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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

KRviator 8th Sep 2020 12:10


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10880677)
Victorian Chief Health Officerís qualifications and experience, lots of Communicable disease, infection control and epidemiology experience in there.

And what's telling is what isn't there....no psychological or psychiatric specialities, certainly no economics degree or understanding - but you know what he does have?

Professor Sutton has a keen interest in the incorporation of palliative care practice into humanitarian responses.
Don't suppose his "keen interest" in palliative care practices would be swaying his judgement about the requirement to protect those who don't need palliative care would it?

His response is about protecting those who tend not to contribute to the sustainability of the state, and penalising those that do. The question that must be asked is for how long is that going to be sustainable?

rcoight 8th Sep 2020 12:14


Originally Posted by MrPeabody (Post 10880672)
I very much doubt that Dr Dre is from MEL

Canberra??

MrPeabody 8th Sep 2020 12:43


Originally Posted by rcoight (Post 10880699)
Canberra??

Could be!

Where ever it is, he needs to consider changing the water in his/her or it's smoking apparatus!

rcoight 8th Sep 2020 12:59


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10880677)
No, thatís just a vague line in an article (from a not so unbiased news source I might add),

Looking online I can only find a published copy of letter with no more than 13 names, a urologist being the lead spokesman, I havenít seen any letter that a number approaching 500 doctors have put their names to. Doesnít exist as far as I can see. If any can see it (with 500 names please) feel free to post it, until then Iíll remain skeptical.

Victorian Chief Health Officerís qualifications and experience, lots of Communicable disease, infection control and epidemiology experience in there.


Just out of sheer curiosity: Are you, in fact, a doctor?

Sunfish 8th Sep 2020 13:09

Dr dre:

Nah mate that’s just stuff you’ve pulled out of thin air. I asked for some credible links or evidence and all you’ve offered up is rumour and bias. It just confirms your own beliefs. “Lebanese cousin” “Arabs don’t follow our laws” “my advice (without evidence)” “a millennial with an arts degree” Could’ve written those sentences for any issue people like you rant about over last ten years really.

‘’’The video starring the millennial manager and her team congratulating themselves was played on national TV and to the inquiry. The trajectory of the outbreak through a lebanese crime family is widely known in legal circles, including the family name (a type of bird). The government euphemism was “an extended family outbreak involving six households ‘. The ethnicity is not relevant, the scofflaw behaviour is.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p55504.html

The behaviour of the lebanese untrained security guards is consistent with their behaviour (they are nice guys but subject to temptation) has also been on display for the last eighteen months to the emergency fire services officers securing over thirteen illegal toxic storage dumps during that period there was a 24 hour guard as well as hourly explosive vapour tests. That work finished about six weeks ago.. It is also the subject of daily images and revelations at the ongoing inquiry.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ntine/12550832


Chronic Snoozer 8th Sep 2020 13:17


Originally Posted by wishiwasupthere (Post 10880548)
I posted earlier a link to the Victorian Births Deaths and Marriages website, where they publish monthly totals for the total number of deaths in the State for the previous 12 months. Interestingly, they’ve just updated it to include the total number of deaths in August of this year. Usually they include the previous 12 months so you can compare it to the same time period of the previous year, but conveniently now they’ve included August 2020 figures, but removed the August 2019 figures. Interesting because there was 200 more deaths in Victoria in August 2019 than there was in August 2020, in the midst of pandemic.

This is a screen grab I took a few days ago prior to the update showing the figures up to July 2020, and you’ll notice the July 2019 figures (and August 2019 too - 3892).


And here is a link to the updated August 2020 figures, with the August 2019 figures very conspicuous in their absence, which you can see in the screenshot above.

Deaths registered per month

You're not comparing apples with apples. For the months of Mar-Aug 20 there have been significant restrictions to freedom of movement as well as a social distancing regime. It stands to reason that the deaths have reduced. Not only has the lid been kept on COVID (relatively speaking) there's probably been a positive effect on other causes of death. Presumably any death is included, regardless of cause, in these figures. Granted you did say the figures were interesting and agreed, probably surprising.

There's nothing conspicuous about Aug 19 being missing. It's just a rolling list of 12 months of statistics.

Joker89 8th Sep 2020 13:20


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 10880746)

There's nothing conspicuous about Aug 19 being missing. It's just a rolling list of 12 months of statistics.

however the screen grab is July to July and the current webpage is sep to aug. Something doesnít add up.

I doubt the amount of deaths from cancer and heart disease were impacted from a lockdown. The reality is that 100 odd deaths in Australia wasnít going to impact any statistics. Approximately 2000 people in Australia die each month from a respiratory illness. The hypothesis that every COVID death is a death that would not have occurred within 3-6 months or the next year doesnít hold weight.


Chronic Snoozer 8th Sep 2020 13:26


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10880512)
Complex issues require complex investigations and answers by people who have plenty of experience, knowledge and temperament. Have a think when you see a professor, an epidemiologist, and public health specialist (like the ones I linked to in my response) etc why they donít rant angrily non stop about the talking points youíre bringing up

Well....not in public eh?

wishiwasupthere 8th Sep 2020 14:18


There’s nothing conspicuous about Aug 19 being missing. It's just a rolling list of 12 months of statistics.
So why in the data from last month are the figures from July 2019 to July 2020 shown so a year on year comparison be made, yet for the following month the figures shown are from September 2019 to August 2020? August 2019 is convenient in its absence. I don’t recall us getting a daily running tally of the average 125 people who died per day in Victoria in August last year. It seems like an attempt to obfuscate the data.

Turnleft080 8th Sep 2020 14:40

Well I never was a AJ fan in fact hardly know him being a vic.
Though the longer this crap goes on the more I lean to him.
Something has to give shortly, we cannot go on like this.
I echo his rant here.



Ragnor 8th Sep 2020 19:32

It definitely is pure madness. Each day I still canít believe that we canít freely move around or even work. These borders will remain closed indefinitely as 28 days will never be achieved. We have lost our way thatís for sure.

Green.Dot 8th Sep 2020 22:12

Dr Dre looks to be defending the Victorian Governments handling of this in most posts. Close links maybe?

Even putting the Hotel Debacle aside, the simple fact is even the left wing media have highlighted numerous examples of complete incompetence in the Govts ability to deal with many varied scenarios, and that is just the stuff we know about.

One thing I like about most of the posters on PPRUNE is that we are are willing to challenge a bad call. I hope the Victorian public do the same at election time.

Maggie Island 8th Sep 2020 22:34


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 10880690)
I look forward the the government approaching tobacco related deaths with the same zeal as COVID19.

Any party thatís happy to front the next election with a ~1000% tobacco tax will definitely get my vote!

blubak 8th Sep 2020 22:53


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10881079)
Dr Dre looks to be defending the Victorian Governments handling of this in most posts. Close links maybe?

Even putting the Hotel Debacle aside, the simple fact is even the left wing media have highlighted numerous examples of complete incompetence in the Govts ability to deal with many varied scenarios, and that is just the stuff we know about.

One thing I like about most of the posters on PPRUNE is that we are are willing to challenge a bad call. I hope the Victorian public do the same at election time.

Agree,a bad call is a bad call,lib v lab is not a way to decide who should & shouldnt be in power.
Theres always going to be a decision someone doesnt like but when the decision is this 1 as in the hotel quarantine fiasco just put political parties aside & really ask yourself,was it the right or indeed just a really bad decision that the people of victoria are being punished for now.

Ragnor 8th Sep 2020 23:55

https://www.afr.com/companies/health...0200909-p55trm

Transition Layer 9th Sep 2020 00:41

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...09-p55ts0.html

Same article, without the paywall.

Waiting patiently for a vaccine is a not a way out of this. ScoMo et al - are you paying attention?

Xeptu 9th Sep 2020 02:05

I don't see that the states have any choice. Outside of a total lockdown, it's either sectional lockdown and containment, which probably doesn't work anyway (NSW will be the decider) or let it rip. The economic impact is the same either way, particularly around small business, either you can't do the job yourself or supply issues from those businesses you depend upon, same result. View it like rolling strike action from the 70"s. If and when NSW falls, there are two options, shutdown like VIC or let it rip. If you choose the let it rip option then you must accept, your own health system will most likely become overwhelmed and you probably will lose at least one of your own loved ones. Are you willing to make that choice and which will it be.

Green.Dot 9th Sep 2020 02:35


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 10881155)
I don't see that the states have any choice. Outside of a total lockdown, it's either sectional lockdown and containment, which probably doesn't work anyway (NSW will be the decider) or let it rip.

Ignoring Vic and NSW, please just answer this example Xeptu...

With accurate contact tracing in place, how is somebody travelling on a flight from Brisbane to Perth any more risky in terms of COVID spread than somebody travelling from Brisbane to Cairns or Perth to Broome?

This is one such example of how we can work towards getting this sloth-like economy moving a little bit. Some proactiveness is required from our politicians and our individual attitudes!!

Turnleft080 9th Sep 2020 02:46


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 10881155)
I don't see that the states have any choice. Outside of a total lockdown, it's either sectional lockdown and containment, which probably doesn't work anyway (NSW will be the decider) or let it rip. The economic impact is the same either way, particularly around small business, either you can't do the job yourself or supply issues from those businesses you depend upon, same result. View it like rolling strike action from the 70"s. If and when NSW falls, there are two options, shutdown like VIC or let it rip. If you choose the let it rip option then you must accept, your own health system will most likely become overwhelmed and you probably will lose at least one of your own loved ones. Are you willing to make that choice and which will it be.

Let it rip. I'm with you Xeptu. Been saying that for along time as well. However you do that by very strict quarantine the elderly and age care. Total isolation.
While the vaccine has had a hiccup in Oxford this morning a new study came out on vit D from Spain. Let me stress of course it's not a cure though it can prevent deaths.
Basically 76 people with covid over 60s yo put in 2 groups, in hospital.
50 taking vit D -----------------------1 went to ICU ----------------- No deaths.
26 not taking Vit D -----------------13 went to ICU ---------------- 2 deaths.
Can provide the article/study later if you want. Just maybe then the hospitals won't be that overwhelmed.
Fact is the younger generation can start work right now with masks and all that other stuff.
However again, try reversing any decision Dan has made.
Coming up to 6 weeks stage 4 lockdown and the numbers have gone last 3 days 41,55,76.
What does he want zero cases in a 28 day period. Holy bloody struth.

Xeptu 9th Sep 2020 02:46


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10881165)
Ignoring Vic and NSW, please just answer this example Xeptu...

With accurate contact tracing in place, how is somebody travelling on a flight from Brisbane to Perth any more risky in terms of COVID spread than somebody travelling from Brisbane to Cairns or Perth to Broome?

I would'nt say there is any more or less risk, the issue is "when" the virus arrives. The airlines are parked up because of operational risk, not because they care if you get infected. Trying to keep things moving when you lose one or two crew members is a problem, particularly if those crew members are not in their own home base at the time. You end up with aircraft stuck on the ground all over the place until the whole operation comes to a grinding halt.


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