Will Qf Hire From Short List
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Got it...
Hey Guys.....
Yeah, got the call just after I posted on here this morn.....so now, we wait again......
Really don't know what to do - the lovely lady on the other end of the phone was VERY clear in getting the point across that it is VERY unlikely that we will be made permanent or offered anything past the 10 months......IF we are offered anthing at all!
What to do?? Give up a perfectly enjoyable and well paid current flying job so that one can experience a short amount of time in Long Haul (with no staff travel, mind you) and move interstate?
......but who knows - we may be lucky enough to become permanent in March next year.......
Come on insiders (PP!!) - is it worth the risk?
HELP!!
Oz xox
Yeah, got the call just after I posted on here this morn.....so now, we wait again......
Really don't know what to do - the lovely lady on the other end of the phone was VERY clear in getting the point across that it is VERY unlikely that we will be made permanent or offered anything past the 10 months......IF we are offered anthing at all!
What to do?? Give up a perfectly enjoyable and well paid current flying job so that one can experience a short amount of time in Long Haul (with no staff travel, mind you) and move interstate?
......but who knows - we may be lucky enough to become permanent in March next year.......
Come on insiders (PP!!) - is it worth the risk?
HELP!!
Oz xox
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Crazy, crazy goings on...
MS2 has been really busy absorbing 3 new manuals of new procedures, a new aircraft type and it's all learn it now now now!
This is while I'm trying to enjoy the last of my overnights while they exist (sigh!)
As for this whole 10 month contract thing...pfffft! Just changed my staffcv application to say "Permanent" so they get the message. Will it lessen my chances? Right now, with all that's going on in my neck of the woods, I'm too busy to care!
I've heard many rumours, similar to those already posted here. Sadly, nothing positive (that is, anything that can improve on what little hope QF are providing people).
I haven't been called yet, but then I have been flying like mad these past few days. Maybe they don't like my voicemail greeting??!
Busy busy busy...between shortening my 7ft long trousers (apparently we haven't heard of 'hemming' with this uniform), making sure my lapels are as orange as they come ('pull here in emergency') AND inhaling the paint fumes of the crew room (I mean, bright orange walls. Relaxing I don't think).
You probably won't see me for another week. Launch is in T-Minus 7 days...and counting!
MS2 has been really busy absorbing 3 new manuals of new procedures, a new aircraft type and it's all learn it now now now!
This is while I'm trying to enjoy the last of my overnights while they exist (sigh!)
As for this whole 10 month contract thing...pfffft! Just changed my staffcv application to say "Permanent" so they get the message. Will it lessen my chances? Right now, with all that's going on in my neck of the woods, I'm too busy to care!
I've heard many rumours, similar to those already posted here. Sadly, nothing positive (that is, anything that can improve on what little hope QF are providing people).
I haven't been called yet, but then I have been flying like mad these past few days. Maybe they don't like my voicemail greeting??!
Busy busy busy...between shortening my 7ft long trousers (apparently we haven't heard of 'hemming' with this uniform), making sure my lapels are as orange as they come ('pull here in emergency') AND inhaling the paint fumes of the crew room (I mean, bright orange walls. Relaxing I don't think).
You probably won't see me for another week. Launch is in T-Minus 7 days...and counting!
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Since my last post a lot of short haul crew have been speculating on the purpose of a 10 month contract. The most common form is that these fixed term crew will be used as "Strike Breakers" and to fill the void until the new overseas bases are up and running.
QF have plans to only increase international flying and more aircraft so everyone is wondering why only 10 months when the plan is for expansion.
Im sure as a fixed term crew member you can become a member of the FAAA International Division but I'm unsure if you would be protected like permanent crew if it comes to striking therefore putting you between a rock and hard place should this action be taken later in the year.
Also heard yesterday that QF regionals that applied externally WILL NOT be offered fixed term positions any truth to that rumour? If so anyone know why the change in attitude considering QF regionals in the past have been offered fixed term positions with QF.
QF have plans to only increase international flying and more aircraft so everyone is wondering why only 10 months when the plan is for expansion.
Im sure as a fixed term crew member you can become a member of the FAAA International Division but I'm unsure if you would be protected like permanent crew if it comes to striking therefore putting you between a rock and hard place should this action be taken later in the year.
Also heard yesterday that QF regionals that applied externally WILL NOT be offered fixed term positions any truth to that rumour? If so anyone know why the change in attitude considering QF regionals in the past have been offered fixed term positions with QF.
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Two friends of mine both working for subsidiaries of QF ( one regional, one AO ) have both had an offer of a 10month fixed term contract.
Both declined.
My friend told the lovely lady at QF HR this......" so you mean to tell me you have made me wait 14months to offer me a 10month contract ????? "
Of course the QF HR lady was speechless
Both declined.
My friend told the lovely lady at QF HR this......" so you mean to tell me you have made me wait 14months to offer me a 10month contract ????? "
Of course the QF HR lady was speechless
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Just move on!
I cant beleive they have made you all wait so long. If you havent heard anything by now and they constantly telll you to "wait", then I would move on. At the end of the day, your talents will be shining if you were to apply for another airline. Your not the issue here, THEY ARE....
...
All the best.
...
All the best.
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External v's Internal
Im flying for Qantaslink. I was called by HR and offered ( well kinda ) a 10 month contract.
I was then called back a few hours later to be told that because I am in the QF group, I can only be offered permanent work, no contracts. So Im now back on the wait list till May 28th.
I did apply EXTERNALLY, no blue notice, no managers permission. I applied like everyone else off the street so to speak. ( no offence in my wording).
I was always lead to beleive that when I was given a start date by QF, that I then resign from Qantaslink and start a fresh with Qantas. I am sure this has been done before. I def know its been done with Shorthaul. Maybe longhaul is different. Dunno
So my choice was made for me in regards to having to take the risk of accepting the 10 month contract. However I was swaying towards not accepting it anyway.
Anyway thats my little story...just hope I am either kept on file for permy work, or offered it before May 28th.
The plot thickens.......
JONBOY80..... Just moving on is easier said than done. Even after waiting so long on the wait list, I still want to fly for Qantas as much as I did when I first went to the interviews. I just want something more stable than what they can offer us right now. Thats all. I dont think anyone that has declined the offer of a contract would be that "over it" to not accept permanent employment if it was offered.
I wouldnt say that QF have issue's, It's more like they are thinking from a buisness side of it all. Totally accept that, avaiation has changed over the past few years, and thats something that we all have to accept. The days when you were offered permanent employment right from the start are very few and far between. Its all about being cost effective from QF's side of it, but unfortunatley it doesn't always work in our favour.
I was then called back a few hours later to be told that because I am in the QF group, I can only be offered permanent work, no contracts. So Im now back on the wait list till May 28th.
I did apply EXTERNALLY, no blue notice, no managers permission. I applied like everyone else off the street so to speak. ( no offence in my wording).
I was always lead to beleive that when I was given a start date by QF, that I then resign from Qantaslink and start a fresh with Qantas. I am sure this has been done before. I def know its been done with Shorthaul. Maybe longhaul is different. Dunno
So my choice was made for me in regards to having to take the risk of accepting the 10 month contract. However I was swaying towards not accepting it anyway.
Anyway thats my little story...just hope I am either kept on file for permy work, or offered it before May 28th.
The plot thickens.......
JONBOY80..... Just moving on is easier said than done. Even after waiting so long on the wait list, I still want to fly for Qantas as much as I did when I first went to the interviews. I just want something more stable than what they can offer us right now. Thats all. I dont think anyone that has declined the offer of a contract would be that "over it" to not accept permanent employment if it was offered.
I wouldnt say that QF have issue's, It's more like they are thinking from a buisness side of it all. Totally accept that, avaiation has changed over the past few years, and thats something that we all have to accept. The days when you were offered permanent employment right from the start are very few and far between. Its all about being cost effective from QF's side of it, but unfortunatley it doesn't always work in our favour.
Last edited by cloud nine; 19th May 2004 at 02:56.
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mmmmm interesting !! Things happening!!
Well not long to go before our fate hard work and waiting will come to an end. Next Friday is around the corner. Its interesting though that QF HR have contacted people externaly but has made NO contact to any internal staff member. I wonder why?? Would it be becouse they are doing a big post of the letters next week to say TA TA or are we going to be extended again or will we be told somthing !! The rumer mill is so big at the moment I could be here all day. All I can say is for us who havent been told anything is to remain calm and not belive anything until we wither get a call or get somthing in black and white. Until then we have to be positve !! Any internals heard of any other internal been contacted ??? I belive good things will happen !!! stay tuned !!
Well not long to go before our fate hard work and waiting will come to an end. Next Friday is around the corner. Its interesting though that QF HR have contacted people externaly but has made NO contact to any internal staff member. I wonder why?? Would it be becouse they are doing a big post of the letters next week to say TA TA or are we going to be extended again or will we be told somthing !! The rumer mill is so big at the moment I could be here all day. All I can say is for us who havent been told anything is to remain calm and not belive anything until we wither get a call or get somthing in black and white. Until then we have to be positve !! Any internals heard of any other internal been contacted ??? I belive good things will happen !!! stay tuned !!
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Hi Everyone
I am an external shortlister and I too received a call from QF HR and has been offered same as everyone else thus far. I have accepted the potential offer hoping for 10 months I will gain some wonderful experiences. However, if I had a great full time airline job like Cloud Nine, I would not hesitate in declining the offer. We all have to prioritise our needs and work out what is most important to us.
The one problem I would have is if QF was to use crew on contracts to be 'strike breakers' as Galley Hag suggested. Let's just hope it won't get to that.
I just wish that the whole dragged out saga ends sooner than later and both internal and external shortlisters can have a positive outcome.
Keep the faith everyone!
The one problem I would have is if QF was to use crew on contracts to be 'strike breakers' as Galley Hag suggested. Let's just hope it won't get to that.
I just wish that the whole dragged out saga ends sooner than later and both internal and external shortlisters can have a positive outcome.
Keep the faith everyone!
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Does anybody know how many people remain on this shortlist? And any ideas how many staff QF is looking to put on?
The reasoning behind my question is that there are people not from the shortlist (myself included) who are keen to try and work out if there might be any jobs left over after the first right of refusal goes to all the shortlisters.
JB
The reasoning behind my question is that there are people not from the shortlist (myself included) who are keen to try and work out if there might be any jobs left over after the first right of refusal goes to all the shortlisters.
JB
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Well - they didn't forget about ME!
QF HR called me this morning to ask me firstly did I work for Impulse/Jetstar or Virgin. Strange considering there isn't a hint on my application that I work, or have worked, for Virgin.
I replied Impulse/Jetstar.
The response was as follows:
"OK...um...ahhh...so you're already employed by the Qantas Group.
We were just checking who you worked for. Um...ahhh...um....that's okay.
Just needed to confirm that detail. Don't know why we thought you worked for Virgin.
Okay...um...just disregard this call then, okay?"
So...reading between the um's and the ahh's here, it would appear they were on the VERGE (oh yes, the verge) of asking me to join the 10-month contract list...BUT WERE STOPPED! YES - held back by the fact that I'm in the same position as Cloud Nine (with ya girl!)
I now return to learning my A320 drills and equipment, secure in the fact that when all around me looks like crap for the QF shortlist, I at least have a permanent full time flying job like Cloudy!
OH yes - we're not moving till we're offered permanent!
QF HR called me this morning to ask me firstly did I work for Impulse/Jetstar or Virgin. Strange considering there isn't a hint on my application that I work, or have worked, for Virgin.
I replied Impulse/Jetstar.
The response was as follows:
"OK...um...ahhh...so you're already employed by the Qantas Group.
We were just checking who you worked for. Um...ahhh...um....that's okay.
Just needed to confirm that detail. Don't know why we thought you worked for Virgin.
Okay...um...just disregard this call then, okay?"
So...reading between the um's and the ahh's here, it would appear they were on the VERGE (oh yes, the verge) of asking me to join the 10-month contract list...BUT WERE STOPPED! YES - held back by the fact that I'm in the same position as Cloud Nine (with ya girl!)
I now return to learning my A320 drills and equipment, secure in the fact that when all around me looks like crap for the QF shortlist, I at least have a permanent full time flying job like Cloudy!
OH yes - we're not moving till we're offered permanent!
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Well it seems reading this forum that they have jsut about gone throught he whole list of external perople ! I do wonder however if you applied as an external why they wouldnt treat you like one like you Mr Seatback 2 and cloud nine !! Why would they care and isnt the choice yours at the end of the day even if you did want to take out a contract !! Strange ... Guys why do you think that might be the case ..Even more strange asking you if you work for Virgin!! I guess they would have called a few people and the shortlisters that appled externaly might have also appled with the Virgin Group and have started with them but still remain on the short list!! Like at the end of the day not sure why it matters, surley you got on the shortlist becouase they want what you have got. mmmm dont understand!! Can anybody shed any light on this ongoing DRAMA !!
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Oh My God!
What on earth is going on with these ppl??
Firstly, when they called me, I WASN'T asked where I currently worked (but I AM now flying full-time - I wasn't when I was initially placed on the shortlist) - but I HAVE changed my StaffCV profile to indicate that I am now flying and no longer working in the profession that I was in November 2002. So why I wasn't asked the same question, I don't know........
Secondly, I know of several ppl on the shorlist who are NOT internals (all flying with different airlines) who HAVEN'T been called as yet.......
Strange, strange happenings......I guess all will be revealed in the next few days.
Keep us updated folks - let's see if we can work this thing out!
Oz xox
Firstly, when they called me, I WASN'T asked where I currently worked (but I AM now flying full-time - I wasn't when I was initially placed on the shortlist) - but I HAVE changed my StaffCV profile to indicate that I am now flying and no longer working in the profession that I was in November 2002. So why I wasn't asked the same question, I don't know........
Secondly, I know of several ppl on the shorlist who are NOT internals (all flying with different airlines) who HAVEN'T been called as yet.......
Strange, strange happenings......I guess all will be revealed in the next few days.
Keep us updated folks - let's see if we can work this thing out!
Oz xox
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well, if you think about it QANTASTIC, it would cost the Qantas Group more money to hire an internal for a once-off ten month contract than an external.
If they put a Jetstar f/a (or another internal staff member) onto this contract, they not only have to pay for the training/ uniform/admin of that contractor, but the Group also has to pay to replace the internal, with another employee. So they are in effect emplying two people (with all the associated costs). And paying the costs all for one employee that will be with them for only ten months.
If an internal goes to a full-time position within flying, they still pay the costs of replacing them, but it is a better investment as they are getting a full-time employee, who will presumably work for years to come.
If they give the contract to an external applicant, then they are only paying to employ that person, as it doesnt create a vacancy in another part of the group.
Just myn personal view of the situation !
If they put a Jetstar f/a (or another internal staff member) onto this contract, they not only have to pay for the training/ uniform/admin of that contractor, but the Group also has to pay to replace the internal, with another employee. So they are in effect emplying two people (with all the associated costs). And paying the costs all for one employee that will be with them for only ten months.
If an internal goes to a full-time position within flying, they still pay the costs of replacing them, but it is a better investment as they are getting a full-time employee, who will presumably work for years to come.
If they give the contract to an external applicant, then they are only paying to employ that person, as it doesnt create a vacancy in another part of the group.
Just myn personal view of the situation !
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I received a letter from QF the end of Mar. saying that "im out of list after I was on the shortlist over 1 year and 8months"
But i got a call from QF this morning if Im still interested in working with QF (10monts contract or something...)
Are they kidding me??? Who do they think they are?
They interviewed us when there is no job going on and made us spend a lot of money as if we all got in.
I almost quit my job after I made the final interview(lucky I didnt)
Not everyone is expert like you guys on here.
(I dont know anyone from QF, and it was my first interview with QF)
what is this short list stuff??
after I gave them my updetate detail a few times, they still sent me letters with no contact number to my old address.
I found my letter from QF in the bin next my mail box.
This is so disorganized.
Well, I think people here are too nice.
I guess I was the same untill I got cut...
When I think about all the stuff we did. (effort, time, money etc)
I waited long enough, I dont deserve to be treated like this.
I am not interested in working for compny like this.
if its like this in the interview process, just imajine working with them.... Get real QF
Well, this is only my opinion...
Hope you guys will get whatever you after. Good luck.
But i got a call from QF this morning if Im still interested in working with QF (10monts contract or something...)
Are they kidding me??? Who do they think they are?
They interviewed us when there is no job going on and made us spend a lot of money as if we all got in.
I almost quit my job after I made the final interview(lucky I didnt)
Not everyone is expert like you guys on here.
(I dont know anyone from QF, and it was my first interview with QF)
what is this short list stuff??
after I gave them my updetate detail a few times, they still sent me letters with no contact number to my old address.
I found my letter from QF in the bin next my mail box.
This is so disorganized.
Well, I think people here are too nice.
I guess I was the same untill I got cut...
When I think about all the stuff we did. (effort, time, money etc)
I waited long enough, I dont deserve to be treated like this.
I am not interested in working for compny like this.
if its like this in the interview process, just imajine working with them.... Get real QF
Well, this is only my opinion...
Hope you guys will get whatever you after. Good luck.
Last edited by QFshort30; 20th May 2004 at 08:10.
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SHOCKING
QFSHORT30.... All I can say its amazing !! I am just amazed !! Just when I think I have heard it all.. I read this !! I cant belive you were on the short list for 18 months then got a thanks but no thanks and then they call you today to ask you if you would like to work for 10 months !! I hope you voiced your thoughts because I dont think what happend to you is good at all. It realy gives the company a bad name.. So did they explain to you why they are calling you after they said you were out of the picture?? I have a feeling that they are getting a lot of people saying NO to the 10 month contract therefore they are running out of people who the can call so they thought they would try their luck with you guys !! sad isnt it!! I have heard if anybody does take this 10 month contract they WILL NOT get any extention nor will they be made full time !! I hope they dont get a lot of interest and maybe they will call you next time and ask you if you would like a full time positions!! I would if I was you write a letter of complaint to the General manager of Humen resources and explain everything.. I am sure they would be shocked what has happend as I belive they right hand dosent know what the left hand is doing !! I bet they would be surprised with your letter and if they get more letters they will maybe think about how they treat people with interviews !! Go fo it !! You have nothing to loose !! See what response they give you !! Lucky you didnt leave your job!!
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Guys, Listen. Just move one. Dont u understand. They will NOT HIRE you and if they do it will be for a pissy 10 months. Cant you guys respect yourselves?. I have read every post (nearly) on this topic and its all negative. Why bother joinining an airline who tell you "congrats welcome to qantas, you have made it but your on our shortlist we MIGHT contact your in 18months, thanks". Pathetic. QFshort30 at least you have seen the light and can realise what a disorganised airline this is
STRIKE-BREAKERS eh!! If that is the rumour among shorthaulers does that confirm their intention to strike? Or do they think the company expects industrial action and are just covering their bases?
I am a little confused, and I must say if there is industrial action I fail to see the point of it given;
1. How easily you are going to replaced in the short term,
2. The state of the industry right now. You would want to be very secure in your position if you are thinking about striking.
What a deplorable state of affairs. QF are just showing their contempt for people who are investing their own time, money and effort in actually wanting to be a part of this group.
I have to concur with JonBoy80. I would be extremely surprised if anything permanent is ever offered straight off the bat. If you aren't prepared to take a contracted term i think your long term prospects are futher reduced. Why would QF invest time and money hiring one group, who did what the company asked of them, yet 10 months down the track brush them aside and hire a fresh load of recruits for a permanent spot, all of whom may have rejected a prior offer? Sound ludicrous? Probably because it is. Whilst it wouldnt surprise me to see some of those who take this deal end up on the F/A scrap heap in 10 months time, unfortunately I really think your only shot at a full time and permanent job with QF is to have whatever contract you may be on extended. If that sits well with you, good on you for trying and I wish you luck. If it doesnt you better start applying to someone else. I dont think AN hired any F/A's full time in their last few years (non casuals) and that was pre 9/11, pre war and pre sars.
Being positive is commendable, being realistic can be a little harder.
I am a little confused, and I must say if there is industrial action I fail to see the point of it given;
1. How easily you are going to replaced in the short term,
2. The state of the industry right now. You would want to be very secure in your position if you are thinking about striking.
What a deplorable state of affairs. QF are just showing their contempt for people who are investing their own time, money and effort in actually wanting to be a part of this group.
I have to concur with JonBoy80. I would be extremely surprised if anything permanent is ever offered straight off the bat. If you aren't prepared to take a contracted term i think your long term prospects are futher reduced. Why would QF invest time and money hiring one group, who did what the company asked of them, yet 10 months down the track brush them aside and hire a fresh load of recruits for a permanent spot, all of whom may have rejected a prior offer? Sound ludicrous? Probably because it is. Whilst it wouldnt surprise me to see some of those who take this deal end up on the F/A scrap heap in 10 months time, unfortunately I really think your only shot at a full time and permanent job with QF is to have whatever contract you may be on extended. If that sits well with you, good on you for trying and I wish you luck. If it doesnt you better start applying to someone else. I dont think AN hired any F/A's full time in their last few years (non casuals) and that was pre 9/11, pre war and pre sars.
Being positive is commendable, being realistic can be a little harder.
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Jonboy
With respect - I think we're possibly old enough to make our own minds up as to how we see our careers moving (or not moving) forward.
Your views on Qantas are valid and completely understandably however many of us have invested an incredible amount of time and effort in our application to Qantas and its not a case of moving on. I think it would be fair to say that may of the applicants here have a particular desire to work for Qantas and simply moving isn't really an option. If I were just looking for a airline job I would have applied to many different potential employers, however I particularly want to work for Qantas. I like the product, the potential future career advancement and I even like the aircraft in service. Now thats not taking away from the other carriers and the excellent job their employee's do - it's just not what I'm looking for.
I've spent a considerable amount of time considering my position (read soul searching!) and whether it would be a worthwhile exercise to take up a 10 month contract, if its offered at all. Sure, 10 months isn't what I was ultimately looking for, however its an opportunity to experience what I've been looking for and if it only turns out to be 10 months - well thats better than not experiencing it at all.
I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that Qantas is considered to be an employer of choice and its a business. They owe us nothing ultimately until we're actually employee's.
I hope this provides some insight as to my motives and perhaps the motives of some of the other prooners.
With respect - I think we're possibly old enough to make our own minds up as to how we see our careers moving (or not moving) forward.
Your views on Qantas are valid and completely understandably however many of us have invested an incredible amount of time and effort in our application to Qantas and its not a case of moving on. I think it would be fair to say that may of the applicants here have a particular desire to work for Qantas and simply moving isn't really an option. If I were just looking for a airline job I would have applied to many different potential employers, however I particularly want to work for Qantas. I like the product, the potential future career advancement and I even like the aircraft in service. Now thats not taking away from the other carriers and the excellent job their employee's do - it's just not what I'm looking for.
I've spent a considerable amount of time considering my position (read soul searching!) and whether it would be a worthwhile exercise to take up a 10 month contract, if its offered at all. Sure, 10 months isn't what I was ultimately looking for, however its an opportunity to experience what I've been looking for and if it only turns out to be 10 months - well thats better than not experiencing it at all.
I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that Qantas is considered to be an employer of choice and its a business. They owe us nothing ultimately until we're actually employee's.
I hope this provides some insight as to my motives and perhaps the motives of some of the other prooners.
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Strikebreakers
Qantas HR appear extremely disorganised when it comes to hire on new crew, but this is borne from other depts. flight planning, ops etc. who decide on new routes/extra flights at the last minute. HR are then left to fill vacancies but company directives to 'right size' mean they have to be careful not to hire crew who may not be needed later on.
The contract situation is perfect for QF. Offer 10 months and if things are looking good at the end of it you might be kept on. If you aren't kept on at least its good experience to have on your resume.
I took the gamble a few years ago and accepted a 6 month contract with QF. At the end of the contract I was made permanent. Some people were not, I don't know how the company decided who they kept but I feel it was more a numbers game and they didn't look into performance when making the decision.
The company are extremely short of crew at the moment. They have asked crew to cancel leave and in short haul they have asked people to volunteer to work on their days off with a guarantee of 8hrs IPD (time and a half) pay whether you work or not. The company's official line is that they are short due to unplanned flying and crew courses but I read that as 'we got the numbers wrong again due to lack of foreplanning'.
The company also have to allow SH crew to drop hours and I don't think they had factored in how many people would drop to 65hrs and leave heaps of flights uncrewed. The casual crew were hired to fill this 'open time' but they still don't have enough people to cover it.
34R - Actually I think you will find it long haul crew who are heading for industrial action. The company are planning to open a London base in 2005 and this would mean a huge change in our flying patterns. We have Auckland and Bangkok based crew already so a London base would devastating for Australian based crew, in particular junior crew who can only get London trips.
The plan so far is to have the London based crew operate Heathrow to Asia (Singapore, Bangkok, Shanghai, Mumbai) and have Australian crew operating up to Asia. The cost savings for the company would be no overnights in London so saving money on hotels and allowances which have to be paid in UK Pounds.
The problem with this is that Junior Australian crew need LHR trips in order to make a liveable salary. The fact is you just can't live on the base wage in Sydney / Melbourne.
To save costs in London the crew will not work for QF but for a labour company (Similar to The Kiwi and Thai crew who actually work for Adecco). QF would not have to pay super / sick pay / provide staff travel etc. so saving a lot of money. Although they would need to pay a substantial base pay for people in London because its just so expensive to live there.
So where would Australian crew fly to? Thai and Kiwi crew already do Jo'Berg, LA, Auckland, Bangkok and Frankfurt.
Our EBA has a limit to the amount of o/s crew and the company is trying to raise this. As much as I hate to say this I think it will end in industrial action and for an extended period of time so it hurts the share price (which is also G. Dixon seems to care about).
I don't want to inconvenience out customers with cancelled flights etc. but why should Australian jobs go o/s? We have to stand up to QF and not let them erode our working conditions.
QF knows industrial action is likely so can use the 10 month contractors as strike breakers. They did this last time LH crew went on strike. QF gave SH casuals 1 day 747 training and then passengered them all over the network (on Virgin Blue, Cathay Pacific, United) so they could operate flights!
I've cut and pasted a recent memo from the FAAA :
-OVERSEAS BASES-
THE FAAA POSITION
Last week I contacted Qantas in relation to the mounting speculation that Qantas was seriously contemplating the opening of additional overseas bases and the employment of more overseas based crew. The speculation centred particularly on the establishment of a London base and the possibility that Qantas will want to remove the current cap restriction on overseas based crew (370).
The Company responded to my queries in similar terms to the newsletter issued by Mark Hassell to you dated 31 March 2004.
The FAAA believes that it is the intention of the Company to establish a London base with approximately between 350-400 cabin crew employed by contract. We further believe that if the base is established that Australian Long Haul crew will not be flying to London.
Let there be no ambiguity, the FAAA will oppose by all means available any attempt by Qantas to remove the 370 cap on overseas-based crew. The manner by which Qantas resolves the Divisional Flying negotiations and the issue of overseas bases will be the litmus test for its likely behaviour in EBA VII negotiations later this year.
The outcome of these two issues will determine the industrial stance that the FAAA leadership will adopt in the coming months. Cabin Crew should be under no illusion that an expansion of overseas based crew is a direct threat to your working conditions and to the ability of Australian based crew to obtain favourable outcomes in future EBA rounds.
The FAAA has had discussions with Shane Enright the Aviation Secretary of the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) about this issue on 26 March and the ITF will assist the FAAA in relation to this issue if required.
I will be writing to you very shortly about further steps that the FAAA will be undertaking in relation to this issue. The FAAA will also ensure that measures are taken to ensure we have sufficient funds on hand to mount a comprehensive campaign against any announcement by Qantas to further expand overseas bases.
The contract situation is perfect for QF. Offer 10 months and if things are looking good at the end of it you might be kept on. If you aren't kept on at least its good experience to have on your resume.
I took the gamble a few years ago and accepted a 6 month contract with QF. At the end of the contract I was made permanent. Some people were not, I don't know how the company decided who they kept but I feel it was more a numbers game and they didn't look into performance when making the decision.
The company are extremely short of crew at the moment. They have asked crew to cancel leave and in short haul they have asked people to volunteer to work on their days off with a guarantee of 8hrs IPD (time and a half) pay whether you work or not. The company's official line is that they are short due to unplanned flying and crew courses but I read that as 'we got the numbers wrong again due to lack of foreplanning'.
The company also have to allow SH crew to drop hours and I don't think they had factored in how many people would drop to 65hrs and leave heaps of flights uncrewed. The casual crew were hired to fill this 'open time' but they still don't have enough people to cover it.
34R - Actually I think you will find it long haul crew who are heading for industrial action. The company are planning to open a London base in 2005 and this would mean a huge change in our flying patterns. We have Auckland and Bangkok based crew already so a London base would devastating for Australian based crew, in particular junior crew who can only get London trips.
The plan so far is to have the London based crew operate Heathrow to Asia (Singapore, Bangkok, Shanghai, Mumbai) and have Australian crew operating up to Asia. The cost savings for the company would be no overnights in London so saving money on hotels and allowances which have to be paid in UK Pounds.
The problem with this is that Junior Australian crew need LHR trips in order to make a liveable salary. The fact is you just can't live on the base wage in Sydney / Melbourne.
To save costs in London the crew will not work for QF but for a labour company (Similar to The Kiwi and Thai crew who actually work for Adecco). QF would not have to pay super / sick pay / provide staff travel etc. so saving a lot of money. Although they would need to pay a substantial base pay for people in London because its just so expensive to live there.
So where would Australian crew fly to? Thai and Kiwi crew already do Jo'Berg, LA, Auckland, Bangkok and Frankfurt.
Our EBA has a limit to the amount of o/s crew and the company is trying to raise this. As much as I hate to say this I think it will end in industrial action and for an extended period of time so it hurts the share price (which is also G. Dixon seems to care about).
I don't want to inconvenience out customers with cancelled flights etc. but why should Australian jobs go o/s? We have to stand up to QF and not let them erode our working conditions.
QF knows industrial action is likely so can use the 10 month contractors as strike breakers. They did this last time LH crew went on strike. QF gave SH casuals 1 day 747 training and then passengered them all over the network (on Virgin Blue, Cathay Pacific, United) so they could operate flights!
I've cut and pasted a recent memo from the FAAA :
-OVERSEAS BASES-
THE FAAA POSITION
Last week I contacted Qantas in relation to the mounting speculation that Qantas was seriously contemplating the opening of additional overseas bases and the employment of more overseas based crew. The speculation centred particularly on the establishment of a London base and the possibility that Qantas will want to remove the current cap restriction on overseas based crew (370).
The Company responded to my queries in similar terms to the newsletter issued by Mark Hassell to you dated 31 March 2004.
The FAAA believes that it is the intention of the Company to establish a London base with approximately between 350-400 cabin crew employed by contract. We further believe that if the base is established that Australian Long Haul crew will not be flying to London.
Let there be no ambiguity, the FAAA will oppose by all means available any attempt by Qantas to remove the 370 cap on overseas-based crew. The manner by which Qantas resolves the Divisional Flying negotiations and the issue of overseas bases will be the litmus test for its likely behaviour in EBA VII negotiations later this year.
The outcome of these two issues will determine the industrial stance that the FAAA leadership will adopt in the coming months. Cabin Crew should be under no illusion that an expansion of overseas based crew is a direct threat to your working conditions and to the ability of Australian based crew to obtain favourable outcomes in future EBA rounds.
The FAAA has had discussions with Shane Enright the Aviation Secretary of the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) about this issue on 26 March and the ITF will assist the FAAA in relation to this issue if required.
I will be writing to you very shortly about further steps that the FAAA will be undertaking in relation to this issue. The FAAA will also ensure that measures are taken to ensure we have sufficient funds on hand to mount a comprehensive campaign against any announcement by Qantas to further expand overseas bases.