Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
That's understandable, Tim. But let's try not to undermine all the efforts being made to get '558 airborne. I for one am not going to throw in the towel at this stage and sincerely hope that others won't!
OK - I'll admit to being a bit biased, having had the chance to taxi '655 briefly last year and to run the engines up to just short of the 'rutting dinosaur' noise point! Can't wait to see the Vulcan fly again, rather then just bellowing its way down Wellesbourne Mountofrd or Southends' runways!
OK - I'll admit to being a bit biased, having had the chance to taxi '655 briefly last year and to run the engines up to just short of the 'rutting dinosaur' noise point! Can't wait to see the Vulcan fly again, rather then just bellowing its way down Wellesbourne Mountofrd or Southends' runways!
Rutting Dinosaur.....
Beags…with your knowledge, please correct me if I’m ranting off at a tangent here…
But, my long standing unease with the whole ‘558 situation has been the apparent go it alone methods of TVOC in relation the rest of the civil operated ex-mil jet operations?
My view, maybe misplaced, would have been to try and generate a sound business plan to find a commercial use for the old girl once airworthy rather than a pure airshow display role, which is why many sceptics have always questioned the viability of the operation of such a complex and hugely expensive bit of kit for a such a single purpose, especially considering the lack of budgets of many of today’s airshow organisers. The display rate for a civilian operated Vulcan must be staggering….
Civilian contract use for her to earn a living as well as some display work I would have thought would have made more business sense and may have not had to drag in the HLF.
Were HHA/Delta Jets/Air Atlantic’s etc., experiences tapped into?
It’s range capabilities would have enabled contract use in the USA and even maybe stints at Thunder Cities Test Pilot school use could have been a potential revenue earner but still allowing occasional display use.
Or am I being unrealistic here?
Beags…with your knowledge, please correct me if I’m ranting off at a tangent here…
But, my long standing unease with the whole ‘558 situation has been the apparent go it alone methods of TVOC in relation the rest of the civil operated ex-mil jet operations?
My view, maybe misplaced, would have been to try and generate a sound business plan to find a commercial use for the old girl once airworthy rather than a pure airshow display role, which is why many sceptics have always questioned the viability of the operation of such a complex and hugely expensive bit of kit for a such a single purpose, especially considering the lack of budgets of many of today’s airshow organisers. The display rate for a civilian operated Vulcan must be staggering….
Civilian contract use for her to earn a living as well as some display work I would have thought would have made more business sense and may have not had to drag in the HLF.
Were HHA/Delta Jets/Air Atlantic’s etc., experiences tapped into?
It’s range capabilities would have enabled contract use in the USA and even maybe stints at Thunder Cities Test Pilot school use could have been a potential revenue earner but still allowing occasional display use.
Or am I being unrealistic here?
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IIRC it was the good doctor who purchased 558 and the 600 odd tons of spares initially and invested a not inconsiderable sum of his own money in the long term hire of the hangar and the stores and so on and so forth.
It was also a 'last resort' in getting the HLF interested as the condition (charitable Trust status) effectively meant him handing over his asset and subsequent investment for no financial return...
So whilst it is correct to press for answers it has to be done with the knowledge that the person 'in charge' has every reason to feel justified in his approach and the results it has so far achieved... in actually getting to the stage where money is the biggest obstacle.. not the CAA or insurance world..
As for the finances of a Charity; the publication of audited accounts for the previous financial year is the only information we have a 'right' to know...certainly the fact that HLF monies are involved does not give an automatic 'right' to know all of details beyond that...so whilst we may think it judicious in PR terms; to be more open its not an obligation.
I think the good doctor has invested time in ensuring his links with both other a/c operating companies and other avaition bodies is as current as it could be... presenting the project to the HAA (at the RAFM) in Ocotober 2005 and to the RAES at Boscombe Down, in April 2006...
And sad to report that 'unexpected' costs and funding issues is inherent in this type of work...and any contract a contractor will sign up to is always going to have a clause that permits claiming of additional monies...similary no PR company will agree to a solely 'performance' based contract.. the work has to be done regardless of getting the results required.. its all 'at risk' for the employer. You would get a better rate from somebody who personnally belives in the cause and has the werewith all to do so..
It was also a 'last resort' in getting the HLF interested as the condition (charitable Trust status) effectively meant him handing over his asset and subsequent investment for no financial return...
So whilst it is correct to press for answers it has to be done with the knowledge that the person 'in charge' has every reason to feel justified in his approach and the results it has so far achieved... in actually getting to the stage where money is the biggest obstacle.. not the CAA or insurance world..
As for the finances of a Charity; the publication of audited accounts for the previous financial year is the only information we have a 'right' to know...certainly the fact that HLF monies are involved does not give an automatic 'right' to know all of details beyond that...so whilst we may think it judicious in PR terms; to be more open its not an obligation.
I think the good doctor has invested time in ensuring his links with both other a/c operating companies and other avaition bodies is as current as it could be... presenting the project to the HAA (at the RAFM) in Ocotober 2005 and to the RAES at Boscombe Down, in April 2006...
And sad to report that 'unexpected' costs and funding issues is inherent in this type of work...and any contract a contractor will sign up to is always going to have a clause that permits claiming of additional monies...similary no PR company will agree to a solely 'performance' based contract.. the work has to be done regardless of getting the results required.. its all 'at risk' for the employer. You would get a better rate from somebody who personnally belives in the cause and has the werewith all to do so..
Originally Posted by mfaff
IIRC it was the good doctor who purchased 558 and the 600 odd tons of spares initially and invested a not inconsiderable sum of his own money in the long term hire of the hangar and the stores and so on and so forth.
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Exactly, it was David Walton who bought 558, and Pleming came along much later. This is why there are so many tales going around about Pleming's motivation, the precise nature of his role, and precisely how much money he's getting paid for his efforts. Naturally, it may well be that he's doing an excellent job and should be getting our full support and thanks, but let's face it, he doesn't exactly go out of his way to explain his position, does he?
On a more personal level, I thought it strange that my dealings with David Walton were always helpful and friendly. Precisely the opposite situation arose when Pleming appeared. Consequently, this fact, combined with all the tales I keep hearing, suggests to me that he ought to be doing rather more to justify his current position within TVOC. I don't think it's unfair to ask him to do that, is it?
Incidentally GeeRam, I did suggest something very similar to your proposal many years ago, before the RAF disposed of 558. Unfortunately, it now transpires that 558 hasn't really got sufficient flying hours remaining to use them on anything other than display flying, if it's "twilight career" on the show circuit isn't to be unreasonably short. Still, I suppose TVOC could have a go at restoring XL426 once 558 is worn out?!
On a more personal level, I thought it strange that my dealings with David Walton were always helpful and friendly. Precisely the opposite situation arose when Pleming appeared. Consequently, this fact, combined with all the tales I keep hearing, suggests to me that he ought to be doing rather more to justify his current position within TVOC. I don't think it's unfair to ask him to do that, is it?
Incidentally GeeRam, I did suggest something very similar to your proposal many years ago, before the RAF disposed of 558. Unfortunately, it now transpires that 558 hasn't really got sufficient flying hours remaining to use them on anything other than display flying, if it's "twilight career" on the show circuit isn't to be unreasonably short. Still, I suppose TVOC could have a go at restoring XL426 once 558 is worn out?!
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Courtesy of this thread link, an interesting assumption re costings may be found here
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...p?t=277&page=5
then backtrack through the posts until you come to 20th April 2006, 15:48.
Have to admit that as much as I would like to see a Vulcan airborne again, the project was a non starter from day one.
Just the memories now of living near Woodford and seeing Roly Falk rolling the white triangle which had me spell-bound.
Apparently volunteer work on the white triangle at Woodford (XM603) was stopped some time ago when H&S got involved.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...p?t=277&page=5
then backtrack through the posts until you come to 20th April 2006, 15:48.
Have to admit that as much as I would like to see a Vulcan airborne again, the project was a non starter from day one.
Just the memories now of living near Woodford and seeing Roly Falk rolling the white triangle which had me spell-bound.
Apparently volunteer work on the white triangle at Woodford (XM603) was stopped some time ago when H&S got involved.
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The white triangle at Woodford fell at the CAA hurdle, from what I hear. Because the CAA were not involved in the engineering reconstruction, they were not prepared to give it a permit to fly. Pity, because the TP, Al McDicken, has extensive Vulcan experience [operational], having done several tours on it in his yoof...
XH558 on ITV
About ten days ago the tvoc website mentioned an ITV regional programme about the restoration of XH558:-
Some of the regional scheduling is still shown as "tba". Can anyone please advise on the missing dates?
"ITV visited Bruntingthorpe and recorded an item on the restoration of XH558 and the need for extra funding and it is scheduled to be shown at the following times on the following regional programmes."
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Interesting message passed my desk today.
MOD Box is looking for an aircraft elect to do a non-established re-wiring job on XH558.
Looks like official backing will win through in the end.
MOD Box is looking for an aircraft elect to do a non-established re-wiring job on XH558.
Looks like official backing will win through in the end.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Insty I will try and remember to bring the details home. I sem to remember they were looking at Cpl SAC for about 6 mnths work.
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
Interesting message passed my desk today.
MOD Box is looking for an aircraft elect to do a non-established re-wiring job on XH558.
Looks like official backing will win through in the end.
MOD Box is looking for an aircraft elect to do a non-established re-wiring job on XH558.
Looks like official backing will win through in the end.
Should have the contact details of the Wg Cdr @ strike I spoke to, who was a really nice guy and very helpful, i'll have a look.
p_j
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As there are two of you I will go open.
The original message I have was 3 May and the most recent is 5 May. Even if you are too late, it started yesterday, it suggests that that is not a problem.
paraphrasing
<<Your voulunteer should contact the Chief Clerk or OC PSF for this unestablished task from CMLO2 STC.
It is for an LAC/SAC AE Tech or A Tech AV multi skilled volunteers (plural) to rewire XH 588. It is for the periuod 15 May - 31 Oct and the accommodatin will be at Cottesmore.
It says roulement will be permitted. I guess it means you don't have to do the full stint and th eparent station pays any costs - but that is a guess.
It is Restricted so I don't want to release more unless you have a candidiate and they need more.>>
The original message I have was 3 May and the most recent is 5 May. Even if you are too late, it started yesterday, it suggests that that is not a problem.
paraphrasing
<<Your voulunteer should contact the Chief Clerk or OC PSF for this unestablished task from CMLO2 STC.
It is for an LAC/SAC AE Tech or A Tech AV multi skilled volunteers (plural) to rewire XH 588. It is for the periuod 15 May - 31 Oct and the accommodatin will be at Cottesmore.
It says roulement will be permitted. I guess it means you don't have to do the full stint and th eparent station pays any costs - but that is a guess.
It is Restricted so I don't want to release more unless you have a candidiate and they need more.>>
Cunning Artificer
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If I remember my electrical "Mod Squad" days in Waddington's No. 3 Shed correctly, it'll take more than a couple of SACs to rewire a Vulcan... 
PN
Thanks for that I've directed the person to the details you've posted.
Hope his bosses help him and I hope he can encourage more to join in.
What great thing to be involved in 
Thanks for that I've directed the person to the details you've posted.
Hope his bosses help him and I hope he can encourage more to join in.
What great thing to be involved in
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Originally Posted by brickhistory
Mastercard ad?
Sight and sound of a Vulcan airborne, priceless!
Sight and sound of a Vulcan airborne, priceless!
And the constant chatter of old ford sierra car alarms after it flew past slowly before throttling up and climbing above the airshow
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
New message about service assistance to the VTTS project.
The period is 5 1/2 months. The start date, off the top of my head, is 15 Jun. It is very high profile.
They are looking for 6 LAC/SAC, the selling points are that they do not need an oversignature as Marshalls wil provide oversight and they will be able to learn valuable skills.
It looks like the publicity is not getting around the bazaars.
If you know any young, keen, green, wanna do a great job, guys then give them the good news.
The period is 5 1/2 months. The start date, off the top of my head, is 15 Jun. It is very high profile.
They are looking for 6 LAC/SAC, the selling points are that they do not need an oversignature as Marshalls wil provide oversight and they will be able to learn valuable skills.
It looks like the publicity is not getting around the bazaars.
If you know any young, keen, green, wanna do a great job, guys then give them the good news.