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Originally Posted by dashate
(Post 10642307)
Refer to post #411
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
(Post 10641551)
I’m over the whole thing. We threatened PIA to try and get the company to negotiate properly (like we did successfully in 2015) and it has had the opposite effect. What are we fighting for exactly now? The union has agreed to 3%. We’re essentially arguing over the costing of a minimum daily credit. I’d sign the current EBA plus 3 per cent increases tomorrow just to have this disaster behind me. |
I think we can safely assume that not everyone on here is who they are claiming to be. The rhetoric very coherent and robust amongst the individuals that count. Good luck to the men and women of JQ. |
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
(Post 10641585)
thats actually pretty funny, credit where credit is due! But, im just a line pilot looking at this whole situation getting out of control. If I thought PIA would get us a decent pay rise and increase in lifestyle, I’d be all for it. But the way things have played out I just can’t see that happening. I hope I’m wrong! |
Management trolls, Qantas Angels, AIPA Angels.....listen to yourselves. Your like children thinking there is a bogey man in the dark. LOL.
Dont think that taking PIA is free. There is a price to be paid by both the company and the employees. Take the emotion out of this. Sideline the fools who just want to fight. Your professionals so behave like professionals. Think logically and find the middle ground. |
Would someone please clarify this for me?
It seems that you fellas in JQ have AIPA members, and AFAP members. Further, the AIPA blokes are not supporting PIA. The AFAP fellows are, obviously, going it alone. If this brings management back to the table for continued and sensible discussion, then the AIPA cats benefit also, but with no actual input, action or risk. What have I missed here? |
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 10642446)
Take the emotion out of this. Sideline the fools who just want to fight. Your professionals so behave like professionals. Think logically and find the middle ground.
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Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 10642446)
Management trolls, Qantas Angels, AIPA Angels.....listen to yourselves. Your like children thinking there is a bogey man in the dark. LOL.
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 10642446)
Dont think that taking PIA is free.
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 10642446)
Take the emotion out of this. Sideline the fools who just want to fight. Your professionals so behave like professionals. Think logically and find the middle ground.
I wonder if you appreciate the irony of your position. You criticize us for failing to find the middle ground with the company (whilst of course never criticizing the company for the same), whilst dismissing or ignoring any reasoned argument that counters your position, digging your heals in precisely as you accuse the pilot body of doing. Looking at your post history, it clear this isn't new behavior. |
CamelSquadron: Take the emotion out of this. Sideline the fools who just want to fight. Your professionals so behave like professionals. Think logically and find the middle ground. |
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
(Post 10642446)
Take the emotion out of this. Sideline the fools who just want to fight. Your professionals so behave like professionals. Think logically and find the middle ground.
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“Your like children thinking there is a bogey man in the dark. LOL.” “Your professionals so behave like professionals.” If You’re such a professional CamelToe, why not spell like You’re a professional. |
Originally Posted by Sunfish
(Post 10642461)
CamelSquadron: There it is! The call of the Qantas troll! “Be professional”! Meaning don’t fight for your future because it’s unprofessional. Says who? Ever met a poor surgeon or Judge? You are engaged in a contest, not a beauty pageant! No one said it was going to be easy to find the middle ground. But you need to find it otherwise you wont get a deal done and everyone is going to be a loser. |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10642470)
“Your like children thinking there is a bogey man in the dark. LOL.” “Your professionals so behave like professionals.” If You’re such a professional CamelToe, why not spell like You’re a professional. Good to see that you can focus on the immaterial details rather than the important stuff. |
So if you don’t echo the opinion of others you’re labelled a management troll?
The only way I could refute that would be to break the anonymity of this forum, which of course I will not. People have different opinions on this situation. You don’t have to agree with them, but you definitely don’t need to vilify them. |
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
(Post 10642487)
So if you don’t echo the opinion of others you’re labelled a management troll?
The only way I could refute that would be to break the anonymity of this forum, which of course I will not. People have different opinions on this situation. You don’t have to agree with them, but you definitely don’t need to vilify them. |
Put him on ignore, its now patently clear he's not here to discuss or debate, but to evade and incite. The very definition of a troll. Read his post history, he/she is clearly QF management.
Count the number of times he's avoided my specific addressing and rebuttal of his posts ECAM. This has nothing to do with labeling dissenting opinions adversely, and everything to do with his intent, which is now clear. |
One thing that I think gets forgotten by many is the 10% equivalent wage freeze suffered by all in the Qantas group. When record amounts of money are going to management and Jetstar pilots I think it is fair to say are paid under what they should be. |
Originally Posted by Paddleboat
(Post 10642493)
he/she is clearly QF management.
This has nothing to do with labeling dissenting opinions adversely, and everything to do with his intent, which is now clear. You are doing exactly what you are claiming you are not doing. You are talking with a forked tongue. You are labeling a dissenting opinion because you dont like it. Based on this behaviour, can anyone believe a single word you write in this forum? You say one thing but do the opposite. Anyway lets stop playing the person here and try to stick to the underlying topic. I wont say anymore on this. |
Originally Posted by CamelSquadron
Based on this behaviour, can anyone believe a single word you write in this forum? You say one thing but do the opposite.
So, now that you've shown you're able to see my posts, I have written 2 in direct response to you, challenging the assertions you have made in this thread. I have repeatedly given you opportunity to respond to the points I've made, only to be met with silence. Stop ignoring arguments you don't like and address what has been said. You can start here. https://www.pprune.org/showpost.php?p=10641674&postcount=397 |
A worthy read for anyone embarking on PIA, a highly detailed analysis of the 2011 Qantas lockout: OF ‘KAMIKAZES’ AND ‘MAD MEN’: THE FALLOUT FROM THE QANTAS INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE
from page 827 (note, it's a journal entry, the entire document is 46 pages) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f978760e4.png |
Camel squadron: You have no idea who I am, who I work for, what I do or even what sex I maybe. You have absolutely no idea. You are doing exactly what you are claiming you are not doing. You are talking with a forked tongue. You are labeling a dissenting opinion because you dont like it. Based on this behaviour, can anyone believe a single word you write in this forum? You say one thing but do the opposite. Anyway lets stop playing the person here and try to stick to the underlying topic. I wont say anymore on this. you then reappeared from time to time defending Qantas management until these negotiations started when you suddenly reappeared spreading the same fear uncertainty and doubt amongst the Jetstar pilot group. You are not presenting a "dissenting opinion, you are deliberately spreading poison. Thats why I asked in post #209: "have you been asked to "be professional" yet? And then at post #416, bingo! Camelsquadron makes that call! But wait.....there's more..... in post #423 Camelsquadron opines : You are jumping at shadows in the dark. "Behave like a professional" means your smart and intelligent so think logically and find that middle ground. Dont behave like a laborer on a construction site and get all emotional about it. Begone troll! |
Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher
(Post 10642517)
A worthy read for anyone embarking on PIA, a highly detailed analysis of the 2011 Qantas lockout: OF ‘KAMIKAZES’ AND ‘MAD MEN’: THE FALLOUT FROM THE QANTAS INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE
from page 827 (note, it's a journal entry, the entire document is 46 pages) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f978760e4.png And the abstract is titled: Spare No expense to save labour cost, or picking up pennies in front of steam rollers.. |
Camel guy can you be specific about what’s going to happen to us? You seem to know something we don’t |
Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher
(Post 10642517)
A worthy read for anyone embarking on PIA, a highly detailed analysis of the 2011 Qantas lockout: OF ‘KAMIKAZES’ AND ‘MAD MEN’: THE FALLOUT FROM THE QANTAS INDUSTRIAL DISPUTE
from page 827 (note, it's a journal entry, the entire document is 46 pages) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6f978760e4.png |
Qantas Management didn’t exactly walk away winners after the FWA arbitration post lock out of the Mainline workers last time ! What + $200 million in cost to end up with essentially the same Contracts post FWA arbitrated fiddle , Alan’s an $85 million winner baby and don’t you let anyone tell you otherwise ! |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....df23bcf81b.jpg
Posted without comment |
Doesn’t that article just some it all up beautifully. |
$22 /hour
These guys will be working in 44deg heat for around $22 per hour (melbourne forecast) today whilst other people are being paid $3m a year to tell lies in the media & belittle them as if they are 2nd class citizens.
They are asking for a few bucks a week & some recognition for what they do. Making the business profitable is important but it doesnt have to be done with no respect for the people earning the least salary & providing a crucial service. I wonder how much money has been spent on exec Xmas parties this week. Shame on all of them,they make me sick. |
Originally Posted by blubak
(Post 10643750)
These guys will be working in 44deg heat for around $22 per hour (melbourne forecast) today whilst other people are being paid $3m a year to tell lies in the media & belittle them as if they are 2nd class citizens.
They are asking for a few bucks a week & some recognition for what they do. Making the business profitable is important but it doesnt have to be done with no respect for the people earning the least salary & providing a crucial service. I wonder how much money has been spent on exec Xmas parties this week. Shame on all of them,they make me sick. |
The next step course, I wonder how much that cost? |
'It could get ugly' @ https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...18-p53l3g.html
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If he locks out pilots it ends up in FWA I believe, do I think Jetstar pilots will do better there, yes. Just a personal feeling that all. |
Considering what we do compared to our competitors, and the respective pay, I think arbitration is the best we can hope for.
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Did Tiger end up in Arbitration? How did they get Management talking 2 months after PIA started? |
https://newmatilda.com/2019/12/19/qa...gage-handlers/ I don’t think Jetstar is winning the PR battle this time! |
That’s a great article, I hope the baggage handlers get what they are asking for which seems to be very sensible. |
From Wiki’ “newmatilda.com, commonly known as New Matilda, is a left-wing independent Australian website of news, analysis and satire.” All power to the New Matilda but she ain’t exactly front page of the SMH or OZ. |
Originally Posted by dragon man
(Post 10643966)
If he locks out pilots it ends up in FWA I believe, do I think Jetstar pilots will do better there, yes. Just a personal feeling that all. And what makes you think there will be a positive outcome for pilots if it does? |
Originally Posted by ddrwk
(Post 10645518)
Why do you think it necessarily ends up in the FWC for arbitration? Maybe the law. If mediation and conciliation don’t achieve an agreed outcome, then it proceeds to arbitration, according to the FWC. And what makes you think there will be a positive outcome for pilots if it does? |
Back of the clocks becoming overnights is a step in the right direction. I’m surprised the company didn’t try and integrate it into the negotiation so they could ‘sell’ it to us. It’s been a long time coming but is a major issue that has finally been addressed. |
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