will alter that. I suggest that those of you should ring the unnamed official at the FAAA. He is here all week. Of course you won't because you are cowards and because he terrifies you and because you know he would very quickly embarrass you. After all, your arguments are crap and without any merit.
I come in here at times to correct the nonsense posted in here by certain people. However, there should not be any confusion, those who post in here are a tiny and mostly unrepresentative group...as shown by those in here who opposed the JFK dispensation. The FAAA will not be diverted by a tiny anti-FAAA element in here. Whenever that element shows its head, it will be confronted directly.
The FAAA and its leadership has much more important things to attend to, like protecting jobs and ensuring L/H crew aren't thrown out onto the streets like the engineers. So whilst always amusing to read things from the critics in here, those critics who are mates of the former officials should not delude themselves. Your nonsense that you post in here will be regarded as nonsense.
Finally, if you wish to resign high flying aussie please do so. When QF takes disciplinary action or some other serious measure against you, don't bother running back to the FAAA.
I hope i have answered with complete clarity on the issues raised by the tiny clique of morons who continually vent their venom on the FAAA.
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The FAAA comedy show
Pirate Pegasus and his parrot Guardian1 really are funny…..especially trying to justify a senior official (who sounds like rollover reed) who on a day of national protest for the new IR laws chooses to go to work instead of representing the membership..
This was almost as good as Darth on the ABC on Sunday justifying the loss of more than 300 jobs..
“He is absolutely a friend of MM”…..
This is really the explanation of the whole mess, no need to say anymore.
“He is here all week. Of course you won't because you are cowards and because he terrifies you and because you know he would very quickly embarrass you. After all, your arguments are crap and without any merit.”…..
Did you guys work for the Iraqi ministry of information because it sounds the same kind of rhetoric and just as funny
“The FAAA and its leadership has much more important things to attend to, like protecting jobs”…..
That’s right let’s not bother ourselves representing cabin crew ...we are protecting jobs by working for the company in our time off just like the 6 Australian jobs the company took off on the JFK shuttles and gave to the AKL crew
This was almost as good as Darth on the ABC on Sunday justifying the loss of more than 300 jobs..
“He is absolutely a friend of MM”…..
This is really the explanation of the whole mess, no need to say anymore.
“He is here all week. Of course you won't because you are cowards and because he terrifies you and because you know he would very quickly embarrass you. After all, your arguments are crap and without any merit.”…..
Did you guys work for the Iraqi ministry of information because it sounds the same kind of rhetoric and just as funny
“The FAAA and its leadership has much more important things to attend to, like protecting jobs”…..
That’s right let’s not bother ourselves representing cabin crew ...we are protecting jobs by working for the company in our time off just like the 6 Australian jobs the company took off on the JFK shuttles and gave to the AKL crew
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Guardian
I am still waiting to hear the excuse why that a FAAA official worked on that day!
Do you think this sets a good example?
What kind of message do you think this sends to QANTAS?
What kind of message do you think this sends to other Cabin crew?
If cabin crew work on an MBT then they are fools, its a different story for FAAA officials, YOU MUST SET THE EXAMPLE>
If FAAA officials don't bother showing up for important days like this, then why in hell should Cabin crew?
Just because he is a friend of MM does not excuse such actions!
Just because someone wants to know the Truth does not justify your viscous attacks!
I happen to like the official in question and I think he is more than capable, however that does not excuse his actions, I think he should apologize.
Just because someone criticizes an action taken by the FAAA does not mean that they are former FAAA officials.
Anyway tell me again about the representation we had that day we lost the crew rest seat argument.
Do you think this sets a good example?
What kind of message do you think this sends to QANTAS?
What kind of message do you think this sends to other Cabin crew?
If cabin crew work on an MBT then they are fools, its a different story for FAAA officials, YOU MUST SET THE EXAMPLE>
If FAAA officials don't bother showing up for important days like this, then why in hell should Cabin crew?
Just because he is a friend of MM does not excuse such actions!
Just because someone wants to know the Truth does not justify your viscous attacks!
I happen to like the official in question and I think he is more than capable, however that does not excuse his actions, I think he should apologize.
Just because someone criticizes an action taken by the FAAA does not mean that they are former FAAA officials.
Anyway tell me again about the representation we had that day we lost the crew rest seat argument.
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Housekeeping - thread closure
Closing this thread down now, as it is getting lengthy and cumbersome. Please continue your thoughts on the new QF thread QANTAS Discussions located here in CC
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216178
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216178
