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-   -   What Cockpit? (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/547101-what-cockpit.html)

BCMG CAVOK 7th Aug 2020 15:48

Aero Commander L-3805?

Self loading bear 7th Aug 2020 15:56


Originally Posted by BCMG CAVOK (Post 10855477)
Aero Commander L-3805?

This looks like an answer for the the current challenge on Name that flying machine????

Jhieminga 8th Aug 2020 09:57


Originally Posted by BCMG CAVOK (Post 10855477)
Aero Commander L-3805?

It's almost a copy of post #1828. Not a serious guess, surely...?

Self loading bear 8th Aug 2020 10:38

Not from the same country as the Aero
this is a photos of the somewhat lighter version.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e9c1abbf7.jpeg

Self loading bear 10th Aug 2020 08:48

Another clue seems required:

It is a jet-trainer but it is not a jet trainer.

sycamore 10th Aug 2020 11:33

RFB Fantrainer.....OH if correct...

Self loading bear 10th Aug 2020 12:50


Originally Posted by sycamore (Post 10857400)
RFB Fantrainer.....OH if correct...

Exactly!

OH called

Self loading bear 8th Sep 2020 21:06

In order to pull this thread from the dungeons:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....87efc0a31.jpeg
Bonus points for the name of the pilot

sycamore 8th Sep 2020 22:10

Possibly an Emeraude,or Jodel
possibly a `star`,judging by the watch, who has just done his first solo,as his tie has had a `snip`.....

Jhieminga 9th Sep 2020 07:21

I'll go for the bonus points: Reinhard Mey.

ea200 9th Sep 2020 09:45


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 10881280)
I'll go for the bonus points: Reinhard Mey.

Good spot. Probably Wilhelmshaven then. Doesn't look like an Emeraude more like a Jodel coaming. Maybe a D117 or D119.

Self loading bear 9th Sep 2020 19:51

Reinhard Mey is correct.
Wilhelmshafen is then probably also correct as Reinhard did his first solo flight from there and his Tie has been clipped.

Now I need to confess that I do not have the final answer myself on the aircraft.
I have checked the suggestions but up to now I have not found a dashboard that is roughly the same.
The divided dash upper/lower can be found on both suggested makes.
But I have not found pictures of dashboards of which the lower half has an arched extension (downwards) in the middle.

Further clues to search could perhaps be:
The Ball shaped choke/lever on a pin (see shadow)
or the type plate in view in center of the left seat?

So who can help me (us) further on this?



sycamore 9th Sep 2020 20:55

You could email him...?
Could be a SIPA/Gardan

ea200 9th Sep 2020 23:20

I think that might be Wilhelm Tank's Hanger in the background. I have contacts there but I will only resort to that if nothing else turns up. Mey's contact details are available but perhaps not in the spirit of the game? SIPA cockpit pictures are hard to find but the coaming looks the right shape.

Jhieminga 10th Sep 2020 06:58

Better version of the photo here: https://www.swr.de/swr4/bw/musik-eve...9rz/index.html
I would hazard a guess that the shadow of a ball shaped choke/lever is the throttle.

Edit: there's a prominent t-handle at the top left of the panel. Could that be a tow-hook release?

ea200 10th Sep 2020 17:25


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 10882063)
Better version of the photo here: https://www.swr.de/swr4/bw/musik-eve...9rz/index.html
I would hazard a guess that the shadow of a ball shaped choke/lever is the throttle.

Edit: there's a prominent t-handle at the top left of the panel. Could that be a tow-hook release?

Seems an unlikely place for a hook release. The only ones I've come across have been on the floor (C172) or sidewall (Pawnee). The linkage would be somewhat convoluted from where that T handle is and instrument panels don't tend to be that robust. Mind you, I've no idea what else it could be.

Unless of course it's a parking brake?

Self loading bear 10th Sep 2020 22:39


Originally Posted by sycamore (Post 10881866)
You could email him...?
Could be a SIPA/Gardan

The SIPA’s all seem to have a handgrip at the top of the windscreen.
I might drop him an email to get final closure.
For the mean time, it turns out to be a rather good challenge. Keep those suggestions coming!

ea200 10th Sep 2020 22:59

How about an MS 880B. The coaming looks right and I've found a picture showing a T handle in that spot.

Jhieminga 11th Sep 2020 06:57

I read in an interview that he learned to fly with a guy called Uli Cop, who later died in an aerobatic accident. The lead didn't get me anywhere though.

Edit: I had a look at the MS880, I agree that it is most likely this type. The T-handle, the angle of the lower panel with the curve next to the knee, the other levers along the bottom edge all appear to fit. I thought it might be a taildragger but the Rallye also has a bit of a nose up stance on the ground.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7df680fd23.jpg

Self loading bear 11th Sep 2020 17:41


Originally Posted by ea200 (Post 10882734)
How about an MS 880B. The coaming looks right and I've found a picture showing a T handle in that spot.

I think you are correct. I also found some photos of MS 893’s with similar dash.
But that is just a follow up on the MS 880.
EA200 the stage is yours!

ea200 12th Sep 2020 19:09

Sorry for the delay, busy today. I thought it was a taildragger and when I found the Rallye picture I nearly rejected it. When I checked the ground attitude I remembered that nose high stance.
Good challenge. Open house I'm afraid.

Self loading bear 6th Oct 2020 19:19

To pull the thread from the dungeons:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d9cceb37.jpeg

Jhieminga 7th Oct 2020 19:06

Northrop YC-125 Raider, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YC-125_Raider

Self loading bear 7th Oct 2020 19:24

Exactly Jelle!
The Northrop YC-125.

I wondered why this aircraft was under powered?
surely there where larger radial engines available?

Jhieminga 7th Oct 2020 21:04

Thanks SLB! I'll go and search for a new challenge.
Bolting on a different engine is easier said than done. The R-1820s used on the Raider are 1200hp but weigh around 540kg each. Going to a bigger engine would mean either the R-2000, which gives you 1350hp each but at 710kg per engine. A rather modest step up in power. The next one up would be the R-2600 at 1750hp, a nice increase, but weighing in at 930kg each. So each step up means more weight (all figures times three of course) which messes up your payload available and your weight and balance, but also means increased fuel flows to feed those horses, which messes up your range as you most likely can't increase the size of the fuel tanks (and if you do, you're taking another big chunk out of your payload). It's all compromises!

Allan Lupton 7th Oct 2020 21:11


Originally Posted by Self loading bear (Post 10900055)
I wondered why this aircraft was under powered?
surely there where larger radial engines available?

Yes, even some variants of the Wright R1820 were more powerful than the 1200 hp -99 quoted (as were some variants of P&W R1830).

Jhieminga 8th Oct 2020 08:06

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8be254493b.jpg

washoutt 8th Oct 2020 08:12

Not to mention the redesign of the engine mounts

JustinHeywood 8th Oct 2020 08:32


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 10900341)

Nearest I could get was the Junkers G38.
Am I on the right continent at least?

Jhieminga 8th Oct 2020 12:01

I'll make it easy and go with no..... (there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe).

sycamore 8th Oct 2020 18:43

Russian ,or Japanese....?

Jhieminga 8th Oct 2020 19:06

Neither Russian nor Japanese.

India Four Two 9th Oct 2020 03:08


there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe
Argentina?

Jhieminga 9th Oct 2020 06:09

Not Argentina.

JustinHeywood 10th Oct 2020 04:11


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 10900501)
I'll make it easy and go with no..... (there is a link between that continent and the aircraft type, but it was not built or designed in Europe).

Based largely on that clue, its late 20s styling and primitive instrumentation, the most likely suspect I can find is the Fokker F32 - a portly contraption indeed - but I can’t locate a cockpit photo.

Jhieminga 10th Oct 2020 13:46

No need for that, there’s one in post #1867! 😉
You’re up Justin!

JustinHeywood 10th Oct 2020 19:43

https://cezet.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/pzlm-15-9.jpg
In keeping with the “aircraft only a mother could love” theme...

If this has been up before, apologies.

Self loading bear 10th Oct 2020 21:29

I like the lock.
As someone would steel this contraption.

JustinHeywood 11th Oct 2020 00:01


Originally Posted by Self loading bear (Post 10902148)
I like the lock.
As someone would steel this contraption.

I guess it’s more of a gust lock. And yes that is 2 wings through the window;
i.e a biplane

India Four Two 11th Oct 2020 04:59

I thought it had an Eastern European look, but I hadn't spotted the lower wing. That and the bracing strut triggered a vague memory.

There's ugly and then there's the PZL-M15 Belphegor:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2ca9501176.jpg

Several claims to fame according to Wikipedia:

The PZL M-15 is believed to be the world's only jet agricultural aircraft (i.e. the world's only jet crop-duster), the world's only jet biplane and the world's slowest jet
The name is a nickname:

In demonology, Belphegor is a demon, and one of the seven princes of Hell, who helps people make discoveries. He seduces people by suggesting to them ingenious inventions that will make them rich.


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