Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
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Flying Signman
Could you please tell us all what it is exactly that you would like people to do, other than throw money at the project of course?
I know several people and companies that have offered a great deal to the project, from suppliers of products right through to technical experts, but in each and every case their offers are declined without reason, and no one knows why. Why is that? Is it that they are not 'in the click' as far as Bruntingthorpe and TVOC are concerned? Or is it that they are 'better' than some of those in place or is it a simple case that those responsible will be made to look foolish when their limitations and failures are exposed by the 'new blood' ???
I don't have any faith left in the project at all. When I gave money to the project, I understood that it was going to get the aircraft back to airworthiness, not paying the likes of Pleming and Walton and others within the project. Maybe that was naaive on my part, but I'm not alone there I'm sure. The whole project has been run by people who I regard as incompetant and I have said so, often!
This latest begging ransom situation (which we have all heard numerous times) just makes the project look even more dead in the water than it was. However, if you would like to tell us what you want us to do Flying Signman, then I'd be interested to hear from you.
Winco
Could you please tell us all what it is exactly that you would like people to do, other than throw money at the project of course?
I know several people and companies that have offered a great deal to the project, from suppliers of products right through to technical experts, but in each and every case their offers are declined without reason, and no one knows why. Why is that? Is it that they are not 'in the click' as far as Bruntingthorpe and TVOC are concerned? Or is it that they are 'better' than some of those in place or is it a simple case that those responsible will be made to look foolish when their limitations and failures are exposed by the 'new blood' ???
I don't have any faith left in the project at all. When I gave money to the project, I understood that it was going to get the aircraft back to airworthiness, not paying the likes of Pleming and Walton and others within the project. Maybe that was naaive on my part, but I'm not alone there I'm sure. The whole project has been run by people who I regard as incompetant and I have said so, often!
This latest begging ransom situation (which we have all heard numerous times) just makes the project look even more dead in the water than it was. However, if you would like to tell us what you want us to do Flying Signman, then I'd be interested to hear from you.
Winco
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Winco,
I am not aware, as are most here I would guess, of an "instant" fix to this project and the situation it is in.
Yes, we all know the things that have been mentioned in the past and people's reservations over the management, but we are, were we are:
1. Costly to maintain Airworthy Vulcan
2. Worst Recession in 80 years
3. Perceived lack of enthusiasm from the Aviation community
4. Lack of awareness by the general public
5. Restriction on Sponsors and poor marketing conditions.
Now, all I ask is, rather than consistantly "slag" the project off, have a little thought for the dedicated and hard working people behind the scenes who are currently trying to save this project to the benefit of all, by trying to address those very issues.
Change is not going to happen overnight, yet change is happening.
Obviously, the easiest thing for the Trust to do would be to throw in the towel and shut-down. Add to that, the abuse and quite frankly - absurd things that are sometimes discussed here and on other fora - is it any wonder there is little dialogue?
It says something in my book, that they are however, still here and are showing willingness to communicate with the public.
As for knocking Club efforts to raise the profile and money, I can't see any better ideas coming off this forum, so perhaps my major point is this.
GIVE THE TEAM & SUPPORTERS A BREAK! - PUT UP or SHUT UP! (and that is not aimed at anyone)
I was merely trying to solicit members here to actually put themselves in "control" of the project..... then think about what you would do 1st 2nd and 3rd.
Would any of those companies you mention have got the project this far or have made a significant difference? No one knows, but it is sure damn easy to knock anything that is achieved, or perceived not to have been achieved - especially when you are outside looking in.
To me, that is what is doing most harm to this project now, not the "management" currently in place and fighting every possible angle to bring you a displaying aircraft. Someone is writing a private letter to Dr. Pleming. Well done, that is constructive and can only bring respect and I'm sure an answer.
Maybe, just maybe, if more people took that route, than the easier one of posting their gripes here, we would not be feeling so negative all the time.
I liken it to the TV and Newspapers reporting the recession all the time, worsening the situation and depressing everyone - making a bad situation far worse!
Thanks for listening......
FS.
I am not aware, as are most here I would guess, of an "instant" fix to this project and the situation it is in.
Yes, we all know the things that have been mentioned in the past and people's reservations over the management, but we are, were we are:
1. Costly to maintain Airworthy Vulcan
2. Worst Recession in 80 years
3. Perceived lack of enthusiasm from the Aviation community
4. Lack of awareness by the general public
5. Restriction on Sponsors and poor marketing conditions.
Now, all I ask is, rather than consistantly "slag" the project off, have a little thought for the dedicated and hard working people behind the scenes who are currently trying to save this project to the benefit of all, by trying to address those very issues.
Change is not going to happen overnight, yet change is happening.
Obviously, the easiest thing for the Trust to do would be to throw in the towel and shut-down. Add to that, the abuse and quite frankly - absurd things that are sometimes discussed here and on other fora - is it any wonder there is little dialogue?
It says something in my book, that they are however, still here and are showing willingness to communicate with the public.
As for knocking Club efforts to raise the profile and money, I can't see any better ideas coming off this forum, so perhaps my major point is this.
GIVE THE TEAM & SUPPORTERS A BREAK! - PUT UP or SHUT UP! (and that is not aimed at anyone)
I was merely trying to solicit members here to actually put themselves in "control" of the project..... then think about what you would do 1st 2nd and 3rd.
Would any of those companies you mention have got the project this far or have made a significant difference? No one knows, but it is sure damn easy to knock anything that is achieved, or perceived not to have been achieved - especially when you are outside looking in.
To me, that is what is doing most harm to this project now, not the "management" currently in place and fighting every possible angle to bring you a displaying aircraft. Someone is writing a private letter to Dr. Pleming. Well done, that is constructive and can only bring respect and I'm sure an answer.
Maybe, just maybe, if more people took that route, than the easier one of posting their gripes here, we would not be feeling so negative all the time.
I liken it to the TV and Newspapers reporting the recession all the time, worsening the situation and depressing everyone - making a bad situation far worse!
Thanks for listening......
FS.
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Let me enlighten you Tim.
We moderators have a specific job to do which, I for one have been doing for the past 10 years.
Our function is to keep any thread on track and to control each and every poster and contents to ensure it stays within the bounds and rules of PPRuNe.
I can quite see why you think we have an axe to grind but we just don't have one. We try to remain impartial when we monitor posts to ensure their content, their veracity, their intention, signs of a thread hi-jack, when a poster is mis-leading others, or advertising, or making personal attacks, using inappropriate language, off topic posts or using PPRuNe for their own ends all stay within the rules. We can edit a post or delete a post if we deem it be offensive in any way. We can ban a person or persons for any period from one to 7 days or in extreme cases - permanently. This happens infrequently but it does happen and anywhere on PPRuNe, not just here.
Generally, we don't and do not have to give explanations for our actions - or why we take any action to keep a thread viable.
We also ensure that everyone has as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else.
All of PPRuNe is here to enjoy and we are the first to ensure that you can do so.
I hope that is clear.
AH&N Mods
We moderators have a specific job to do which, I for one have been doing for the past 10 years.
Our function is to keep any thread on track and to control each and every poster and contents to ensure it stays within the bounds and rules of PPRuNe.
I can quite see why you think we have an axe to grind but we just don't have one. We try to remain impartial when we monitor posts to ensure their content, their veracity, their intention, signs of a thread hi-jack, when a poster is mis-leading others, or advertising, or making personal attacks, using inappropriate language, off topic posts or using PPRuNe for their own ends all stay within the rules. We can edit a post or delete a post if we deem it be offensive in any way. We can ban a person or persons for any period from one to 7 days or in extreme cases - permanently. This happens infrequently but it does happen and anywhere on PPRuNe, not just here.
Generally, we don't and do not have to give explanations for our actions - or why we take any action to keep a thread viable.
We also ensure that everyone has as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else.
All of PPRuNe is here to enjoy and we are the first to ensure that you can do so.
I hope that is clear.
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Flying Signman
Thank you for your reply. Whilst I don't want to get to the stage that Tim has found himself in (and I do have sympathy for him) the facts remain that this project has NOT ground to a halt because of lack of money. It has found itself where it's at today because of (IMHO) poor management. Infact, management that has been beyond belief at times.
I have never slagged off the project. I have always wished them the best of luck, but luck is simply not enough, and my complaint has always been this managerial attitude of 'I know better than you, therefore I'm not going to listen to you' (or anyone else for that manner)
I myself have written to Pleming on more than one occasion. I know countless other ex Vulcan Pilots and aircrew who have also written to Plemming offering our services; do you think any of us have even so much as received an acknowledgement for our correspondance? Of course not. We haven't had a thing back, either from Pleming or TVOC as a group. That is not poor management, it's NO management!
The reason why there is little dialogue is NOT because of some of the things that are actually said, but it's because Pleming and his team refuse to enter into any discussions whatsoever with the public (he's even said that himself I think somewhere) and thus, when difficult questions get asked by the public, about THEIR money, no answer is offered and people do begin to 'slag them off' as you rightly say. But who is to blame for that do you think??
Now you claim that we should applaud them at Brunters because they are still here and still 'talking with the public' But what else do you expect? I have yet to see anything constructive posted on here or even on their own web site in responce to any form of cricism. Is that 'talking to the public' I think not. It displays an abundance of arrogance on their part that they continue NOT to talk to the public. I regret that, despite persistant requests on PPrune and elsewhere, you won't find any responce from TVOC answering any questions posed.
Indeed, if you go back a couple of pages on here, someone will tell you how posts are removed from TVOC site if they ask awkward questions or make disparaging comments. Do you consider that to be good management? I don't I'm afraid.
And so we come back to this never-ending saga of holding the British public to ransom with the old 'Cough up or she's grounded' statement yet again. It's really wearing thin now don't you think? Just get on and ground the thing if it's so dire - put us all out of our misery!
If Pleming and the rest of the team can't come up with something a little bit better than that, then they should go frankly. I shan't even bother to talk about this new female who's supposed to be running the education side of things - where do they get them from??
So, I regret that I must disagree with you on most counts and I fear it's now just a matter of time until the project folds for good. I only hope that when this sorry tale does end, that some form of inquiry is launched into some of the claims made on this forum and others. It will make for ineteresting reading for sure.
Winco
Thank you for your reply. Whilst I don't want to get to the stage that Tim has found himself in (and I do have sympathy for him) the facts remain that this project has NOT ground to a halt because of lack of money. It has found itself where it's at today because of (IMHO) poor management. Infact, management that has been beyond belief at times.
I have never slagged off the project. I have always wished them the best of luck, but luck is simply not enough, and my complaint has always been this managerial attitude of 'I know better than you, therefore I'm not going to listen to you' (or anyone else for that manner)
I myself have written to Pleming on more than one occasion. I know countless other ex Vulcan Pilots and aircrew who have also written to Plemming offering our services; do you think any of us have even so much as received an acknowledgement for our correspondance? Of course not. We haven't had a thing back, either from Pleming or TVOC as a group. That is not poor management, it's NO management!
The reason why there is little dialogue is NOT because of some of the things that are actually said, but it's because Pleming and his team refuse to enter into any discussions whatsoever with the public (he's even said that himself I think somewhere) and thus, when difficult questions get asked by the public, about THEIR money, no answer is offered and people do begin to 'slag them off' as you rightly say. But who is to blame for that do you think??
Now you claim that we should applaud them at Brunters because they are still here and still 'talking with the public' But what else do you expect? I have yet to see anything constructive posted on here or even on their own web site in responce to any form of cricism. Is that 'talking to the public' I think not. It displays an abundance of arrogance on their part that they continue NOT to talk to the public. I regret that, despite persistant requests on PPrune and elsewhere, you won't find any responce from TVOC answering any questions posed.
Indeed, if you go back a couple of pages on here, someone will tell you how posts are removed from TVOC site if they ask awkward questions or make disparaging comments. Do you consider that to be good management? I don't I'm afraid.
And so we come back to this never-ending saga of holding the British public to ransom with the old 'Cough up or she's grounded' statement yet again. It's really wearing thin now don't you think? Just get on and ground the thing if it's so dire - put us all out of our misery!
If Pleming and the rest of the team can't come up with something a little bit better than that, then they should go frankly. I shan't even bother to talk about this new female who's supposed to be running the education side of things - where do they get them from??
So, I regret that I must disagree with you on most counts and I fear it's now just a matter of time until the project folds for good. I only hope that when this sorry tale does end, that some form of inquiry is launched into some of the claims made on this forum and others. It will make for ineteresting reading for sure.
Winco
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thanks for the clarification on matters Mod PPP 
interestingly, the matters you raised were, some months ago, indicative of just how poor TVOC's management abilities were; it took some very serious 'slagging-off' on here (and several other places) for TVOC to eventually pull their head out of the sand and realise that there were very valid concerns being voiced. for far too long, TVOC simply hoped that these comments would simply go away, rather than reading them as a genuinely constructive critique.
as i said before, failing to see one's own shortcomings is a fundamental failure of effective management.
Tim McLelland - contrary to what you may believe, i whole-heartedly agree with all that you have said with respect to offers of help being snubbed etc. i myself have encountered exactly the same since October 2007, to some astonishing extent; unanswered emails, non-returned 'phone calls, rudeness, threats of legal action etc etc - all because those 'guilty' few at Brunty had this holier-than-thou attitude. i am only too aware that my name was on a blacklist up there - third-parties would report back to me what reactions were received at the very mention of my name!
it was not that my ideas weren't any good, but that they weren't their ideas. they seemed to completely lack the ability to think laterally, and failed to see how their own projected figures for financial support and Club membership were totally unrealistic.
despite the difficulties i experienced, i persevered with things - especially after getting some advice directly from one of the Trustees - "if you can't work with them, either go over or around them!"
i did!
so, what has made my opinion of TVOC change so markedly? the change of management!!! the main blockage to progress has gone, those other few that were able to 'hide' before are now unprotected and can be held to account.
certainly Dr. P is still the big cheese, but the operational structure and those beneath him who actually do stuff have changed greatly; i now receive very prompt replies to emails, ideas are appreciated and discussed, and a couple of my own 'projects' which were previously impossible to even get TVOC to listen to are gradually becoming a reality. one publicity scheme i originally put to TVOC on December 14th 2007 but only within the last three weeks has anything actually been done about it - over a year!
so, in short, pre October last year (ish) all negative comments were 100% valid. it's only been a few weeks and i personally have seen a considerable change in attitude, as have many others. yes, it should have happened long ago, but it didn't - what is important is that it is happening now!
it was never realistic to sack the entire management and ship in a dream-team overnight, but with some key changes in personnel, attitude, focus and policy, TVOC is a very different beast than it was - thank god!
it just needs a little time - something which is preciously short, but it's not impossible.
sm
interestingly, the matters you raised were, some months ago, indicative of just how poor TVOC's management abilities were; it took some very serious 'slagging-off' on here (and several other places) for TVOC to eventually pull their head out of the sand and realise that there were very valid concerns being voiced. for far too long, TVOC simply hoped that these comments would simply go away, rather than reading them as a genuinely constructive critique.
as i said before, failing to see one's own shortcomings is a fundamental failure of effective management.
Tim McLelland - contrary to what you may believe, i whole-heartedly agree with all that you have said with respect to offers of help being snubbed etc. i myself have encountered exactly the same since October 2007, to some astonishing extent; unanswered emails, non-returned 'phone calls, rudeness, threats of legal action etc etc - all because those 'guilty' few at Brunty had this holier-than-thou attitude. i am only too aware that my name was on a blacklist up there - third-parties would report back to me what reactions were received at the very mention of my name!
it was not that my ideas weren't any good, but that they weren't their ideas. they seemed to completely lack the ability to think laterally, and failed to see how their own projected figures for financial support and Club membership were totally unrealistic.
despite the difficulties i experienced, i persevered with things - especially after getting some advice directly from one of the Trustees - "if you can't work with them, either go over or around them!"
i did!
so, what has made my opinion of TVOC change so markedly? the change of management!!! the main blockage to progress has gone, those other few that were able to 'hide' before are now unprotected and can be held to account.
certainly Dr. P is still the big cheese, but the operational structure and those beneath him who actually do stuff have changed greatly; i now receive very prompt replies to emails, ideas are appreciated and discussed, and a couple of my own 'projects' which were previously impossible to even get TVOC to listen to are gradually becoming a reality. one publicity scheme i originally put to TVOC on December 14th 2007 but only within the last three weeks has anything actually been done about it - over a year!
so, in short, pre October last year (ish) all negative comments were 100% valid. it's only been a few weeks and i personally have seen a considerable change in attitude, as have many others. yes, it should have happened long ago, but it didn't - what is important is that it is happening now!
it was never realistic to sack the entire management and ship in a dream-team overnight, but with some key changes in personnel, attitude, focus and policy, TVOC is a very different beast than it was - thank god!
it just needs a little time - something which is preciously short, but it's not impossible.
sm
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SM, I admire your optimism but I'm more inclined to wait and see what happens, as my own view (based on the past few years) is that things are unlikely to change, though I'll be delighted if I'm proved wrong. So far, I haven't seen anything to suggest even the slightest change though.
I'm prompted to ask that, if so much has supposedly changed and everyone is running-around below the great Dr.Pleming, then why exactly is he still the "Big Cheese"? What is he doing that everybody else isn't? As you say in your own words SM, there's him and then there's the people "who actually do stuff". Strange how the one who does and says the least is the one who is taking the most money isn't it? Is anyone doing anything about this or even asking why? No. I thought not.
Sorry, but the whole set-up has been a long-running saga of obscurity, silence, misinformation, and money wasting. I'd be prepared to put all that in the past (as would others I'm sure) but simply reading comments on a forum about "how things have changed" is no indication that they actually have. I suspect quite a few people will have got excited about the mutterings concering the "major national initiative" that came yesterday - and what was it? Some guys going round museums with a collecting can. Come on, is that the best that TVOC can do when their "boss" is sitting on a huge pay cheque that we're paying for?
I'd be more inclined to think things had changed if someone (how about Pleming?) told us that they'd gone back to HLF along the lines I suggested and having being told no, they were embarking upon a national campaign (backed by MP's) to persuade HLF to change their stance. That would be a sign of TVOC doing something practical and worthwhile. Unfortunately, a group of blokes driving round with a collecting can while Pleming sits in his office admiring his bank balance, is no great sign of progress at all, in my view.
As I say, I'd like to be proved wrong but my view is the situation isn't going to change one jot until Pleming and his cronies kindly disappear and people with a better attitude get a chance to take-over. I sympathise with the people who are trying their best to raise money but until the folks at the top clear off, I think they're wasting their time.
I'm prompted to ask that, if so much has supposedly changed and everyone is running-around below the great Dr.Pleming, then why exactly is he still the "Big Cheese"? What is he doing that everybody else isn't? As you say in your own words SM, there's him and then there's the people "who actually do stuff". Strange how the one who does and says the least is the one who is taking the most money isn't it? Is anyone doing anything about this or even asking why? No. I thought not.
Sorry, but the whole set-up has been a long-running saga of obscurity, silence, misinformation, and money wasting. I'd be prepared to put all that in the past (as would others I'm sure) but simply reading comments on a forum about "how things have changed" is no indication that they actually have. I suspect quite a few people will have got excited about the mutterings concering the "major national initiative" that came yesterday - and what was it? Some guys going round museums with a collecting can. Come on, is that the best that TVOC can do when their "boss" is sitting on a huge pay cheque that we're paying for?
I'd be more inclined to think things had changed if someone (how about Pleming?) told us that they'd gone back to HLF along the lines I suggested and having being told no, they were embarking upon a national campaign (backed by MP's) to persuade HLF to change their stance. That would be a sign of TVOC doing something practical and worthwhile. Unfortunately, a group of blokes driving round with a collecting can while Pleming sits in his office admiring his bank balance, is no great sign of progress at all, in my view.
As I say, I'd like to be proved wrong but my view is the situation isn't going to change one jot until Pleming and his cronies kindly disappear and people with a better attitude get a chance to take-over. I sympathise with the people who are trying their best to raise money but until the folks at the top clear off, I think they're wasting their time.
Last edited by Tim McLelland; 31st Jan 2009 at 20:35.
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Pprune Pop thanks for the information. Actually I was well aware of the role that a Moderator undertakes. I've edited enough magazines to know all about the problems of excluding potentially offensive or defamatory comments, thanks very much.
My point was that some posts on this thread have reportedly been removed without reason in the past, and I was locked out of the thread at one stage without any explanation. That isn't moderation - that's someone with an axe to grind in my opinion.
Anyway ' nuff said.
My point was that some posts on this thread have reportedly been removed without reason in the past, and I was locked out of the thread at one stage without any explanation. That isn't moderation - that's someone with an axe to grind in my opinion.
Anyway ' nuff said.
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My point was that some posts on this thread have reportedly been removed without reason in the past, and I was locked out of the thread at one stage without any explanation.
That isn't moderation - that's someone with an axe to grind in my opinion.
That isn't moderation - that's someone with an axe to grind in my opinion.
Anyway ' nuff said.
On the other hand, thanks to Saracenman for bringing a level headed an informative response to an otherwise very tedious thread.
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Splash Down
As I understand the timetable you have copied in, the 4x4 will be driving around in a circle from 02:15 until 03:30, so as to arrive at Carlisle from Carlisle?
Solway Aviation Museum - nice museum situated at Carlisle Airport.
As I understand the timetable you have copied in, the 4x4 will be driving around in a circle from 02:15 until 03:30, so as to arrive at Carlisle from Carlisle?
Solway Aviation Museum - nice museum situated at Carlisle Airport.
I have also experienced what SM has and concur with TM, Winco and others. I have and still do support them both financially and spreading the word locally, allthough what I do locally is of my own doing as I no longer bother with Bruntingthorpe for 'permission'. I will add that like SM I am also seeing a seed change happening but unfortunately I think it is, in all reality to little to late, more due to Dr Plemimg should not have made the rash statement he did.
But the biggest embarrasment is the raffle, this is supposed to be drawn on 7th Feb, but as the Dr Pleming's cry of give me money or it will not fly again decision was originally the end of January, now changed to the end of February, this means the draw cannot take place until the decision has been made as to wether 558 flys or not, so some people are going to have rather a lot of egg on there faces this next week with regards to the raffle and it is going to be very interesting as to how this is going to be approached.
But the biggest embarrasment is the raffle, this is supposed to be drawn on 7th Feb, but as the Dr Pleming's cry of give me money or it will not fly again decision was originally the end of January, now changed to the end of February, this means the draw cannot take place until the decision has been made as to wether 558 flys or not, so some people are going to have rather a lot of egg on there faces this next week with regards to the raffle and it is going to be very interesting as to how this is going to be approached.
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hurn, the reason threads like this become "tedious" is because people such as yourself think there's something amusing about trying to score points, or simply complaining about other people's posts. If you don't like my viewpoints that's fine, but if you haven't any alternative viewpoints, then why do you have to simply criticise those who do have something useful to say?
The only reason I continually repeat my view (which obviously annoys you) is because I care about the aircraft and I've made a very clear point about how the project could - just possibly - be saved. I keep banging-on about it because nobody (not least TVOC) has addressed the point, therefore it seems only reasonable to keep banging-on about it until somebody does. Or perhaps you'd rather I just forgot about it and sat-back to moan (like yourself)?
So, in short, if you have something constructive (or critical) to say about the project (rather than me) then by all means say it. Otherwise, why don't you go read another thread?
The only reason I continually repeat my view (which obviously annoys you) is because I care about the aircraft and I've made a very clear point about how the project could - just possibly - be saved. I keep banging-on about it because nobody (not least TVOC) has addressed the point, therefore it seems only reasonable to keep banging-on about it until somebody does. Or perhaps you'd rather I just forgot about it and sat-back to moan (like yourself)?
So, in short, if you have something constructive (or critical) to say about the project (rather than me) then by all means say it. Otherwise, why don't you go read another thread?
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Re_ Timetable
Seeing as there were errors in the timetable that I posted up, on here and having had a request to remove/change part/s of it I have dicided to remove the whole thing.
I posted in good faith beleving it was correct at the time I posted it up,
If I have upset anyone I would like to apoligise.
Seeing as there were errors in the timetable that I posted up, on here and having had a request to remove/change part/s of it I have dicided to remove the whole thing.
I posted in good faith beleving it was correct at the time I posted it up,
If I have upset anyone I would like to apoligise.
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Splashdown,
That is fine.
From what I understand, the listing is subject to final confirmation.
There are one or two copies going around "pasted" off the members area on the main VTTS Club site by keen supporters, whilst it was still in the early stages of organisation.
It has been suggested we wait for a fresh Official Press Release nearer the time, which will have all the correct details on and route.
The one announcing this "Scramble" (a few posts back) also said more details will be available on a new dedicated webpage soon.
FS
That is fine.
From what I understand, the listing is subject to final confirmation.
There are one or two copies going around "pasted" off the members area on the main VTTS Club site by keen supporters, whilst it was still in the early stages of organisation.
It has been suggested we wait for a fresh Official Press Release nearer the time, which will have all the correct details on and route.
The one announcing this "Scramble" (a few posts back) also said more details will be available on a new dedicated webpage soon.
FS
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I have found this forum from the talk on the TVOC website.
The CLUB seems to be very busy, but what is the TRUST doing?
I wish them well, and as the saying goes "it's a long shot, but it might just work"
however, unfortunately I dont think it will.
The CLUB seems to be very busy, but what is the TRUST doing?
I wish them well, and as the saying goes "it's a long shot, but it might just work"
however, unfortunately I dont think it will.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Hi all.Just popped over from the official site.I'm afraid i'm with Harrier on this one.I was hoping that the wait for the big announcement (scramble) was gonna knock me of my feet,unfortunately i think its a bit of a damp squid.I too wish them well but i can't see the message getting out to the general public when much of the travelling and stops at sites is to be done when most will be tucked up in bed and more to the point the museums will not be open to the general public.Again the trust is saying nothing and it has been left to diehard forum members to come up with ideas.What the hell is going on at brunty?It has been mentioned on here and other fora that things are changing for the better but where's the proof of that?Why the silence??
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I have to agree withe Harrier and Mark36, just what is going on at the sharp end????? All that ever happens is they have another appeal and expect the club to bail them out again, seems they only ever want to get enough donations to pay their salaries each month, and what thanks do the club get.............. hardly a mention anywhere except on the site. You almost want the project to tumble just far enough to get the current management out and get some people in who can do the job right.
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And just how far a tumble would that be? As i see it the project is in free fall at the minute.
I would also be interested to hear just exactly would/could take over and run the whole shabang, i keep hearing for the Brunty bunch to be sacked etc but not a single idea of who replaces them.
I would also be interested to hear just exactly would/could take over and run the whole shabang, i keep hearing for the Brunty bunch to be sacked etc but not a single idea of who replaces them.