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cLeArIcE 14th Nov 2021 15:00


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11141999)
Changing jobs are ya?
As a professional pilot we use data that has been proven by thousands of hours of engineering and flight test data to do our job. Some of us still stuff it up.
The Health professionals, the majority of whom would have done far more education in their field that the average line pilot, are being pilloried for doing their job in a situation where they have no tried and tested data.

I suggest that we all pull our heads in, stick to what we know and let the health professionals do their job.

While that is some what true, it doesn't mean they should all be given free reign. It's not the roll of politicians to just blindly follow every bit of advice (even medical professionals). Their role is take advice from multiple sides and sources then make the tough decisions. Its like listening to the Family of a dying man begging you to land at that Little island in the middle of the Pacific. Sure the hospital down there might save his life but you have other things to consider too. All this hiding behind world's best health advice without any consideration for the consequences is Just weak leaders too afraid to make the difficult decisions.

IXUXU 14th Nov 2021 15:53

I apologize for my previous message. I lost the manners.



Australopithecus 14th Nov 2021 18:23

I haven’t been bothered to weigh in on this thread for months now because the idioti frankly are not worth my time. This last idiot even less so.

blubak 14th Nov 2021 19:30


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11141999)
Changing jobs are ya?
As a professional pilot we use data that has been proven by thousands of hours of engineering and flight test data to do our job. Some of us still stuff it up.
The Health professionals, the majority of whom would have done far more education in their field that the average line pilot, are being pilloried for doing their job in a situation where they have no tried and tested data.

I suggest that we all pull our heads in, stick to what we know and let the health professionals do their job.

That includes those who continually question the development of the vaccines,the average person has little or no idea of the amount of work by highly trained professionals that go into this but because somebody they know says its a scam or conspiracy they suddenly become experts.

Buster Hyman 14th Nov 2021 20:01

It takes years based, exponentially, on the available funding. Throw more money and it takes less time.

dr dre 14th Nov 2021 20:25


Originally Posted by IXUXU (Post 11142082)
Listen ****er, thats exactly what we are missing here .....thousand or trials on this vaccine . Why do you think it takes years to get the fully approval for a vaccine.....get a ******* OUIJA table and ask general Collin Powell, you shit.

You really are a ******* penal colony

It’s been said a million times but just to re-iterate:

Adverse reaction follow ups on trial subjects are only done for several months after administration of the trial vaccine, never years later.

The main reason vaccine trials take years is the lack of funding, Covid vaccines had billions pumped in at the start.

There is widespread testing for the virus and millions of cases which made testing of vaccine effectiveness much more quicker.

The DNA sequence was identified right from the start.

Vaccines were premade and able to be rolled out as soon as the first trials were completed.

Colin Powell passed away despite being fully vaccinated as he had a cancer that destroyed his immune producing white blood cells, he would’ve been susceptible to any bad pathogen and his case isn’t a case of vaccine failure.

mince 14th Nov 2021 20:32

Keep on believin dre……

itsnotthatbloodyhard 14th Nov 2021 22:43

Stop wasting your time Dr Dre, they’ve done their research! :}

IXUXU 15th Nov 2021 01:02


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11142171)
It’s been said a million times but just to re-iterate:

Adverse reaction follow ups on trial subjects are only done for several months after administration of the trial vaccine, never years later.

The main reason vaccine trials take years is the lack of funding, Covid vaccines had billions pumped in at the start.

There is widespread testing for the virus and millions of cases which made testing of vaccine effectiveness much more quicker.

The DNA sequence was identified right from the start.

Vaccines were premade and able to be rolled out as soon as the first trials were completed.

Colin Powell passed away despite being fully vaccinated as he had a cancer that destroyed his immune producing white blood cells, he would’ve been susceptible to any bad pathogen and his case isn’t a case of vaccine failure.

Exactly.
Has been said from the very beginning. UNDERLYING CONDITIONS. This virus is only dangerous for people with underlying conditions. People with a compromised immunological system. The vaccine is not going to change that. Is not changing that and it didn´t make the difference for Powell ( and many others).

No, is not because the lack of funding that a vaccine takes years to be fully ready. Even our COVID vaccines are still under trial ( approved or not, are still under trial). They simply don´t know all the side effects. as they didn´t know about the clots and they really don´t know what other effects can appear. You need time (days, months if you want) and a very big sample of population to see all the collateral, and that´s why they have a list of possible side effects and they are just watching and waiting...and learning. Is how it works with any vaccine.

Big Pharma and lack of funding ?........sorry it doesn´t match.

DNA sequence was completed from the start, and the vaccine was designed during a weekend but the Virus has changed already, there are many variants out there....vaccine remains the same and no matter how many shots you are being forced to take cause it won´t work as it should.
People, even in a 100% vaccinated population scenario, will continue carrying, transmitting and dying because the virus but hey! there is no need for panic....We already face many other, actually more dangerous, virus, like Flu, a virus that historically has killed way more millions of people than Covid and it continues doing so every year despite the vaccine. A vaccine, by the way, that has never been and its not mandatory.

So let´s agree to disagree. Time will say.

43Inches 15th Nov 2021 01:26

When you add up all the 'underlying' conditions that covid can aggravate and kill you via it adds up to more than 50% of the population, and once you are over 60 that figure is probably 90%+. So your extremely healthy part of the population is a minority group (who BTW can still get severely sick and die of covid, just in lessor amounts). Most of us writing here probably have underlying conditions of some sort, some may be aware, others not until it sends them to hospital or kills them.

StudentInDebt 15th Nov 2021 01:28


Originally Posted by IXUXU (Post 11142249)
<Uniformed waffle>
So let´s agree to disagree. Time will say.

”Let’s agree to disagree”. The last vestige of the critically uniformed when their debating points, derived from watching a YouTube video posted by a bloke living in his parents basement with a “please subscribe” message, have run out of steam in the face of facts.

IXUXU 15th Nov 2021 02:22


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11142252)
When you add up all the 'underlying' conditions that covid can aggravate and kill you via it adds up to more than 50% of the population, and once you are over 60 that figure is probably 90%+. So your extremely healthy part of the population is a minority group (who BTW can still get severely sick and die of covid, just in lessor amounts). Most of us writing here probably have underlying conditions of some sort, some may be aware, others not until it sends them to hospital or kills them.

Have you seen the total numbers regarding total confirmed cases and deaths? cause it seems to me that to survive the virus you don´t need to be extremely, as you said, healthy. And yes, I´m agree, even if you are healthy you can get severely ill with Covid ...but also with Flu, sometimes shit happens. Furthermore, even if you´re vaccinated still can get severely ill or even die from Covid...and that´s my point. The vaccine is not a final solution, a miracle, something that is going to make the virus to be gone.

This vaccine is not working as it should be, period. If it did, we wouldn´t be here discussing all this no sense of measures. I wouldn´t be passing quarantine, despite being vaccinated with 2 shots of Pfizer, and doing antigen test every week and PCR´s every now and then. I would be in Napier enjoying a nice Hawkes Bay Chardonnay instead of being in this shithole drinking a beer full of ice cause there is no human way to keep it cold....or cycling Te Mata peak and enjoying the fresh air instead and not having to wear a mask, under 38 degrees and 80% humidity that barely allows me to breath ....

But Hey! the third shot is coming.......

Oh boy, I wanted this vaccine to work, me more than anyone else.

IXUXU 15th Nov 2021 02:29


Originally Posted by StudentInDebt (Post 11142254)
”Let’s agree to disagree”. The last vestige of the critically uniformed when their debating points, derived from watching a YouTube video posted by a bloke living in his parents basement with a “please subscribe” message, have run out of steam in the face of facts.


If you´re trying to put me in the same page of antivaxxers or as a Covid conspiracy theories supporter, you´re just wrong.

43Inches 15th Nov 2021 02:56


This vaccine is not working as it should be, period. If it did, we wouldn´t be here discussing all this no sense of measures.
Not sure where you get that idea from, the vaccine is working perfectly fine, with 90% efficacy with virtually no side effects. Multiple studies on actual data worldwide suggests it's doing exactly what it should and the unvaccinated continue to be the main driver of spread and hospitalisations. The measures are still in place because of 'stupid' and the unvaccinated cohorts.

De_flieger 15th Nov 2021 03:18


Originally Posted by IXUXU (Post 11142249)
Exactly.
Has been said from the very beginning. UNDERLYING CONDITIONS. This virus is only dangerous for people with underlying conditions. People with a compromised immunological system. The vaccine is not going to change that. Is not changing that and it didn´t make the difference for Powell ( and many others).
(SNIP)

So let´s agree to disagree. Time will say.

No, you're factually wrong. This virus is more dangerous for people with underlying conditions. Healthy people with no underlying health conditions can, and do die from it, albeit less often. Pre-existing conditions worsen the odds. The vaccine drastically reduces the likelihood of serious illness and death. A recent analysis in Texas, covering a time period where vaccines were widely available and covid was also widespread, shows the massive improvement in outcomes for the vaccinated vs unvaccinated. If you're interested, you can read it here.

COVID-19 Cases and Deaths by Vaccination Status Here's a couple of key points, if you don't want to follow the link - they have a particular focus on the time period September 4 to October 1, as that was when the Delta variant was widespread and vaccines had been freely available for a long time, taken from their report:

From September 4 through October 1, 2021:
  • Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people.
  • Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people.

And

In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age. Unvaccinated people aged 75 years and older were 12 times more likely to die than their vaccinated counterparts.
The vaccine isn't a miracle, as you say, but it makes a vast difference. Time has already said, the results are clear.

If you don't want people to put you on the same page of antivaxxers or as a Covid conspiracy theories supporter, you shouldn't repeat their conspiracy theories and disproven talking points.

Icarus2001 15th Nov 2021 04:08

Facts can be so inconvenient…

Over 98% survival rate for those infected.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d5fc34ff0.jpeg

logansi 15th Nov 2021 07:55

The majority of Australia's infections have occurred post-vaccination in the at-risk groups.

Also would you get on an aircraft if it had a 1 in 50 chance of crashing? Thats 98% survival.

43Inches 15th Nov 2021 09:24

I think what he's saying (badly) is that it is ok for me to go around shooting males over 60 in the head. Because obviously that portion of the population doesn't matter to them, they can just die, they were going to anyway, why can't I just speed it up.

Icarus2001 15th Nov 2021 09:39


Also would you get on an aircraft if it had a 1 in 50 chance of crashing? Thats 98% survival.
Gee let me think about that, no obviously. What is clearly lost on you is that choosing to get on an aircraft is vastly different to living with an endemic virus in society. Hepatitis is not a pleasant infection, TB is rife in SE Asia, STDs are more common than discussed in polite society. We just get on with it. Life that is. 98.5% survival rate overall, for those under 70 years of age more like 99.5% survival rate.


they can just die, they were going to anyway, why can't I just speed it up.
I certainly never said that. By the way, SPOILER ALERT, we all die in the end.

43Inches 15th Nov 2021 10:14


I certainly never said that. By the way, SPOILER ALERT, we all die in the end.
You are saying that by round about means, the fact you are willing to choose between normal life and letting a few old people die, means you think your lifestyle is worth more than their life, it's simple really. And the age at which covid becomes deadly is about 50+ not 70+, beyond 70 it becomes about a 50/50 survival rate, from 50-70 you have about a 20% chance of dying and so on, unvaccinated of course.

I mean at least be honest with yourself, what you are exactly spruiking is that your lifestyle is worth more than a few old people. Try and word it any other way, its the same outcome. Otherwise you would not have put a big graph up saying it only kills older people and 98% survive.


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