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-   -   Jetstar EBA 2019 (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/623279-jetstar-eba-2019-a.html)

SandyPalms 26th Nov 2019 21:23

Every time the media mention pilot remuneration, the next line will be 24 million. That’s what joe public will remember.

patty50 26th Nov 2019 21:38


Originally Posted by CamelSquadron (Post 10626075)
Highly paid professional going on strike asking for more money. You have completely lost touch with reality and you will get no support from Joe Public who just see you as greedy and selfish. Your playing right into the hands of management.

I think you’ll find the opposite is true. Most Australians are getting hammered by our benevolent corporations in some shape and support fighting back. No one thinks Alan deserves $24m. I’ve heard people say ‘why should Jetstar get paid less than the others for flying the same planes’. You will also find the pilots have significant support within the group.

People are comfortable with pilots making a decent amount of money and not many view 200k as mega dollars at least in Sydney or Melbourne.

Oriana 27th Nov 2019 00:31

I would expect that if JQ pilots were harassed or abused by passengers during any PIA, they will simply not fly their aircraft, and a new crew brought in.

Beer Baron 27th Nov 2019 00:43

This is an Enterprise Agreement, not a popularity contest, not a political campaign; public sentiment is largely irrelevant.
It is between employer and employee. It will be a business decision that governs what happens next. If it costs JQ too much money they will modify their behaviour, public sentiment won’t come into their calculation.

Not to say you will definitely get the outcome you desire but ignore the noise, fight for what you deserve because if you don’t fight then you have already lost.

Good luck.

Clipster 27th Nov 2019 01:15

RESPECT.
 

Originally Posted by Beer Baron (Post 10627355)
This is an Enterprise Agreement, not a popularity contest, not a political campaign; public sentiment is largely irrelevant.
It is between employer and employee. It will be a business decision that governs what happens next. If it costs JQ too much money they will modify their behaviour, public sentiment won’t come into their calculation.

Not to say you will definitely get the outcome you desire but ignore the noise, fight for what you deserve because if you don’t fight then you have already lost.

Good luck.


Eloquent and accurate 👍🏿

waren9 27th Nov 2019 02:25

could not agree more.

Vindiesel 27th Nov 2019 02:37


Originally Posted by Beer Baron (Post 10627355)
If it costs JQ too much money they will modify their behaviour, public sentiment won’t come into their calculation.


If by 'it' you mean Jetstar pilot PIA, I think you'll find reality is a little more complicated than that.

virgindriver 27th Nov 2019 05:29

I think sometimes you have to take some tougher action to get anywhere.

Wasn’t Mr Joyce praised for this a few years ago?

Its not like they are going to find anyone else to under cut you?

Good luck and I hope you guys succeed instead of being trodden on all the time.

Thommo_au 30th Nov 2019 10:55


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 10627282)
support fighting back.

I am a long tiime lurker and I registered just to post on this thread. If there is industrial action at Christmas people will blame the Jetstar pilots and hate them with a passion. For the direct personal consequences including financial loss and disruption. It is completely ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Because it is the pilots that have chosen the timing. I'd also say the company is already doing better media on this to ensure the pilots are blamed too.

Even those people not directly impacted will understand what people are going through and have sympathy. Pilots will be seen as greedy Christmas wreaking bastards.

The name is Porter 1st Dec 2019 01:21


I am a long tiime lurker and I registered just to post on this thread. If there is industrial action at Christmas people will blame the Jetstar pilots and hate them with a passion. For the direct personal consequences including financial loss and disruption. It is completely ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Because it is the pilots that have chosen the timing. I'd also say the company is already doing better media on this to ensure the pilots are blamed too.

Even those people not directly impacted will understand what people are going through and have sympathy. Pilots will be seen as greedy Christmas wreaking bastards.
Long time lurker eh?? Doubt it, pretty transparent who you are.

Completely wrong, I too have been involved in PIA. There were no such consequences.

Paddleboat 1st Dec 2019 02:16


Originally Posted by Thommo_au (Post 10629651)
I am a long tiime lurker and I registered just to post on this thread. If there is industrial action at Christmas people will blame the Jetstar pilots and hate them with a passion. For the direct personal consequences including financial loss and disruption. It is completely ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Because it is the pilots that have chosen the timing. I'd also say the company is already doing better media on this to ensure the pilots are blamed too.

Even those people not directly impacted will understand what people are going through and have sympathy. Pilots will be seen as greedy Christmas wreaking bastards.

Public opinion wont' decide the outcome of JQ's PIA. Further, on the line I've noticed quite vocal support from our pax. People are sick of executives making millions off the backs of their employees. The blowback will be nothing like you suggest.

PoppaJo 1st Dec 2019 02:45

Thommo you sound like one of those Alan believers?

I can assure you any negative passenger vibes seen on the nightly news will be forgotten very fast. Impact to revenue will be almost zero.

Lowest fare wins in this demographic. They might be swearing and threatening to never fly this mob again, however on the next Bali or Cooly trip when they have a choice of a $39 Jetstar or $120 Virgin flight.....I wonder who wins.

The media need to ask Gareth if his pilots are the lowest paid Airbus drivers in part of the world. I’d love to see the reply. You wouldn’t get a straight answer out of any manager within the group.

Any quality and decent investigative journalist probably needs to look past the passenger fluffy drama and look into the corporate greed vs lowest paid front line workers within in its industry. Just look at Woolworths recently.

Jetstar also recently stated it has a target of a 21% profit margin in the medium term, which is nearly double the current margin. Adding into the mix it’s outrageous executive remuneration figures, claiming they can’t afford to get its pilots off the lowest paid ladder is beyond absurd.

Berealgetreal 1st Dec 2019 03:05


when they have a choice of a $39 Jetstar or $120 Virgin flight.....I wonder who wins.
No need to wonder.

Blueskymine 1st Dec 2019 03:32

Trento and Stella will be screaming, but when there’s holes in the Bintang singlet and the craving for that Indonesian Pilsner bites, if Jetstar is $10 cheaper. They’ll after pay it and max the credit card on the way up with in flight booze.

I hope JQ get the parity with the other drivers they deserve.

patty50 1st Dec 2019 10:48


Originally Posted by Thommo_au (Post 10629651)
If there is industrial action at Christmas people will blame the Jetstar pilots and hate them with a passion.

Even those people not directly impacted will understand what people are going through and have sympathy. Pilots will be seen as greedy Christmas wreaking bastards.


I don’t think they will. You underestimate how much ordinary people hate corporate leaders. Joyce and henchmen have zero credibility in calling anyone overpaid.

The PIA involves plenty of things with no to minimal impact on passengers and there will still be a couple of 747s laying around if a real strike eventuates.

Lookleft 2nd Dec 2019 00:38


The PIA involves plenty of things with no to minimal impact on passengers and there will still be a couple of 747s laying around if a real strike eventuates.
Under current laws one of those options is legal and the other is not.

LostontheLOC 2nd Dec 2019 14:56


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 10630630)
Under current laws one of those options is legal and the other is not.

What are you on about?

strobes_on 2nd Dec 2019 19:11

I suspect he means that PIA is OK but a strike is not

LostontheLOC 3rd Dec 2019 03:25


Originally Posted by strobes_on (Post 10631174)
I suspect he means that PIA is OK but a strike is not

​​​​​​A "Strike" is just the old term for industrial action..

Lookleft 3rd Dec 2019 22:16


A "Strike" is just the old term for industrial action..
No its not :

Strike action, also called labor strike, labour strike, or simply strike, is a work stoppage, caused by the mass refusal of employees to work.
(Wikipedia)

Which is why PIA is legal under very restrictive criteria and "going on strike" is illegal.

FOI 3rd Dec 2019 23:08


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 10632019)
No its not : (Wikipedia)

Which is why PIA is legal under very restrictive criteria and "going on strike" is illegal.

A stoppage of work be it stand-alone periods or consecutive 4 / 24 hour periods = the definition of a STRIKE and you don’t get paid for it.

“Protected” just means it’s ratified as an approved action by the FWC.

Lookleft 4th Dec 2019 00:14

The original statement was that a strike was the old term for industrial action. It is not, a strike means the withdrawal of labour. The phrase "going on strike" was used when labour was withdrawn with little or no prior notice. I think a lot of younger people have never seen what going on strike actually looked like. Not a criticism but the fact that they haven't seen it is a result of the tightening of industrial laws since the Accord.

dragon man 4th Dec 2019 05:37

Jetstar going the extra yard I believe to get any AIPA members on long term sick leave back to work. I wonder why?

Blueskymine 4th Dec 2019 06:48

80 odd Aipa members aren’t going to do much.

LostontheLOC 4th Dec 2019 07:04


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 10632019)
No its not : (Wikipedia)

Which is why PIA is legal under very restrictive criteria and "going on strike" is illegal.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/industrial-ac...ustrial-action

"Industrial action where there is a failure or refusal by employees to attend for work, or a failure or refusal to perform any work at all by employees who attend for work, is historically known as a strike."

Anyway - I have heard AIPA is still negotiating with Jetstar, how can they bring a solution with so few members?

dragon man 4th Dec 2019 07:07


Originally Posted by LostontheLOC (Post 10632162)
https://www.fwc.gov.au/industrial-ac...ustrial-action

"Industrial action where there is a failure or refusal by employees to attend for work, or a failure or refusal to perform any work at all by employees who attend for work, is historically known as a strike."

Anyway - I have heard AIPA is still negotiating with Jetstar, how can they bring a solution with so few members?

They want to appear to be doing something, anything. Like a duck paddling madly against the tide and going no where.

Ollie Onion 4th Dec 2019 07:35

They don’t think they can reach a settlement based on AIPA members but the Company love a fractured pilot group so would like nothing better than AIPA members bending the ear of other pilots talking up what a great deal they have.

Paddleboat 4th Dec 2019 08:00


Originally Posted by Ollie Onion (Post 10632183)
They don’t think they can reach a settlement based on AIPA members but the Company love a fractured pilot group so would like nothing better than AIPA members bending the ear of other pilots talking up what a great deal they have.

Interesting times no doubt. First time I believe that there has been a large shift towards single union membership in JQ's negotiations. AIPA numbers are inflated due to the many who have retained dual membership because of LOL complications. I don't see them having a role to play in future negotiations. What can the company offer them thats going to sway the rest of the pilot group? Free lanyards?

wheels_down 6th Dec 2019 04:42

So it seems the ground crews will be causing the disruptions this month, the AFAP are not taking action until next month as they did with TT.

LostontheLOC 6th Dec 2019 06:03

Looks like the first actions are happening on the 14th this month, continuing for the week after that.

Wasi Wasamadroota 6th Dec 2019 06:40

Red Ties
 
4 hour wearing of RED TIES. That will show them!!!!!!!!!!!

errrrrrrr no


This afternoon, the AFAP provided notice to the Company that PIA will commenceon Saturday 14 December in the form of the following bans/actions:

1. A four (4) hour stoppage of all work from:
  • 0459 - 0859 local time on Saturday 14th and Sunday 15 December for Narrow Body pilots.
  • 1430 – 1830 local time on Saturday 14th December for Wide Body pilots.
  • 0930 – 1330 local time on Sunday 15th December for Wide Body pilots.
2. A ban on working on any of the following days:
  • designated days off;
  • duty free days;
  • annual leave days; and
  • long service leave days.
3. A ban on answering phone calls from Jetstar crewing except whilst on standby or during a reassignable contactable period as stipulated in clause 15.1.4 and 15.2.7 of the Roster Protocol.

4. A ban on the performance of any duty that is not on a pilot’s originally published roster, excluding rostered standby.

5. A ban on extending a single or multi-day tour of duty beyond the times stipulated in clause 15 of the Roster Protocol.

These bans (except for the 4-hour stoppages) will initially run until 2359 on 20 December 2019.

Ngineer 6th Dec 2019 09:00


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10633530)
So it seems the ground crews will be causing the disruptions this month, the AFAP are not taking action until next month as they did with TT.

Should be interesting to watch. My guess (from prev experience) is the standard lockout of employees and replacement with strike-breakers.

Ollie Onion 6th Dec 2019 09:14

Good luck everyone, I am watching with interest.

The name is Porter 6th Dec 2019 09:33

Good Lord, if they're going to trot the moron out that was on the news tonight to dis-credit you, you've got it won.

Rated De 6th Dec 2019 09:50


Originally Posted by Wasi Wasamadroota (Post 10633568)
4 hour wearing of RED TIES. That will show them!!!!!!!!!!!

errrrrrrr no

What manufactured crisis can Fort Fumble generate?

First class travel, kamikaze and massages...
With zero wage growth and an explosion of personal debt, people broadly are tapped out.
Robber barons like Alan Joyce's $24 million is not a good optic.

Angle of Attack 6th Dec 2019 10:08

This is perfect Jetstar, Shorthaul both EBA’s rejected and LH in a **** spin, this is where we want it, PIA about to happen in Jetstar, I’d suggest agree to nothing and keep these bastards in the lurch, United we win. Hopefully some PIA from shorthaul to reduce their options. If we all stand together we will slaughter them, it’s basic maths, not masters ��

Paddleboat 6th Dec 2019 11:05


Originally Posted by The name is Porter (Post 10633641)
Good Lord, if they're going to trot the moron out that was on the news tonight to dis-credit you, you've got it won.

For all their bravado, they've got some interesting strategies. They have repeatedly said they have no concerns for the ground staff strike, as they have 'strong contingencies in place'. Turn out, that 'strong contingency' is to take a bunch of latte sipping twits from head office, give them a days training and then let them loose, all at the same time, on the heavy ground equipment to load the aircraft.

I wonder if JQ can set a dual world record for the number of 320's sat on their tail / ULD Loaders driven into wings.

I hope someone manages to get video of the Kalmar driving down the M5 never to be seen again.


ALAEA Fed Sec 6th Dec 2019 20:18

Just wanting to offer some assistance to you guys but I don't really know any of the AFAP officials. 12 months ago the Jetstar LAMEs voted in favour of PIA. Ultimately they didn't take action as we settled before then but an interesting thing occurred that I am more than happy to share.

Some clutz of a manager was rushing for a flight and left a folder in an Engineering section. Within the folder were all his notes from every EA meeting, legal advice on how to handle PIA at Jetstar and other associated internal info. Although the docs were predominantly Engineering related, it may give some insight into the company and the way they will tackle PIA.

If someone from AFAP emails me at [email protected] I would be more than happy to forward every piece of info.

cheers and good luck

ernestkgann 6th Dec 2019 20:25

The AFAP talking heads need to get onto their media strategy and breakdown this $300k figure the shiny bums are promoting.

Gear in transit 6th Dec 2019 20:55

I don’t think it really matters anymore. The company is flashing this 300k figure like it’s a bombshell going to knock out any wage claim we may have. In reality, we’re the lowest paid of any pilot group for comparable work and the Afap can prove that.
Add to that the QF exec remuneration and it’s a stupid tactic that really just magnifies managements ridiculous salaries and IR ‘techniques.’

Eaxh and every time there has been an issue with pilot vs company (Insert any of the companies here) the wage card is the first one played. If the general public doesn’t know roughly what a pilot gets paid by now, it’s because they don’t give a sh!t.


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