The QANTAS thread
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Ok...lets move on from some FAAA dude working on some day he may or may not should have.
Someone asked for the latest in the S/H EBA.... the word on the streets...or the air... is that MEL is yes, BNE is yes, SYD is no. Same as last EBA. Wonder if that has something to do with the SYD base being largely ex Longhaul. Dunno. Figures in the region of 70something% of SYD S/H is ex Longhaul. True? Not sure.
Voting has opened via the phone poll and closes on the 18th March with an immediate result.
Stay tuned.......
Someone asked for the latest in the S/H EBA.... the word on the streets...or the air... is that MEL is yes, BNE is yes, SYD is no. Same as last EBA. Wonder if that has something to do with the SYD base being largely ex Longhaul. Dunno. Figures in the region of 70something% of SYD S/H is ex Longhaul. True? Not sure.
Voting has opened via the phone poll and closes on the 18th March with an immediate result.
Stay tuned.......
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Guardian1
Poor Donny would roll in his grave at this response:
Get a grip Steven.
This has been something QF has pressed for years - do you not recall the AKL station manager who decided to try it on???
The fact of the matter is that the FAAA are letting conditions slowly erode away and there's not a bloody lot the FAAA are going to do about it.
The so called ideals of "let's be seen to be part of the solution" just became part of the dilution of pay and conditions.
And all the little meetings with GD are nothing more than you guys getting stitched up.
Sorry but he is far more street and business savvy than you FULL STOP.
Wake up guys before it's too late. You currenly look very much like the labour party - all froth and no coffee!
The list of FAAA losses is getting pretty embarrassing so perhaps a list of wins would be encouraging:.......
And if the answer is that QF wins because the IRC says so then why do we really need the FAAA. QF may as well dictate the terms.
And my point: RELEVANCE
RIP Don Hutchinson
.
For a start qfcsm, perhaps the FAAA can give you away...... that would be an excellent start.
It's been said in here several times by various people including me that if people want to criticise that is fine as long as they know what they are actually talking about.
Crew rest was not "given" away by anyone. There is no entitlement to crew rest, until 6 hours is reached. That has always been the case, EXCEPT THAT QANTAS DID NOT CHOOSE TO PUSH THE ISSUE UNTIL NOW.
So before you unleash that ignorant mouth of yours qfcsm you ought to actually understand what you are talking about.
It is tiresome having to continually correct the anti-FAAA tiny minority that lurk in this website.
The saving grace is that capable people run the FAAA, and that the vast majority of cabin crew in L/H support the FAAA and its leadership. What a diasaster it would be if people like qfcsm ran the FAAA - people who don't even understand the basics.
It's been said in here several times by various people including me that if people want to criticise that is fine as long as they know what they are actually talking about.
Crew rest was not "given" away by anyone. There is no entitlement to crew rest, until 6 hours is reached. That has always been the case, EXCEPT THAT QANTAS DID NOT CHOOSE TO PUSH THE ISSUE UNTIL NOW.
So before you unleash that ignorant mouth of yours qfcsm you ought to actually understand what you are talking about.
It is tiresome having to continually correct the anti-FAAA tiny minority that lurk in this website.
The saving grace is that capable people run the FAAA, and that the vast majority of cabin crew in L/H support the FAAA and its leadership. What a diasaster it would be if people like qfcsm ran the FAAA - people who don't even understand the basics.
This has been something QF has pressed for years - do you not recall the AKL station manager who decided to try it on???
The fact of the matter is that the FAAA are letting conditions slowly erode away and there's not a bloody lot the FAAA are going to do about it.
The so called ideals of "let's be seen to be part of the solution" just became part of the dilution of pay and conditions.
And all the little meetings with GD are nothing more than you guys getting stitched up.
Sorry but he is far more street and business savvy than you FULL STOP.
Wake up guys before it's too late. You currenly look very much like the labour party - all froth and no coffee!
The list of FAAA losses is getting pretty embarrassing so perhaps a list of wins would be encouraging:.......
And if the answer is that QF wins because the IRC says so then why do we really need the FAAA. QF may as well dictate the terms.
And my point: RELEVANCE
RIP Don Hutchinson
.
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public service
ozskipper.
read again.i did not mention 'public service'.
dont tell me you think there is no seniority with politions.
rule of thumb,if all else fails 'read the instructions'.
read again.i did not mention 'public service'.
dont tell me you think there is no seniority with politions.
rule of thumb,if all else fails 'read the instructions'.
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bidding system
to all,
if you change,attemt to change,or vote on changing the bidding system,based on seniority,what will you achieve.
1/capping trips will give the next available trip to the next available f/a (any catagory)so if you are junior.no change.if you are senior,slight change.
2/capping unpopular trips,what exactly,is unpopular, and what is popular.one mans meat is another mans poison.
3/this whole discussion,i guess, has gained inertia with the introduction of SFO services.
4/ think about it.REALLY THINK
5/there are 3 a week,/24 a roster/cap it to 2 a bid period.
6/therefore the top 12 will get them all,
7/if you are seniority 13 and above,i'm colser to 200.YOU WILL NOT GET THE GOOD TRIPS,SFO OR ANYWHERE
8/look at the ,mathematics
9/nothing will work better than the system we have now.
10/unless you are willing to give up what you have now.
11/WHICH IS SENIORITY
if you change,attemt to change,or vote on changing the bidding system,based on seniority,what will you achieve.
1/capping trips will give the next available trip to the next available f/a (any catagory)so if you are junior.no change.if you are senior,slight change.
2/capping unpopular trips,what exactly,is unpopular, and what is popular.one mans meat is another mans poison.
3/this whole discussion,i guess, has gained inertia with the introduction of SFO services.
4/ think about it.REALLY THINK
5/there are 3 a week,/24 a roster/cap it to 2 a bid period.
6/therefore the top 12 will get them all,
7/if you are seniority 13 and above,i'm colser to 200.YOU WILL NOT GET THE GOOD TRIPS,SFO OR ANYWHERE
8/look at the ,mathematics
9/nothing will work better than the system we have now.
10/unless you are willing to give up what you have now.
11/WHICH IS SENIORITY
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Yellow Flag,
With the greatest of respect, perhaps you might want "read the instructions" as you so put it.
The State, Federal Governments and Police, Defence Forces amongst other Departments form the public service! Just about everything funded by consolidated revenue is considered to be the public service (this is a broad generalisation). Perhaps a short course in politics, public service and government would be useful (yes there is a difference between all three).
And yes, I can tell you that the concept of getting more perks for doing the SAME job does not exist in organisations funded by consolidated revenue. It can't - the Public Sector Merit / Equity Board's (under various guises in each State and Territory) made sure of that.
Anyway, I'm not here to educate....
With the greatest of respect, perhaps you might want "read the instructions" as you so put it.
The State, Federal Governments and Police, Defence Forces amongst other Departments form the public service! Just about everything funded by consolidated revenue is considered to be the public service (this is a broad generalisation). Perhaps a short course in politics, public service and government would be useful (yes there is a difference between all three).
And yes, I can tell you that the concept of getting more perks for doing the SAME job does not exist in organisations funded by consolidated revenue. It can't - the Public Sector Merit / Equity Board's (under various guises in each State and Territory) made sure of that.
Anyway, I'm not here to educate....
Originally Posted by yellow flag
ozskipper.
read again.i did not mention 'public service'.
dont tell me you think there is no seniority with politions.
rule of thumb,if all else fails 'read the instructions'.
read again.i did not mention 'public service'.
dont tell me you think there is no seniority with politions.
rule of thumb,if all else fails 'read the instructions'.
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Does any else here think it is about time the faaa called some meetings to discuss our next EBA and what possible trade offs could be used !!
With the announcement of the closure of the heavy maintenance section in Sydney and the J* international tech crew EBA ,you don’t have to have the connections of Bad adventures to know that we are next in line for attention from Darth and his mates.
We have to start moving now rather than later to come up with ideas or is that being too pro active or flexible for the boys in the office.
With the announcement of the closure of the heavy maintenance section in Sydney and the J* international tech crew EBA ,you don’t have to have the connections of Bad adventures to know that we are next in line for attention from Darth and his mates.
We have to start moving now rather than later to come up with ideas or is that being too pro active or flexible for the boys in the office.
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EBAs are Kaput
The changes to the IR system means that once EBAs expire its open slather for employers to introduce whatever employment arrangements(contracts) they feel are appropriate to their industry.
The Brave new world(sic)
The Brave new world(sic)
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I'm sure there are people in this forum who for a variety of reasons tell us we are doomed but doing nothing will certainly achieve that end as well.
maybe that is the intention of some posts here...
maybe that is the intention of some posts here...
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Apathy
Apathy industrially and apathy,stupidity and naivete at the polling booth have lead us to where we are now.
Its going to take a long time and a lot of pain to gain some semblance of where we were.
Its going to take a long time and a lot of pain to gain some semblance of where we were.
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mygod is that the take home pay!!!! that is awful no wonder the lhr was a cost cutting exercise for qantas bet the crew's downunder wouldn't get out of bed for that i wouldn't either!!!!!!.
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Factual Info
All trips are
33hrs in BKK
44hrs in HKG
and 48 Hrs is SIN except one pattern of 28hrs that finish's in March 06.
Single sector 747-400 flying with 3 to 4 days off between trips.
Take home for f/a is about $1150 plus cash allowances in out ports.
Medical and pension paid for with great chance for promotion over the next 2years.
As the 200 Aus crew go home after start up.
It's a part time job really flying twice every 7 days on average.
Wage negosiations at the moment looking at a 5% increase per year over the next 3 years.
33hrs in BKK
44hrs in HKG
and 48 Hrs is SIN except one pattern of 28hrs that finish's in March 06.
Single sector 747-400 flying with 3 to 4 days off between trips.
Take home for f/a is about $1150 plus cash allowances in out ports.
Medical and pension paid for with great chance for promotion over the next 2years.
As the 200 Aus crew go home after start up.
It's a part time job really flying twice every 7 days on average.
Wage negosiations at the moment looking at a 5% increase per year over the next 3 years.
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All slips for LHR based crew in Singapore will be 27.30 hours from April 06 not 48 hours. The slip in HKG was going to be 24 hours but was changed to 44 hours due to the extremely high level of sick leave that occurs at the base although I believe the company is looking at reducing that slip back to 24 hours to achieve further cost savings. Nearly all the Australian based crew who took the 2 year stint up there can’t wait to get out of the joint, they just can't make ends meet. Flights often leave short crewed as crew go sick up line and are not replaced, therefore increasing the workload on remaining crew.
The manager of the base recently occupied the OHCCR facility down to Asia contrary to CASA requirements, unbelievably unprofessional. As for a pay rise of 5% per year over 3 years. I mean really, you do have to be kidding yourself. Nearly 300 heavy maintenance engineers have just been sacked here in Australia due to the closure of the Jet Base here in Sydney in order to cut costs. So 5%, I don’t think so. 3% is the norm.
The manager of the base recently occupied the OHCCR facility down to Asia contrary to CASA requirements, unbelievably unprofessional. As for a pay rise of 5% per year over 3 years. I mean really, you do have to be kidding yourself. Nearly 300 heavy maintenance engineers have just been sacked here in Australia due to the closure of the Jet Base here in Sydney in order to cut costs. So 5%, I don’t think so. 3% is the norm.
Last edited by Bad Adventures; 13th Mar 2006 at 00:09.
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full of sh*t
Bad Advise-
where do you get your info from ? I know a couple of Aust. based crew up in LHR -and what you say is an ABSOLUTE CROCK OF MERDE!
I've taken the time to speak socially in SIN to a few local employee guys on the LHR base- and the salary is actually competitive for European airlines . That's what's frightening about the model Geoff has in mind for us.
If you want to discuss the pros & cons of off shore bases - by all means - but dopey posts like yours destroy all credible analysis of whats really going on in those bases.
"The manager shredding & destroying , doctoring " letters.... where did you get that piece of crap?
mate save your fiction for "The Womens' Weekly"
where do you get your info from ? I know a couple of Aust. based crew up in LHR -and what you say is an ABSOLUTE CROCK OF MERDE!
I've taken the time to speak socially in SIN to a few local employee guys on the LHR base- and the salary is actually competitive for European airlines . That's what's frightening about the model Geoff has in mind for us.
If you want to discuss the pros & cons of off shore bases - by all means - but dopey posts like yours destroy all credible analysis of whats really going on in those bases.
"The manager shredding & destroying , doctoring " letters.... where did you get that piece of crap?
mate save your fiction for "The Womens' Weekly"
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knowing your priorities
It was with respect that I read that the Unions NSW was selling its recreational area at Currowong so as to raise millions of dollars to fight the Howard Govt's Union Busting IR laws........
meanwhile back at the Lotus Land of the FAAA - why would you move out of Sussex St -the home of Unionism in Australia - the real power base where its easy to physically cross paths with some of the most powerful union reps in Aust - why do you leave network central and spend $900,000 of hard earned members fees on a office in the Mascot burbs??? (Even Qantas Management has realised the absurdity of basing its operaions in over priced Sydney)
When will the FAAA realise that it doesn't just represent the senior & selfish of The Shire?
And just quietly - I still reckon a Senior Union Official working "for the bucks" & breaking all minimum rest requirements (a precedent the Company would love to establish) on a National Union Day of Protest -has to come very close to being right down there with our well known colleagues who decided to work on our Stop Work Day back in Feb. 2004. The gentleman in question should do the right & honourable thing.........
It would not surprise me in the least if I shortly get a memo from the FAAA announcing PERFORMANCE BONUSES for the union execs if they get us our crew rest seats back or an allownace increase.....the lines between Management & Union are becoming blurred.....is the memebership just "grooming" more future Cabin Crew Manangement- in -waiting?
meanwhile back at the Lotus Land of the FAAA - why would you move out of Sussex St -the home of Unionism in Australia - the real power base where its easy to physically cross paths with some of the most powerful union reps in Aust - why do you leave network central and spend $900,000 of hard earned members fees on a office in the Mascot burbs??? (Even Qantas Management has realised the absurdity of basing its operaions in over priced Sydney)
When will the FAAA realise that it doesn't just represent the senior & selfish of The Shire?
And just quietly - I still reckon a Senior Union Official working "for the bucks" & breaking all minimum rest requirements (a precedent the Company would love to establish) on a National Union Day of Protest -has to come very close to being right down there with our well known colleagues who decided to work on our Stop Work Day back in Feb. 2004. The gentleman in question should do the right & honourable thing.........
It would not surprise me in the least if I shortly get a memo from the FAAA announcing PERFORMANCE BONUSES for the union execs if they get us our crew rest seats back or an allownace increase.....the lines between Management & Union are becoming blurred.....is the memebership just "grooming" more future Cabin Crew Manangement- in -waiting?
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If one of our senior elected officials decides to forego his minimum rest and at the same time sets a precedent then what hope do we have of formulating a strategy for our next EBA and all of this on a day that is supposed to be a day of protest against the new IR laws.
I’m sure it would have been noted in the office that he did not attend the march and instead wanted to go to work in his rest break…what sort of message do you think that sends to the company especially as he is a senior union official.
The company knows that we give into blackmail and threats so get ready with the lubricant ….I hope everyone was watching Darth on the ABC Sunday business program today.Strap yourselves in for one heck of a bumpy ride especially with Ben Dover and rollover Reed leading us…
I’m sure it would have been noted in the office that he did not attend the march and instead wanted to go to work in his rest break…what sort of message do you think that sends to the company especially as he is a senior union official.
The company knows that we give into blackmail and threats so get ready with the lubricant ….I hope everyone was watching Darth on the ABC Sunday business program today.Strap yourselves in for one heck of a bumpy ride especially with Ben Dover and rollover Reed leading us…
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The FAAA moved from sussex street to Mascot to be near the members and save 100000 plus a year in rent.
Just so that the luminaries in here who purport to actually know something,,most of the unions are now closer to their members trying to be relevant to the people that count ..the workers on the tools.
Lowerlobe and lurker the TWU moved out of the buildin they own that the FAAA rented and moved closer to their workers as has most of the union movement.
The powerbrokers in the Labor council are more relvant to the chinese restaurant in suzzex street than they are to the average workers in NSW. The trouble with the labout movement is that almost no labor politician has ever had a real job like being a flight attendant.
Most of them have either worked for a politician or a union. And most of their staffers have not had a job outside of the party, the public servce or a union.
The FAAA for whats its worth is regarded as one of the best grass roots unions in the country. It may be small but the leadership is more accesible than any other union in the country and that is the previous leadership and the current.
I think its about time that ppl in here stopped FAAA bashing. Despite all the critisism, while 470 engineers and potentially more will be made compulsorily redundant...no flight attendants have been
Just so that the luminaries in here who purport to actually know something,,most of the unions are now closer to their members trying to be relevant to the people that count ..the workers on the tools.
Lowerlobe and lurker the TWU moved out of the buildin they own that the FAAA rented and moved closer to their workers as has most of the union movement.
The powerbrokers in the Labor council are more relvant to the chinese restaurant in suzzex street than they are to the average workers in NSW. The trouble with the labout movement is that almost no labor politician has ever had a real job like being a flight attendant.
Most of them have either worked for a politician or a union. And most of their staffers have not had a job outside of the party, the public servce or a union.
The FAAA for whats its worth is regarded as one of the best grass roots unions in the country. It may be small but the leadership is more accesible than any other union in the country and that is the previous leadership and the current.
I think its about time that ppl in here stopped FAAA bashing. Despite all the critisism, while 470 engineers and potentially more will be made compulsorily redundant...no flight attendants have been
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and just a further thought..
While FAAA officials may infringe MBT from time to time or vote to take reduced slips...members would be better concerned with FAAA officials who have run businesses out of the FAAA office and used leave bank for personal reasons or used the flight attendants car park as a car rental lot for their business while at the same time whinging to Qantas about the lack of parking for flight attendants.
I have seen a lot of hyprocracy over the last 25 years or so and i am more concerend about the officials who forged other elected officials signatures or officials that used leave bank to play golf than i am in someone who didnt attend a meeting where there were more union officials than flight attendants.
reality check dodo's ....is it any wonder that the senior officials who comprise the 12 member FAAA exec dont share with the likes of Lowerlobe their working papers or strategies..it would be plastered all over here for QAntas and the media to see.
I am sick of our own members being the fifth column in our ranks. The real danger is the loose lips in here. Qantas management read this. and every time they see the level of total stupidity it strengthen their resolve to replace us with kiwi's and casuals.
Anyone that wants to make a difference and has an idea contact the FAAA and talk to them dont waste your time in here where the whole world gets to read the ideas
While FAAA officials may infringe MBT from time to time or vote to take reduced slips...members would be better concerned with FAAA officials who have run businesses out of the FAAA office and used leave bank for personal reasons or used the flight attendants car park as a car rental lot for their business while at the same time whinging to Qantas about the lack of parking for flight attendants.
I have seen a lot of hyprocracy over the last 25 years or so and i am more concerend about the officials who forged other elected officials signatures or officials that used leave bank to play golf than i am in someone who didnt attend a meeting where there were more union officials than flight attendants.
reality check dodo's ....is it any wonder that the senior officials who comprise the 12 member FAAA exec dont share with the likes of Lowerlobe their working papers or strategies..it would be plastered all over here for QAntas and the media to see.
I am sick of our own members being the fifth column in our ranks. The real danger is the loose lips in here. Qantas management read this. and every time they see the level of total stupidity it strengthen their resolve to replace us with kiwi's and casuals.
Anyone that wants to make a difference and has an idea contact the FAAA and talk to them dont waste your time in here where the whole world gets to read the ideas
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Agreed.
Most of Bad Adventures post isn't accurate at all.
Sick leave isn't especially high at all and the base manager has never threatened anyone with the sack for sick leave.
As for the claim that most of the Australian's who transferred want to go home - I think there certainly is a number who want to go home. London doesn't agree with everyone.
Yet again, I state the simple fact - if you want to know about the base in London ask the people working up here, we've nothing to gain by being untruthful about it.
Most of Bad Adventures post isn't accurate at all.
Sick leave isn't especially high at all and the base manager has never threatened anyone with the sack for sick leave.
As for the claim that most of the Australian's who transferred want to go home - I think there certainly is a number who want to go home. London doesn't agree with everyone.
Yet again, I state the simple fact - if you want to know about the base in London ask the people working up here, we've nothing to gain by being untruthful about it.