frank foxworth

Hawky,


After 13 years of the idiotic "change is progress" school of management ,any suggestion of alteration to the current system will be viewed with scepticism and dread by the rank and file .

I would think that change , of any description is poison in the current climate.
The troops are burnt out.

The minute QF either suggest , endorse, talk up or promote ANY change to this system and the ghost of changes past,none for the betterment of F/A's will come back to haunt them AND you.
And righfully so.
If QF endorse it, it will only be in their interest.
Conversely - against your interest.

So beware.

The troops will wisely run a mile.

hawke eye

Franky,
unfortunately i believe you are absolutely right. I appreciate your views even if I dont like them. I know the truth when I hear it.
Simon,
ever heard of principle. this was never about a small bunch of disgruntled employees. look up what discrimination means. Look up what equality and fairness is. No doubt your a member of George Orwells animal farm and the ethos of who is equal.

Simon Templar

Here we are in the 21st Century and Hawkeye believes in Equality.
There is no such thing.
If there was we would all have the same education,all earn the money,all have the same coloured eyes,all have the same religion.
Life is about differences,not equality.
Its about how you deal with these inequities.
You keep pushing this piddly little barrow because your life revolves minutae.
There are more important issues at hand.
The effects of the new industrial relations legislation for example.
You think one little survey will make your life better.
Get a grip sunshine.
Go and talk to Lesley Grant and if you get no joy then talk to Dixon.
You talk to your mates, who don't fly, about your problem.
They will laugh in your face.
Inequality and discrimination have been here forever and they ain`t going away in your lifetime

Bad Adventures

Don't know what you're all carrying on about? The preferential bidding system will terminate at the end of the current EBA. It’s already been decided. By the way this is also the final EBA.

P.S Don't shoot the messenger!

Le 3rd Homme

Have I missed something?
How do you know this?
It has been decided by whom?

lowerlobe

With all this talk especially Nostradamus (bad adventures) telling us that the EBA is finished we as well as most media missed the creative accounting exercise carried out by Qantas and in particular Darth Dixon.

Darth faced the media with his usual doom and gloom and told everyone that profit for the first half of the financial year was down 9.6%.

Not one of the media pointed out that if you took into account the re-structuring fee of $69.6 million and a one off release of accounting provisions of $52.1 million the group profit actually increased.

While everyone is fighting over aspects of the job and this includes tech crew as well ,Darth again gets away with his fabricated oratory designed to achieve his aim of destroying any organized work force.

The Qantas unions including the faaa should be calling media interviews pointing out the holes in Darths arguments because if not halted he will destroy all of our work entitlements to give himself his much wanted bonus as well as driving another Australian icon into the ground (no pun intended) .

The seniority issue is an important one but we have to look at the big picture of management using any excuse to reduce the size and conditions of the Australian workforce by stealth.

The company would like nothing more than ridding themselves of the seniority issue,if we remove bidding by seniority then the company will argue that seniority is also discriminatory to holidays and every other aspect of the job.Let’s look at refining the bid system not dismantling it.

The problems with most unions including the faaa is that they are not proactive instead they are only reactive and as such our next EBA will be an interesting one.

It doesn’t really surprise me that the media don’t point out any flaws in the dark sides press conference because they all want their free trips .

cart_elevator

Is it just me (not been qantas as long as most on here) or is it odd ...

Everyone knows that the GM cabin crew has resigned, but the company has not put out anything official?

Or have I missed something?

The last airline I worked for was very up front about these things. It was stated to the affected employees as soon as they knew. Everyone knows here, but there has been no notice on cabin crew website etc.

cartexchange

yes you're right Cart elevator no electronic news has been sent to flight attendants.
All CSS's and CSM's have been sent an email advising them of the resignation and the changes.
Leslie Grant has announced that Alison Webster has been promoted to the new position.
Her position is currently vacant, I hope they don't promote the Kiwi sociopath to that position.
The email was boring and full of bull**** as usual, instead of worrying about getting an official response why don't you start celebrating, Kylie is gone and that is good news, IT was an integral part of having all Australian based cabin crews conditions eroded, he leaves a legacy of destruction and disappointment, he was instrumental in leaving a demoralized workforce.
Good riddance.

cartexchange

On another note,
I noticed in the cabin crew BS news that the Thais and Japan based crew that worked on Christmas day have been given a $30.00 DJ voucher.
What the farrk for! they don't celebrate Xmas, its not a public holiday in their country its just a normal working day, they Thais and Japanese aren't Christians so why bloody give them the voucher it means nothing to them.
Giving the voucher to AKL base and MAM casuals makes sense but not the others.
The directive was issued by Suzanne Holden the one that came up with the money saving idea to sell our crew rest seats, does she want to save money or not! maybe she thinks that Christmas is celebrated all around the world.

ozskipper

I think that the issue of paying at $30 voucher to only some crew would have been seen as discriminatory. After all, we are an Australian airline and we expect the Thais & Japanese to speak english onboard so why should they miss out on what the other bases get. (Before anyone fires off, I know the BKK base is an Adecco base, not a subsidiary, but I think that's beside the point).

For interest - the LHR base did not get vouchers as they had a subsidised Xmas party. Whether you wanted or were able to go is another issue

cartexchange

discriminatory= that is absolute crap!

Its discriminatory that management get huge bonuses when we make a profit and the employees that made that profit get nothing.
Oh sorry I take that back, according to Darth we should be grateful that we have our jobs.

qcc2

since the top layer has been restructured one can assume that the ripples come down all the way to the visitors. more empty spaces coming up at qcc1, thats my bet.

lowerlobe

Pegasus,Eden,Guardian and other FAAA officials…

How about the faaa call a series of meetings to discuss with the membership any plans or ideas to make QF L/H cabin crew more cost effective before our EBA expires and before Darth comes up with any ideas of his own..

Or is that being too proactive for the faaa

Or are these ideas too top secret to discuss with those who elect you…

Plus is it too much to ask why information about management leaving not important enough to put on the faaa website and why is there the facility for a password on the website when anyone can look at the newsletters without one…

cartexchange

lower lobe what you are saying makes sense,
but according to another post..they are too busy at the moment discussing their next reelection strategy.
Word out there is that MM and AS could not bare to go back to flying especially with the new conditions we now have
....occassional crew rest seats.
....very short non arduous JFK shuttles.
....crew being placed on clause 11 for minor infractions and the list goes on.

I want someone to tell me why MM and AS haven't flow for years, and I mean years, WHY, they don't have to be in the office every day!
Come on get out there and have a look, see what your membership is doing , then you may be more passionate about future strategies in dealing with the MOB in QCA and QCC

Pegasus747

I think the issue of members meetings was canvassed by the faaa at their last set of meetings last year. MM clearly indicated that Long Haul crew would have some tough decisions to make in the next couple of years.

The FAAA Exec have spoken internally about the very things that Lowerlobe has raised and it is clearly on the agenda for this year as already outlined by MM.

The New york dispensation was in many respects a litmus test for Long HAul crew and clearly i believe a message has been sent to the company at the highest levels that the majority of crew are prepared to take a pragmatic look at their cost structure and make decisions on a case by case basis.

if i am correct lowerlobe, you are suggesting that we take a holistic approach rather than a case by case basis and perhaps try work out a longer term stragegy of being competitive with those with a lower cost base who are at the moment circling us and threatening our job security.

Just a Question Lowerlobe?? What is on the table from your perspective and what is off the table?? i would just be interested in your opinion on this one.

Pegasus747

Oh and just rang the FAAA office and raised with them why they dont put out information about changes in Qantas management on their website and was told that they would have to dedicate a full time staff member to keep up with the sackings and hirings of visitors and the like lol

Also the reason that the password is required is for when they conduct ballots that require members to log in and vote or more confidential stuff

Guardian1

Thanks Pegasus for your efforts to continually correct the nonsense posted in here by the likes of lowerlobe and cartexchange.

The FAAA spends considerable resources in terms of meetings and newsletters etc to inform the L/H membership about all the issues that confront us...unlike any other Qantas union.

However, it is clear no matter what efforts the FAAA goes to inform members on issues, some like lowerlobe and cartexchange will never understand or get it.

Maybe it is because cartexchange might be a former FAAA official who was voted out because of incompetence. Also, it is comical to hear lowerlobe talking about "proactivity" and the FAAA calling meetings to discuss making the L/H division more cost effective. Is this the same lowerlobe who hysterically attacked the JFK dispensation which was designed to make the L/H division more cost effective-a measure which actually makes the L/H Division more attractive for QF to use whilst at the same time not causing any loss of conditions- in fact quite the opposite, a measure that gives crew a high income trip, which is now keenly bid for.

The problem with you lowerlobe is that you don't know if you are Arthur or Martha.
As Eden 99 stated earlier, lowerlobe, you are however totally out of step with the vast majority of crew as demonstrated by the resounding YES vote on JFK.

In regards to your statements cartexchange, you too haven't got a clue about what the FAAA does or the complexities that face the senior officials of the FAAA.

For you to make the stupic comments that MM and AS should be flying and not looking after the interests of L/H crew who elected them, indicate your complete lack of understanding of what the FAAA does.

In just the last year the FAAA officials who you criticise have done the following:-

1) completed the complex and difficult AO EBA negotiations.
2) restructured the FAAA to make it more responsive, less costly for the members, more efficient. Reforms that should have been done 10 years ago.
3) Led on the issue of the JFK dispensation, to protect crew from being compulsorily made redundant.
4) Delivered on the promise to buy a permanent office for the FAAA, saving the members $100,000 on rent per year.
5)Restructured the staffing arrangements in the FAAA, saving a further $100, 000 per year.

6) Created a more closer relationship with the Domestic Division of the FAAA, SOMETHING THAT WAS DSTROYED BY THE PREVIOUS INCOMPETENT OFFICIALS.

7) REVERSED THE FAILURES OF EBA6 AS PROMISED.

8) Developed a close working relationship with the new leadership of AIPA(the pilots union).

9) Developing plans to protect the L/H membership from the new industrial legislation.

In addition to all of the above, MM and AS answer all the calls that come in the office every day. I guess, if there was no one to answer calls you caRTEXCHANGE FOR 1 WOULD BE SCREAMING BLUE MURDER.

The FAAA IS a $2.4 million dollar organisation(just the Int Div), the complexities facing all of us are immense. What you are suggesting cartexchange is that MM and AS should treat the FAAA as unimportant and as some part time venture...that they should go out and fly( do cartexchanges like u do) and that the business of the FAAA should come to a halt.

What a true idiot you are. Hopefully you and your mate lowerlobe will stand at the next FAAA elections, identify yourself and let MM shred you like the previous imbeciles.

God gave people brains..... unfortunately some don't use them.

cartexchange

ooooohhhh hit a raw nerve.
typical rhetoric from the FAAA as soon as anyone dares to ask a reasonable question.
Why haven't AS and MM flown in years?
Do you know what it like now out there flying ?
Why do the both of you have to be in SYD at the same time?
Why wont you at least do one trip per roster, just one!

In answer to your post:
1.The AO EBA does not affect me!
2 the restructure of the FAAA does not affect me! if you have made it more cost affective why haven't you reduced the union fees
3 Led the issue on the JFK, dispensation, all you did was put out one view, propaganda, what did you achieve in the end, nothing, there are KIWI crew on the shuttle and QF management saw you for the soft kox that you lot are!
4 delivered an office for us or for YOU! do you think the membership gives a fark!
5 created closer relationship with domestic FAAA,, well have a look at their proposed EBA they haven't even consulted you with the "right of return", if you call that co operation god help us
6 reversed the failures of the EBA6 , well I will have to give you credit there, you are trying on that front!
anyway I could go on and on, but what is the point!
If you bothered to read my previous posts you can see that I have been a strong supported of the FAAA, its just that you folks have to be accountable.
I will give you this, you at least do communicate with the membership, unlike the FAAA domestic.
However guardian you cannot accept any criticism, the minute someone makes a statement against one of your edicts the bolts in your head start
firing off!
Back to my question, WHY aren't you out there flying! get a feeling of what its like, what are you scared of.
By the way I'm not a former FAAA official, I voted for you guys! just do the job and keep your promises and get out there on line! One trip a roster!
7

qfcsm

You know....

The simple reality is that the time to negotiate with QF was way back during the last FAAA executive.
Back then the idea of hard core industrial action was probably not going to achieve much - and it didn't.

Now, the gloves are off and QF have entered the ring with powerful new laws on their side (thanks Howard).

In my humble opinion, the FAAA should insist QF stick to our current EBA provisions - no matter what they threaten.
Please don't yell that the AKL base would have got ALL our LAX trips had we not given the dispensation. The cold reality is that it would not have been sustainable beyond one bid period or two at maximum. Wouldn't have looked much different to the current complement anyhow.

So come on guys - fight the fight when the fight is right!
Protect our current conditions and tell QF they are not negotiable.

Pegasus747

The FAAA has 13 elected officials, all but two fly. The two most senior officials have always been full time right back to the AICCA in 1988.

The fact that every day there are officials online who make up the majority of the faaa council means that there is ample knowledge of what goes on online.

Industrial Relations and running the business of the FAAA is a full time job for the two most senior officials. It provides constant continuity on all issues. Something that the Qantas revolving door management dont have.

I know that as flight attendants we tend to be suspicious of those who have never flown or take ground jobs but in this case i agree with Guardian.

I think we are genuinely verey lucky that there are ppl of the calibre of our current officials dealing with Qantas at this incredibly difficult time and i for one will continue to support them until i have a good reason to do otherwise.