Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
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... and still the gripes and accusations continue.
Is there any point to all this? I think we've established that everyone believes TVOC are not doing a good job or worse. But could we take that as understood now and move on?
Whatever they're doing, there's nothing we can do about it, so why keep harping-on about their alleged "crimes" and failings?
Only the HLF has sufficient legal and moral grounds to step-in and stop them, and if necessary replace them with other people. Likewise, only HLF has immediate access to huge sums of money. They're the only people that can sort-out this mess so instead of petitions, pointless emails, letters to MP's or anything else, why can't we make an orchestrated effort to campaigh for HLF to stop sitting on their hands and rescue the project, before all their (our) money is completely wasted?
... or do we just want to whine about TVOC until the Vulcan rusts away?
Is there any point to all this? I think we've established that everyone believes TVOC are not doing a good job or worse. But could we take that as understood now and move on?
Whatever they're doing, there's nothing we can do about it, so why keep harping-on about their alleged "crimes" and failings?
Only the HLF has sufficient legal and moral grounds to step-in and stop them, and if necessary replace them with other people. Likewise, only HLF has immediate access to huge sums of money. They're the only people that can sort-out this mess so instead of petitions, pointless emails, letters to MP's or anything else, why can't we make an orchestrated effort to campaigh for HLF to stop sitting on their hands and rescue the project, before all their (our) money is completely wasted?
... or do we just want to whine about TVOC until the Vulcan rusts away?
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I personaly would be interested to hear what the engineers would do to sort things out. Im not out to put any body on the spot i just think that given their greater knowlege of the situation they may be able to steer us in the right direction (in simple terms HELP!!!!) 
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Tim,
I think it's about time you stopped telling us all to stop moaning and venting our anger here on this forum. You have made your point and I respect that, but please stop telling people to 'shut up and do something else'
Whatever anyone does, it will eventually find it's way back to Pleming and Co and they should be encouraged to complain in any manner they feel comfortable with. I have it on fairly good authority that the likes of Dave T, Barry M and the other aircrew all read this forum, and I am confident that between them, they will explain things to Pleming!
Now, if you yourself feel so strongly about the CC, then you should write to them and direct them to PPrune, where they will be able to see at first hand the huge amount of concern, anger and accusations directed at the so-called management of TVOC.
I am sure that if, as you say, they 'have sufficient legal and moral grounds to step-in and stop them' then you should get on to them immediately, and ask them to step in. We don't all need to do that, so you do it on our behalf, and point them in this direction and that of TVOC website/forum and others. I am sure they will then be able to form their own opinion, and guage public opinion on the matter.
In the meantime, please allow those of us who wish to complain, winge, moan, gripe, whatever, do it in a manner and fashion that we are all comfortable with. At the end of the day, we are all doing 'our bit' and we do not deserve criticism from you for that. At least we are doing something, which is more than they are doing at Brunters.
TSM
I think it's about time you stopped telling us all to stop moaning and venting our anger here on this forum. You have made your point and I respect that, but please stop telling people to 'shut up and do something else'
Whatever anyone does, it will eventually find it's way back to Pleming and Co and they should be encouraged to complain in any manner they feel comfortable with. I have it on fairly good authority that the likes of Dave T, Barry M and the other aircrew all read this forum, and I am confident that between them, they will explain things to Pleming!
Now, if you yourself feel so strongly about the CC, then you should write to them and direct them to PPrune, where they will be able to see at first hand the huge amount of concern, anger and accusations directed at the so-called management of TVOC.
I am sure that if, as you say, they 'have sufficient legal and moral grounds to step-in and stop them' then you should get on to them immediately, and ask them to step in. We don't all need to do that, so you do it on our behalf, and point them in this direction and that of TVOC website/forum and others. I am sure they will then be able to form their own opinion, and guage public opinion on the matter.
In the meantime, please allow those of us who wish to complain, winge, moan, gripe, whatever, do it in a manner and fashion that we are all comfortable with. At the end of the day, we are all doing 'our bit' and we do not deserve criticism from you for that. At least we are doing something, which is more than they are doing at Brunters.
TSM
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I personaly would be interested to hear what the engineers would do to sort things out.
Which engineers TVOC or ones on here. Think both myself and Ron have made it clear where we stand.
I have it on fairly good authority that the likes of Dave T, Barry M and the other aircrew all read this forum, and I am confident that between them, they will explain things to Pleming!
... and still the gripes and accusations continue.
Is there any point to all this?
Is there any point to all this?
Last edited by Dis Gruntled; 1st Mar 2008 at 20:49. Reason: misquote
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Latest "project saver" is the online No 10 Petition 
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/VulcanToTheSky/
Not really sure what the UK Gov can or would want to do?
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/VulcanToTheSky/
Not really sure what the UK Gov can or would want to do?
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Hi Vulcan 903,
Not that it will be a "project saver" in any form, but it sure is a step in the right direction in raising the profile of the campaign.
Added to all the other things that seem to be going on and a little more info coming off the TVOC website - perhaps we are finally turning the corner?
Let's just hope it continues to gain momentum and we see 558 doing more Air tests soon.
ONWARDS & UPWARDS!
Not that it will be a "project saver" in any form, but it sure is a step in the right direction in raising the profile of the campaign.
Added to all the other things that seem to be going on and a little more info coming off the TVOC website - perhaps we are finally turning the corner?
Let's just hope it continues to gain momentum and we see 558 doing more Air tests soon.
ONWARDS & UPWARDS!
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Was so looking forward too reading the engineering update on tvoc website I thought at least some mention or answers to the many, many questions raised by people on all the forums, but alas nothing obviously its not just Dr Bob who doesnt pay any attention to the forums. 
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DG,
I hear what you are saying, but it is not Smilers job to answer in Engineering.
Perhaps seeing a news update on the home page is the start of something positive?
We will see
I hear what you are saying, but it is not Smilers job to answer in Engineering.
Perhaps seeing a news update on the home page is the start of something positive?
We will see
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Surely some of the questions were engineering related does he not speak to the people upstairs who say yay or nay on what to post. Please dont try too say that these are unanswerable due to client confidentiality it just will not wash.
Yet again the lack of even a small "yes we realise you all want answers and will do so asap" just reeks of uncaring about the supporters of this project.
Yet again the lack of even a small "yes we realise you all want answers and will do so asap" just reeks of uncaring about the supporters of this project.
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Dave has hit the nail on the head, even if they cant answer the questions asked of them it would do thier image no end of good to simply acknowlege them.
I know offers have been made to keep things on the site updated regularly on a voluntary basis. In sure people are reasonable to understand why the may not be able to respond if given a reason.
I know offers have been made to keep things on the site updated regularly on a voluntary basis. In sure people are reasonable to understand why the may not be able to respond if given a reason.
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This phrase on the current home page seems to partly address that issue:
• Watch this space early next week for continuing regular news updates and major developments with the publicity drive moving forward.
A step in the right direction, I feel. Let's see what transpires.
• Watch this space early next week for continuing regular news updates and major developments with the publicity drive moving forward.
A step in the right direction, I feel. Let's see what transpires.
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DG,
I hear what you are saying, but it is not Smilers job to answer in Engineering.
I hear what you are saying, but it is not Smilers job to answer in Engineering.
Flying signman.
If it isnt the crew chiefs job to answer questions regarding the servicability of the aircraft then whos is it? The tea ladys?
Forgive me for saying this but your begining to sound like a T.V.O.C propaganda machine! Are you employed by them, or represent them and are you a 558 forum member by any chance?
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bubbles.
I thought DG was refering to other general matters with regard the running of TVOC, that's what I was refering to - sorry for any confusion.
With regard to "propaganda", I am a supporter of the Vulcan and obviously still hold the "Glass half full" opinion.
I am entitled to my opinion (as are you) and that is all I am doing with any of my postings.
I thought DG was refering to other general matters with regard the running of TVOC, that's what I was refering to - sorry for any confusion.
With regard to "propaganda", I am a supporter of the Vulcan and obviously still hold the "Glass half full" opinion.
I am entitled to my opinion (as are you) and that is all I am doing with any of my postings.
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Dear Mr Mclelland,
I do not want to appear to br rude but if i want to express my feelings about the tvoc then i will.
Maybe it is about time that some people realised that there are people out there who have put their hearts and souls into the aircraft, have been royally shat on and still the lies and ineptitude go on.
I don't know how much the Trustees know, i think they get told what people want them to hear. The Lottery seem unreachable, Marshalls have their professional stance to maintain and so it feels like the only way people can reach out is to contact the very peolpe who are paying for the project and who pay the wages of those who seem to have the attitude that at the end of the day the good public will bail them out.
Someone needs to put a stop to it so yes, lets find a constructive way to stop the waste but let people to vent their feelings please.
I do not want to appear to br rude but if i want to express my feelings about the tvoc then i will.
Maybe it is about time that some people realised that there are people out there who have put their hearts and souls into the aircraft, have been royally shat on and still the lies and ineptitude go on.
I don't know how much the Trustees know, i think they get told what people want them to hear. The Lottery seem unreachable, Marshalls have their professional stance to maintain and so it feels like the only way people can reach out is to contact the very peolpe who are paying for the project and who pay the wages of those who seem to have the attitude that at the end of the day the good public will bail them out.
Someone needs to put a stop to it so yes, lets find a constructive way to stop the waste but let people to vent their feelings please.
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Flying signman
in your post i quoted you said it wasnt smilers job to update in engineering. how you can be confused escapes me. its fairly clear what dis gruntled is saying. and im glad your optimistic where theres hope etc! all good stuff!
As for the updates on the website fair enougth theres a little more info on donations etc but thats only a small part of the problem. Nobody can deny that there are some pressing issues hanging over T.V.O.C and untill they address these publically then the poor image rumours etc will not go away.
All it would take is for them to acknowlege these issues and if they cannot talk publically about them then explain that at least be seen to listen. And lets face it these are guys ( and ladys! apolagies vickyv) who were involved in the project that are expressing thier concerns and people will listen to them. In short T.V.O.C's efforts are simply nowhere near enough.
in your post i quoted you said it wasnt smilers job to update in engineering. how you can be confused escapes me. its fairly clear what dis gruntled is saying. and im glad your optimistic where theres hope etc! all good stuff!
As for the updates on the website fair enougth theres a little more info on donations etc but thats only a small part of the problem. Nobody can deny that there are some pressing issues hanging over T.V.O.C and untill they address these publically then the poor image rumours etc will not go away.
All it would take is for them to acknowlege these issues and if they cannot talk publically about them then explain that at least be seen to listen. And lets face it these are guys ( and ladys! apolagies vickyv) who were involved in the project that are expressing thier concerns and people will listen to them. In short T.V.O.C's efforts are simply nowhere near enough.
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bubbles,
"Was so looking forward too reading the engineering update on tvoc website I thought at least some mention or answers to the many, many questions raised by people on all the forums"
In DG's earlier post, which I took as meaning other issues with regard to the project.
Confused by me and not having read fully:
"Surely some of the questions were engineering related does he not speak to the people upstairs who say yay or nay on what to post. Please dont try too say that these are unanswerable due to client confidentiality it just will not wash.
Yet again the lack of even a small "yes we realise you all want answers and will do so asap" just reeks of uncaring about the supporters of this project"
Hope that explains......
As I have said myself, we are all awaiting clearer updates on progress with
the project - some are more optimistic than others of "hearing" the right answers.
"Was so looking forward too reading the engineering update on tvoc website I thought at least some mention or answers to the many, many questions raised by people on all the forums"
In DG's earlier post, which I took as meaning other issues with regard to the project.
Confused by me and not having read fully:
"Surely some of the questions were engineering related does he not speak to the people upstairs who say yay or nay on what to post. Please dont try too say that these are unanswerable due to client confidentiality it just will not wash.
Yet again the lack of even a small "yes we realise you all want answers and will do so asap" just reeks of uncaring about the supporters of this project"
Hope that explains......
As I have said myself, we are all awaiting clearer updates on progress with
the project - some are more optimistic than others of "hearing" the right answers.
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Ian
Still cant see whats to confuse about Dis gruntleds post but thats life i guess! interesting use of words that ie optimistic of "hearing" the right answers? i personally would like to hear the truth not what is assumed i want to hear, and im sure alot of people would agree. lol i see we have the return of the winking smilie! is this a hint of you knowing something we dont?
Still cant see whats to confuse about Dis gruntleds post but thats life i guess! interesting use of words that ie optimistic of "hearing" the right answers? i personally would like to hear the truth not what is assumed i want to hear, and im sure alot of people would agree. lol i see we have the return of the winking smilie! is this a hint of you knowing something we dont?
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Good grief - how much do you want to disect a post?
I am after the truth and never implied anything else.
Communication, or the lack of it from TVOC, has brought us to this point.
Let's all hope the next few weeks can be more enlightening as the project seems to be entering a critical stage.
I'm out of here...
I am after the truth and never implied anything else.
Communication, or the lack of it from TVOC, has brought us to this point.
Let's all hope the next few weeks can be more enlightening as the project seems to be entering a critical stage.
I'm out of here...
Last edited by Flying Signman; 3rd Mar 2008 at 08:00.
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Just looked at the tvoc website and apparently Sunday 24th feb till sat 1 st march £9824.00 times 4 does that come too 50-75k.People please stop wasting your hard earned cash.