Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Serious thread drift here but I did 4 weeks resettlement training in India.
I was told that only 2% pay income tax and they resent the way the government uses it.
There are many very charitable Indians but they do look after themselves first and there is a suspicion of money leakage on projects there. I estimated that there were 7 levels or society there with the charitable workers at about level 3 prosperity wise.
At the bottom I could not work out whether a pavement dweller was higher or lower than a slum dweller.
Some would sleep on a piece of sack with another over their head. Others in brick built constructions, TV etc, with electricity tapped off the street lights.
From time to time the city authorities would rehouse them in social housing and demolish the street house. Days later a pallet of bricks would arrive and the building would be rebuilt. The same occupants would return having sublet their social housing! Entreprenures every one.
And the money? £25 buys you an eye cataract operation. £25 buys you an articial limb. Compare that with European or UK prices.
Anyone want to buy an Indian an operation or an artificial limb can PM me and I will be able to get it done.
I was told that only 2% pay income tax and they resent the way the government uses it.
There are many very charitable Indians but they do look after themselves first and there is a suspicion of money leakage on projects there. I estimated that there were 7 levels or society there with the charitable workers at about level 3 prosperity wise.
At the bottom I could not work out whether a pavement dweller was higher or lower than a slum dweller.
Some would sleep on a piece of sack with another over their head. Others in brick built constructions, TV etc, with electricity tapped off the street lights.
From time to time the city authorities would rehouse them in social housing and demolish the street house. Days later a pallet of bricks would arrive and the building would be rebuilt. The same occupants would return having sublet their social housing! Entreprenures every one.
And the money? £25 buys you an eye cataract operation. £25 buys you an articial limb. Compare that with European or UK prices.
Anyone want to buy an Indian an operation or an artificial limb can PM me and I will be able to get it done.
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There is a new fundraising DVD coming out 1st July if you want to boost the coffers of the VTST. It's part one of the Restoration of XH558 series of DVD and will be available at Waddington Airshow! 
Can't wait to see it! 
Can't wait to see it!
Cunning Artificer
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At the bottom I could not work out whether a pavement dweller was higher or lower than a slum dweller.... ...Some would sleep on a piece of sack with another over their head.
Yes, there's lots of good causes out there. Unfortunately we can't back them all.
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Is it just me or have we just seen more spectacular spin from the team with their latest newsletter ?
Not long ago, figures like £350,000 were bandied about as being needed, then it was £600,000 and now, reading the newsletter its clear that the total at the moment is now £1million just to achieve first flight. No mention is made of the further costs for the flight test program or indeed general running costs.
Allowing for more spectacular miscalculations again I wonder what the true figure is ?
Doubtless so people will respond with the usual array of "its just another £20/£30/£50 a head" lark, but this seems to be rapidly turning into a bottomless pit. The major sponsor was supposed to bring in £500,000 and no one has come forward yet despite the best efforts of Felicity and others. In reality we probably need 2 major sponsors as well as an ongoing revenue stream which doesn't seem to exist.
The harsh reality, no matter how nice and hard working these people are, is that in any other business or walk of life heads would have rolled and the doors closed. I have donated around £500 this last year in monthly subscriptions and in purchases and I see no realistic prospect of first flight, does anyone else other than the blind optomists ?
I see the accounts are still not done and are late in filing, is that because the minute anyone studies them we will be asking harsh questions that will cause embarrassment or is it just poor management that they aren't done ? Either way its uninspiring.
I'd like to know how many paid staff / consultants there are working for the charity other than main contractors and what the #### are they doing to earn their corn ?
VTTS, come clean, give us the full unadulterated worst case scenario and stop wasting time and money if that is the case or else get some people in who will get results and start having the courage to stand aside and get in a team to make or break the project.
Not long ago, figures like £350,000 were bandied about as being needed, then it was £600,000 and now, reading the newsletter its clear that the total at the moment is now £1million just to achieve first flight. No mention is made of the further costs for the flight test program or indeed general running costs.
Allowing for more spectacular miscalculations again I wonder what the true figure is ?
Doubtless so people will respond with the usual array of "its just another £20/£30/£50 a head" lark, but this seems to be rapidly turning into a bottomless pit. The major sponsor was supposed to bring in £500,000 and no one has come forward yet despite the best efforts of Felicity and others. In reality we probably need 2 major sponsors as well as an ongoing revenue stream which doesn't seem to exist.
The harsh reality, no matter how nice and hard working these people are, is that in any other business or walk of life heads would have rolled and the doors closed. I have donated around £500 this last year in monthly subscriptions and in purchases and I see no realistic prospect of first flight, does anyone else other than the blind optomists ?
I see the accounts are still not done and are late in filing, is that because the minute anyone studies them we will be asking harsh questions that will cause embarrassment or is it just poor management that they aren't done ? Either way its uninspiring.
I'd like to know how many paid staff / consultants there are working for the charity other than main contractors and what the #### are they doing to earn their corn ?
VTTS, come clean, give us the full unadulterated worst case scenario and stop wasting time and money if that is the case or else get some people in who will get results and start having the courage to stand aside and get in a team to make or break the project.
Here are some random thoughts on some of the stinging criticism that has been levelled at VTTS recently in this thread. I say, once again, that I am not part of VTTS (nor VOC) - but I do believe in what they’re trying to do.
The VTTS business plan was professionally drawn up and exhaustively vetted by the Heritage Lottery Fund, among others. However, as with all large projects, not everything went to plan.
Things that caused problems were:
1. After approval of the plan, there was an unforeseen delay of 20 months before work started on the aircraft - a delay not caused by VTTS or VOC. That was expensive.
2. The plan relied on getting sponsorship. So far, there has been a shortfall of roughly £0.5m in sponsorship.
3. The major engineering contractor has recently announced a significant, unforeseen increase in costs of more than 50%.
It is worth noting that costs other than those of the major engineering contractor are within the planned budget, and that fundraising other than sponsorship exceeds the business plan projections.
Finally, may I suggest to anyone who is taking selective notice of what they see as some gloomier implications of the Summer 2006 Newsletter ( www.vulcantothesky.com and click on newsletter ) -
you should also look at the front page messages of Marshall Aerospace and the Heritage Lottery Fund, both of which are optimistic and supportive.
A V 8, I did say at Cosford that XH558 could be airborne this year and could fly at next year’s Cosford show - and that is still possible. But it will only happen if those of us that care really make one huge effort to stop this amazing project falling at the last fence.
Standing by for incoming
airsound
PS. andrewmcharlton, The Swinging Monkey, Winco, please chk PMs.
The VTTS business plan was professionally drawn up and exhaustively vetted by the Heritage Lottery Fund, among others. However, as with all large projects, not everything went to plan.
Things that caused problems were:
1. After approval of the plan, there was an unforeseen delay of 20 months before work started on the aircraft - a delay not caused by VTTS or VOC. That was expensive.
2. The plan relied on getting sponsorship. So far, there has been a shortfall of roughly £0.5m in sponsorship.
3. The major engineering contractor has recently announced a significant, unforeseen increase in costs of more than 50%.
It is worth noting that costs other than those of the major engineering contractor are within the planned budget, and that fundraising other than sponsorship exceeds the business plan projections.
Finally, may I suggest to anyone who is taking selective notice of what they see as some gloomier implications of the Summer 2006 Newsletter ( www.vulcantothesky.com and click on newsletter ) -
you should also look at the front page messages of Marshall Aerospace and the Heritage Lottery Fund, both of which are optimistic and supportive.
A V 8, I did say at Cosford that XH558 could be airborne this year and could fly at next year’s Cosford show - and that is still possible. But it will only happen if those of us that care really make one huge effort to stop this amazing project falling at the last fence.
Standing by for incoming
airsound
PS. andrewmcharlton, The Swinging Monkey, Winco, please chk PMs.
Cunning Artificer
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...an unforeseen delay... ...there has been a shortfall of roughly £0.5m in sponsorship... ...a significant, unforeseen increase in costs ...
If she ever does get airborne, no doubt the now customary excess of optimism will encounter the unforeseen costs of operating the old girl.
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airsound,
I genuingly admire your loyalty to Dr Pleming et al and I have noted your comments in the PM.
There are however, a few things that you seem to have perhaps overlooked, or just not bothered to breif us on here...........
1. Why was there such a lengthy delay of 20 months, anf how was that expensive?
2. Surely the question of sponsorship was looked at by all of these experts? Are you asking us to believe that nobody 'sounded out' some of the big sponsors before hane, and at least got a verbal OK? If not, then it must be asked, why not? And lets face it, half a million, whilst a hell of a lot of money to you and, ios absolute peanuts to a big company.
3. As for the 'major' engineering contractor putting up their prices by 50%. Are you serious? Did they not get written quotes before hand? Did they not go on a fixed (or at least limited) price agreement? Again, if not, then why not?
I hate to say it, but you really must question the role of those at the top here. These are the 'experts' as you refer to them. This is Dr Pleming who you rate so highly in earlier posts.
Airsound, your loyalty is commendable, but its time to admit that these are serious ommissions, oversights, unforssen expenses, call them what you want, and they should have been factored in or at least planned for by your so-called experts.
The Winco
I genuingly admire your loyalty to Dr Pleming et al and I have noted your comments in the PM.
There are however, a few things that you seem to have perhaps overlooked, or just not bothered to breif us on here...........
1. Why was there such a lengthy delay of 20 months, anf how was that expensive?
2. Surely the question of sponsorship was looked at by all of these experts? Are you asking us to believe that nobody 'sounded out' some of the big sponsors before hane, and at least got a verbal OK? If not, then it must be asked, why not? And lets face it, half a million, whilst a hell of a lot of money to you and, ios absolute peanuts to a big company.
3. As for the 'major' engineering contractor putting up their prices by 50%. Are you serious? Did they not get written quotes before hand? Did they not go on a fixed (or at least limited) price agreement? Again, if not, then why not?
I hate to say it, but you really must question the role of those at the top here. These are the 'experts' as you refer to them. This is Dr Pleming who you rate so highly in earlier posts.
Airsound, your loyalty is commendable, but its time to admit that these are serious ommissions, oversights, unforssen expenses, call them what you want, and they should have been factored in or at least planned for by your so-called experts.
The Winco
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airsound,
The folks at Brunters might not have forseen these problems, but I would suggest to you that the majority of us out here in the real world DID!
And why, if Marshalls and the Lottery people are optomistic, are the VTTS and VOC so pesamistic? It could be misinterpreted that it is yet another ploy for some more donations maybe?? More 'doom and gloom' from them? We've seen it before, guess we're seeing it again?
Ref your PM to me, thanks, but I think it would be better if you put it on this open forum to let everyone know its contents. It may just calm a few people down, but there again it may get the backs up of a few.
I will be at Waddo next weekend, and will endevour to ask the good Dr why he has NOT replied to any of my letters or e mails. Maybe all of those others would like to do likewise, I am sure they will have a big stand in one of the hangars!
Kind regards
TSM
The folks at Brunters might not have forseen these problems, but I would suggest to you that the majority of us out here in the real world DID!
And why, if Marshalls and the Lottery people are optomistic, are the VTTS and VOC so pesamistic? It could be misinterpreted that it is yet another ploy for some more donations maybe?? More 'doom and gloom' from them? We've seen it before, guess we're seeing it again?
Ref your PM to me, thanks, but I think it would be better if you put it on this open forum to let everyone know its contents. It may just calm a few people down, but there again it may get the backs up of a few.
I will be at Waddo next weekend, and will endevour to ask the good Dr why he has NOT replied to any of my letters or e mails. Maybe all of those others would like to do likewise, I am sure they will have a big stand in one of the hangars!
Kind regards
TSM
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Thanks for the PM but all this should be out in the open not private and personal "justification of what people have been doing" chats.
I have been barracking on the the tvoc site for answers and of course there aren't any other than the eternal optomists who keep saying "just another £30 each" or "shut up and do be so negative".
Interestingly, Felicity took the time to answer postings on this message board in their FAQ's but none of the postings on their own web site.
Does anyone know how many people other than contractors actually draw a salary or some payment as consultants ?
I have been barracking on the the tvoc site for answers and of course there aren't any other than the eternal optomists who keep saying "just another £30 each" or "shut up and do be so negative".
Interestingly, Felicity took the time to answer postings on this message board in their FAQ's but none of the postings on their own web site.
Does anyone know how many people other than contractors actually draw a salary or some payment as consultants ?
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airsound,
I hate to say it boy, but andrew is yet another in the long line of folks who have asked the question(s) and not got a reply. Maybe you could suggest that its high time your 'friend' started replying to those who take the time to write to him??
Andrew, I guess the names and ££££££ are available somewhere... the question is? yep where?
If you find them, maybe you could pm me them or better still, put them on here for all to see.
The Winco
I hate to say it boy, but andrew is yet another in the long line of folks who have asked the question(s) and not got a reply. Maybe you could suggest that its high time your 'friend' started replying to those who take the time to write to him??
Andrew, I guess the names and ££££££ are available somewhere... the question is? yep where?
If you find them, maybe you could pm me them or better still, put them on here for all to see.
The Winco
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Originally Posted by green granite
Fit an exec suite in place of the rear crew seats and use it as Blairforce one
be very impressive for him to arrive at a meeting in
be very impressive for him to arrive at a meeting in
Better still fit his seat to the main undercarriage door and don't give him any seat belt... would the lottery not possibly up the anti? after all it will be major egg on their faces if spending xyz on it she never flies..... There was a nice article about this many moons ago, this is the first ever flyer they have shelled out for as active aviation was deemed to be not a worthwhile cause........... they had managed to fund God knows how many trains though
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
they had managed to fund God knows how many trains though
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Originally Posted by Roadster280
The risk of a train falling out of the sky is vanishingly small.
you could say the same thing for aircraft - they don't, generally, 'fall out of the sky', it's only the sheer volume of air traffic that means that you get an accident now and then.
Flying is safe, remember?
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[quote=NutLoose]Better still fit his seat to the main undercarriage door and don't give him any seat belt...
I and 20 odd other ATC guys once had a flight in a Vulcan bomb bay, what an experience!
I saw the last Vulcan flight and would so dearly love to see a Vulcan flying again.
I and 20 odd other ATC guys once had a flight in a Vulcan bomb bay, what an experience!
I saw the last Vulcan flight and would so dearly love to see a Vulcan flying again.
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Don't start me on the subject of "trains" as you call them, getting funding for their boilers, our locomotive didn't and its the oldest privately preserved GWR steam locomotive in the UK and we are only talking £70K, and..etc etc. Yours
"The Fat Contoller"
btw, I'd love to see a Vulcan fly again but that is a really expensive hobby!
Originally Posted by The Swinging Monkey
Hirsutesme
Are you for real? Pray tell us more!
When and with with who did you go for a trip in a Vulcan Bomb Bay?
Its a joke right?
TSM
Are you for real? Pray tell us more!
When and with with who did you go for a trip in a Vulcan Bomb Bay?
Its a joke right?
TSM
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There was a VIP fit for the Vulcan.
A bed was installed in the prone position for Mountbatten to fly across the pond to Goose for a bit of fly fishing, until someone told the Sun.
His lordship was 100% pissed off and the staish was lucky to get his star.
A bed was installed in the prone position for Mountbatten to fly across the pond to Goose for a bit of fly fishing, until someone told the Sun.
His lordship was 100% pissed off and the staish was lucky to get his star.