Jetstar EBA 2019
 

The negotiating strategy is always to delay until such time as there is sufficient 'back payment' and a correspondingly weaker economy with which to drive through desired change, with a little fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Ask US ALPA, it has been standard for decades.

Unfortunately, sometimes this is the only language management understands:

US $56 million loss from strike

If a pilot can be suspended without pay because their ASIC, passport, or medical is not renewed within a certain period before expiry, then shouldn't the same apply to the EBA ? Shouldn't the next EBA be also approved before the current EBA expires ?

If the EBA has expired, and there is obviously no "good faith" in negotiating the next one, isn't this a valid reason to apply for PIA NOW !

Or do we just let it drag on for another year or 2 so they can use back pay as an additional bargaining chip, whilst we miss out on a pay rise ?

There should only be 3 firm options NOW:
- present the new EBA NOW, which has been successfully negotiated with the reps
- otherwise in the meantime just pay the 3%, whilst negotiating the fine detail of the next EBA
- or apply for PIA NOW

That is interesting.
It would be an interesting day in court for that to be deemed appropriate and not punitive.
Your wider points highlight a problem of the 'system namely there is no risk or penalty applied to a company that drags it feet while the 'back pay' accumulates generating leverage against an employee group.

a_pilot,

Nope, the option you have failed to put is:

Let the negotiations drag out for at least 18 months beyond the current EBA expiry, negotiate the bare minimum required to get a slender majority to vote yes as most pilots won't support PIA and go off into the sunset knowing the company has saved 18 months of payrises buy dragging it all out.

The usual garbage has already started, I was told by a very senior manager last week that JANZ will be getting ALL of the A321 XLR's but has not been confirmed as it is pilot EBA time and they don't want grounds for more pay requests due to midhaul operations and that if the pilots as for too much those aircraft and its flying will go to more 'cost effective' pilot groups within the group. So the usual crap, dangle the shiny new aircraft at the gullible pilots and see how many will settle to ensure a change to fly them.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Yet in many other countries pilots are proving the omnipotent IR framework is vulnerable to changing the narrative of 'negotiation'

Are you going to repeat mistakes from the past ?

PIA NOW.

You don't actually have to wait 18 months or 2 years to file for PIA.

You don't have to wait for a document to be produced or to make a no vote.

You can apply for PIA anytime during negotiations after an expired agreement.

Are you going to allow them to deliberately stall you for another year or 2 ? Do something about it NOW.

Industrial action:

The EBA has expired and Jetstar is not genuinely trying to reach an agreement.

Doesn't this meet the criteria to file for PIA ?

The fact that the Chief Pilot has already stated in writing not to expect more than 3% indicates it will be a strong NO vote. You already know the expected EBA and the result of the vote.

Why wait 2 years for a document which you know will only give you 3% and you also miss out on a payrise in the meantime ?

Why wait 2 years and allow them to use back pay as leverage against you ?

Why wait 2 years for a document that you already know will be unacceptable ?

It is time for action NOW.

You have found the PIA information on the Fair Work web site. Look to the bottom of the page and see where the action can be terminated. You then need to understand may happen if action is terminated (hint - bargaining period of 21 days then a determination by Fair Work). You also need to understand that those criteria to terminate industrial action apply to employer response action. You also need to understand that employer response action is a lockout and does not need to be proportional to the employee claim action. So, you can do something that you think is pretty harmless and the company takes drastic response action that triggers a termination. If you think you will get a good outcome from a determination, you need to think about how the coalition government has been stacking the Fair Work Commission with pro-employer Deputy Presidents and Commissioners. Obviously, that is all worst-case, but you need to understand all of the implications if you are advocating for PIA.

I hope the boys and girls are up for a bit of a fight. As I've said before, of any NB 180 seat operator in Aus, JQ fly the largest aircraft, the most passengers, the longest distances and do the most sectors. All for the least amount of money in the country.

Something has to change. Any agreement that puts us behind Tiger (no disrespect to the fine people at Tiger) is just unacceptable in my view. Im certainly prepared to roll the dice on PIA should no progress be made towards that goal. I don't know how the commission looks at what we do, as described above, not to mention the increased capability offered by RNP, Cat iiib low vis etc etc, the fact we carry 60 extra people and adjudicates that we don't deserve at least parity with Tiger.

I hope it doesn't come to PIA, but I think in a years or two time, it may have to.

Why on earth are pilots scared of being locked out? It's a worry I have to share an enclosed space with you.

Given Little Napoleon's 'risk case' for the immediate grounding of Qantas in 2011 was in-fact the human factor risks, pilots ought have done exactly that; taken a break for at least a week as the 'human-factor' impact was digested.
As Paul Keating lamented, had Prime Minister Gillard not done anything, the problem would have been resolved in a week and Little Napoleon and the disingenuous bunch of misfits, loosely called a board would have been finished.

The grounding lock-out was a one shot deal. He executed.
Practically speaking, how could he ever 'de-transform' Qantas having assured all that he alone 'transformed a previously terminal business?

This optimiser comes in September, which will give us minimum rest between flights, and max length duty days otherwise also inconsistent work and sleep patterns, from early to late, with time zone changes and also back of the clock. Many patterns will include consecutive back of the clock with day rest only, and often away from home.

If we possibly might change the way we work effective September, this is all due the fatiguing patterns from the optimiser, nothing else.

If I can't sleep well during the day because I am not in my own bed, but at a hotel with noise outside, and if I can't do a back of the clock later that day, this is genuine fatigue. (remember our obligations regarding fitness for duty)

If I have minimum rest between lengthy duties, and choose to rest as long as I can, and come to work and commence my duties exactly at sign on, this is genuine resting as much as I can in the minimum allocated rest period before the next lengthy duty.

If we are feeling fatigued and no longer have the energy and enthusiasm anymore to do such things as come in 30 minutes early or earlier, this is because we are genuinely fatigued due to the optimiser.

Are you afraid of being locked out ?

Let them lock us out and take it to the FWC.

Where does it say anywhere that we must commence duties before sign on ?

There is nothing illegal with commencing work at sign on time. .

Do you think fair work will come back and say that we must commence work well before sign on ? Bring it on

Sounds fun, can't wait.

Perhaps more is less
 

From the SMH:
Tigerair ran at an $8 million loss in the first half of this year on an earnings before interest and tax basis, and a $36 million loss in 2018, adding to the Virgin Group's $653 million loss that year.

Perhaps the Tiger EBA may not be the panacea their pilots were looking for?

I think the point is, we can't really say that the Tiger deal is the new A320 benchmark in Australia as if the company goes bust in 12 months time and is wound up then what ever the EBA was is irrelevant. I can assure you that is what Jetstar will say in reaction to us saying 'we should get paid more than Tiger'. They will just say, they know how much cost they can associate with the new EBA and they won't go above that regardless of what the Tiger deal is, in their minds it will be 3%.

Wait, Watch and Absorb
 

The heliograph flashing from Village Virgin is that there is to be an announcement by COB Friday regarding the current status and future of Tiger.
The smart money is that Tiger will close, and be absorbed into Virgin, which at last glance, was north of $1.6B loss over the last 6 years. One opines that Virgin will be between nowhere and nowhere as it cannot compete with Qantas group's premium (sic) service, and cannot compete with Qantas group's low cost carrier services.
My tray table is stowed; my reclining seat/bed is now in the takeoff and landing position; and, am awaiting the onset of severe turbulence which is forecast.
Perhaps it is just a rumour, and will amount to nought. Perhaps.

And this wouldn't be the first time that a company has agreed a new employment agreement to keep the workers going until the end which was already planned for. Hopefully it is just rumour but it seems to be the sensible solution given the financial position of Virgin.

Yawn
 

The Tiger brand is damaged goods. Their EBA was agreed in order to just keep it flying until VA are ready to act, as Ollie has said. VA will regroup & restart in the LCC market & I reckon that the new entities EBA will be aligned exactly how they want it... just my 2c.

Wow. For a thread titled Jetstar EBA, there sure is a lot of interest in Virgin. When was the last time any worker group got their payrise by pointing at the competitor and saying "We deserve that, 'cause that's what they have???" Anybody? Bueller?