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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

WingNut60 12th Jan 2021 00:24

A tent city outside of Curtin AFB or Learmonth, surrounded by security fencing and guards would clear the backlog out of Europe in just a few weeks provided the repatriates were prepared to camp out for 14 days.
But they're not!

They ALL want either the Sheraton or to go home unimpeded so that they can all diligently follow their quarantine restrictions for 14 days with just the occasional (say 6 times per day) visit to a leagues club or a disco.
Unfortunately, the Sheraton doesn't have 40,000 spare rooms.

Sorry. But they'll just have to suck it up.

Joker89 12th Jan 2021 01:06

Guess all those greedy expats should have quit their jobs and come back as soon as possible to go on the dole. Instead they tried to hold onto their jobs and avoid becoming yet another strain on the Australian welfare system. Now made redundant they have no choice than to spend ridiculous amounts of money on repatriation and quarantine.

instead of just pouring money into welfare how about create some new jobs with extra quarantine spaces. It works fine in many other countries without ridiculously low caps on arrivals. No need for tent cities in the desert.

The “you were told to come home argument” is crap

Turnleft080 12th Jan 2021 01:06


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10965990)
A tent city outside of Curtin AFB or Learmonth, surrounded by security fencing and guards would clear the backlog out of Europe in just a few weeks provided the repatriates were prepared to camp out for 14 days.
But they're not!

They ALL want either the Sheraton or to go home unimpeded so that they can all diligently follow their quarantine restrictions for 14 days with just the occasional (say 6 times per day) visit to a leagues club or a disco.
Unfortunately, the Sheraton doesn't have 40,000 spare rooms.

Sorry. But they'll just have to suck it up.

That would be awesome. Imagine coming out of cold Europe and going camping for 14 days up north in the tropics. Just don't mention quarantine. I can picture a camp fire in the middle
of the tent enclosure all the kids melting marshmallows the blokes cooking roo on the spit. Add some wifi a nice dandy holiday.

WingNut60 12th Jan 2021 01:53


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10965998)
That would be awesome. Imagine coming out of cold Europe and going camping for 14 days up north in the tropics. Just don't mention quarantine. I can picture a camp fire in the middle
of the tent enclosure all the kids melting marshmallows the blokes cooking roo on the spit. Add some wifi a nice dandy holiday.

If I really wanted or needed to come home, I would do it at the drop of a hat.
Wife, kids and all.
It's 2 weeks, for X's sake.

But then, I'm a boomer.


aviation_enthus 12th Jan 2021 01:57


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10965990)
A tent city outside of Curtin AFB or Learmonth, surrounded by security fencing and guards would clear the backlog out of Europe in just a few weeks provided the repatriates were prepared to camp out for 14 days.
But they're not!

They ALL want either the Sheraton or to go home unimpeded so that they can all diligently follow their quarantine restrictions for 14 days with just the occasional (say 6 times per day) visit to a leagues club or a disco.
Unfortunately, the Sheraton doesn't have 40,000 spare rooms.

Sorry. But they'll just have to suck it up.

“They ALL want the Sheraton” ?????

Haha keep talking to yourself, clearly you have no idea!


This isn’t even an option, so I don’t know why you keep going on about it.

If someone can escape quarantine to “go to the leagues club” that means the quarantine system isn’t good enough. Because there will always be idiots who try to do the wrong thing. Same as normal society, kind of why we have police and jails...

aviation_enthus 12th Jan 2021 02:06


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10965901)
Aviation Enthusiast:

Thank you for your reply. In answer to your question I would say: "Yes but". If the threat from Covid was static and constant and our local circumstances were constant then of course you are right. Our bureaucratic systems (Noun not adjective) would be expected to get considerably better over time.

However that is not the case at all. We are shooting at a moving target. The "Right" answer changes literally hour by hour. I would list the following non exhaustive list of factors to be considered:

- Our knowledge of the virus behaviour and effects is incomplete. In addition the virus is mutating, the latest South African and British strains being a major cause of concern so we are working with a snapshot of what we think this virus is like that changes with every new scientific paper. For example the latest advice (weekend) is that the current vaccines should be effective against mutations. If that were not the case our entire posture would have to be changed this week.

- our circumstances are changing. SIx months ago Victoria was cactus, now its NSW and Queensland's turn. Our response has to follow the local circumstances and change when they do.

Mistakes will be made. We must accept that. The alternative is to double and triple check every action in advance which means our response will take weeks or months and thus be useless since the rules are changing day by day.

We must accept errors. We must accept that actions will conflict with each other as 60,000 Victorians found out the hard way. To do otherwise will slow our response and make it useless.

I find it odd that some pilots are troubled by this situation. After all, once you are in the air you must make do with what you have and change your plans as circumstances change. To be a pilot needs a flexible mind set. Our public health people are having to apply this same sort of flexibility daily.

NSW and QLD are not cactus. Victoria needed to be locked down because the other elements (quarantine and contact tracing) had failed so badly Dan was left with no other option. So far NSW and QLD seem to be doing a reasonable job containing it. A bit of perspective is required.

The massive flow on effect to an already heavily restricted arrivals cap, means any changes should be for major reasons. Because delaying someone and their family by 5 months is not ok. I don’t think anyone with no visa, job, house and running out of money would consider themselves “lucky” to be given this news. The current outbreak of the “believed to be” more contagious variant, does not warrant this reaction in my opinion. Because of the effect it will have on arrivals....

I can accept things change as we learn more about the virus. So they should as required. But this is not a statement to hide behind when decision that are being made have serious consequences for the people affected. Especially when better policy options are available (and explained to you here).

brokenagain 12th Jan 2021 02:30


The current outbreak of the “believed to be” more contagious variant
So contagious that the only person that the Brisbane cleaner passed it onto was someone living her.

dr dre 12th Jan 2021 03:25


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 10966021)
So contagious that the only person that the Brisbane cleaner passed it onto was someone living her.

A testament to the cleaner and their partner for socially distancing and avoiding large amounts of contact whilst working in a high risk job.

The B117 strain IS more transmissible, that’s been scientifically proven. You can understand why all jurisdictions are very keen to not let this escape as it can cause serious issues over “regular” SARS-COV-2:

Southend Hospital oxygen supply reaches 'critical' situation

Dannyboy39 12th Jan 2021 06:20

There’s actually talk in the U.K. today about increasing social distancing to three metres because it is that contagious.

With all of the talk about baby boomers - some numbers. In the late Spring, the U.K. Chief Scientific Officer said that he believed there would be around 20,000 deaths and that would be a “good result.” At the end of 2020, we had around 78,000 deaths.

Out of that 78,000, only about 400 deaths came in those under the age of 50 and only 4000 under the age of 60. 18% of deaths are over the age of 90.

These are clearly a tragedy however I’d expect the vast majority of the western elderly population to have been vaccinated by late Spring and the death numbers going through the floor.

Ragnor 12th Jan 2021 07:28

McGoose must feel like a real goose today, Vic and QLD distancing themselves from his comments he made against NSW yesterday. Could it be Vic and QLD will have a different approach moving forward and aligning themself to what was originally agreed in national cabinet.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 12th Jan 2021 08:30

Extract from QLD "Mandatory Face Masks Direction"


Face mask requirements on domestic commercial flights


  1. A person on a domestic commercial aircraft must wear a face mask at all times on the aircraft while:
    1. the aircraft is located at a Queensland airport, including when the aircraft is landing at, or taking off from, the airport; or
    2. the aircraft is flying in Queensland airspace.

    Does Queensland even have airspace? Or is all airspace Federal? You can take your mask off when you fly across the border out of the state? What difference does that make to the conditions in the cabin?

    compressor stall 12th Jan 2021 08:42

    Small hint - if you're reading legal stuff, if it's in bold, that term should be defined in the document.

    If you scroll to the bottom and still awake, you will see that Queensland Airspace is defined for the purposes of the direction as the airspace located over Queensland. Pretty clear cut it would seem.


    WingNut60 12th Jan 2021 09:12


    Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10966076)
    ....................and aligning themself to what was originally agreed in national cabinet.

    I'm very interested to read what that agreement says.
    Can you please post a link.

    Icarus2001 12th Jan 2021 09:15


    If you scroll to the bottom and still awake, you will see that Queensland Airspace is defined for the purposes of the direction as the airspace located over Queensland. Pretty clear cut it would seem.
    Yes but there is the small matter of jurisdiction. A state government can write all the aviation rules they want but many are not "legal" and so become un-enforceable.

    One that springs to mind was a certain state trying to restrict aircraft to fly over wilderness areas above 5000 feet agl. They had no joy with that.

    Not that that has stopped both State and Federal governments bending the constitution during the Covid pandemic.

    itsnotthatbloodyhard 12th Jan 2021 09:18


    you will see that Queensland Airspace is defined for the purposes of the direction as the airspace located over Queensland. Pretty clear cut it would seem.
    Yes, but does the Queensland government have any authority to dictate what happens in the airspace above Queensland? Genuine question, not having a go at anyone. Just that I’m aware of CASA, Airservices Australia, ICAO, etc, as organisations that might influence what happens when flying around in Australian airspace - but individual state governments?? Any thoughts, PPrune lawyers?

    WingNut60 12th Jan 2021 09:18


    Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 10966143)
    ..........
    Not that that has stopped both State and Federal governments bending the constitution during the Covid pandemic.

    If you are referring to border closures then that matter has already been referred to the High Court and found to be allowable under the constitution.
    If you need confirmation, just ask Clive Palmer. Or ScoMo.

    KRviator 12th Jan 2021 09:27

    NSW is the same...with the same sort of ridiculous language. Got an email today from the local Airport Manager, the aero club hangar is a non-mask zone, but the club room, toilet and *cough* "Terminal" are must-be-masked zones.

    But where is Queensland itself defined? If you are landing RWY19 at Brisbane, can you have it off while you're over the Bay and put it back on again when you cross the mangroves? Does Anna-Stayaway's rule extend to the 12NM limit?


    Originally Posted by The NSW Legal-ese version
    The Minister directs that—
    (a) a person in Greater Sydney must wear a fitted face covering at all times when the person is at a public transport waiting area or in a vehicle, including a train or vessel, being used to provide a public transport service, including a taxi service, rideshare service or community transport service, and
    (b) a person in an indoor area of a NSW airport, including a passenger waiting area, must wear a fitted face covering at all times when in the area, and
    (c) a person on a domestic commercial aircraft that lands at, or takes off from, a NSW airport must wear a fitted face covering at all times when on the aircraft while—
    (i) the aircraft is located at a NSW airport, including when the aircraft is landing at, or taking off from, the airport, or
    (ii) the aircraft is flying in NSW airspace.

    I can see it now, "QLink 24Delta, Climb & Maintain Flight Level 250" -> "MMm umt hoo fi ze, Q unk ta" -> "Qlink 24Delta say again" -> "I've taken the stupid mask off, Climb Maintain Flight Level 250, QLink 24Delta"..."QLink 24Delta, possible pilot deviation, advise ready to copy"

    I had to wear the mask during my last flight review. It lasted until about the crosswind turn before I had to take it off to stop fogging up my glasses.

    compressor stall 12th Jan 2021 09:32

    Just like the Norwegian blue, jurisdiction "don't enter into it."

    The state of Queensland is not controlling the airspace in any way or aircraft access. It is just saying that if you are in an aircraft (with some caveats) in an area geographic area (airspace), you must wear a mask.


    I had to wear the mask during my last flight review. It lasted until about the crosswind turn before I had to take it off to stop fogging up my glasses.
    FWIW masks are expressly forbidden by Airbus in the cockpit as they are a safety hazard for that very reason, as well as other HF aspects of communication cues. Back locally, if you care to read the relevant Directions, both NSW and QLD address this issue stating that pilots don't need to wear masks in the cockpit.... but don't let that stop the hypotheticals.

    There are plenty of faults and gaping holes in rushed legislation in these COVID times, but that's not one of them....

    And as for the off shore limits, to be fair, even CASA struggle with that one....

    IWannaFly2020 12th Jan 2021 11:37

    Howard Springs to double capacity next month, probably a trial to see if they can handle even more. Could be the quarantine solution hopefully for the country. Get the quarantine out of the cities.

    Fliegenmong 12th Jan 2021 11:39

    From OOL Then....masks on at gate, off during taxy to line up on 32, on again at around about the 17/35 intersection off again 5 mins later heading South?


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