Lookleft , surely all pilots benefit from a higher ODTA from being away from base (with thanks to the optimiser) and is Perth flying being rostered exclusively to former western lads? Looking from the outside.

Can anyone who is currently Melbourne based give an indication of lifestyle and rostering? I know it's far from a lifestyle base but how busy is it at the moment for the crews currently

Yes they will do, assuming the optimiser doesn’t decide that touring duties are expensive as a result of ODTA and the layover highline scheme (get paid for your hours away from base in addition to accruing allowances).

The ex-Perth pilot thing is a dead cat being thrown on the table by the telegram mob to try and discredit the proposal by attacking the integrity of the negotiating team. Ex-PER pilots whose families still reside in WA will naturally bid for tours involving PER layovers, many other pilots will probably bid to avoid them, guess where Jbid will allocate PER overnights as a result. But for the hard of thinking this is used as a weapon to encourage division.

The integrity of the negotiating team was discredited when they threw the dead cat on the table that is the IPA. The thing about overnights is that a lot of pilots don't want them, after all Jetstar was supposed to be all about not having to overnight. So why would you build up the allowance for overnights? Why wouldn't you actually try and negotiate an increase in an allowance that all pilots receive instead of getting rid of it all together? Other than the 3% (which they also didn't negotiate) all the rest of it is made up of assumptions about what pilots may or may not do. The one allowance that is guaranteed they got rid of. A good weathervane of intent is the F/O's attitude to the IPA. No one I have flown with recently has stated an intention to vote for it. It seems strange to me that the one Union that led the charge on PIA before there was an agreement is now leading the charge on accepting an agreement with all the talk of "grounded planes at Christmas" vanishing into thin air like pixie dust.

Given the NEO aircraft that are due, and more specifically the range of those aircraft, is it not likely that the entire nature of flying that JQ pilots do is quite possibly changing? I can see a lot more flying up to Asia, with the subsequent increase in overnights.

And doesn’t DTA increase as well - an allowance that all pilots get?

And what about the initial increases to base salary to comply with the Award? It was only the most junior FO level that wasn’t compliant with salary in the award. I’m fairly confident QF IR wouldn’t have been keen to just hand over that equivalent increase to all other pilots - so it’s fair to assume that increase is probably down to some tough negotiating.

But that probably doesn’t fit the narrative of personally attacking those involved does it?

Gee lookleft, you sound like one of those ignorant and irrelevant AIPA negotiators. Here’s a lesson in the BOOT. Any “guaranteed payment for all pilots” or what you call the IPA (iPad Agreement) will reduce what the AIPA muppets call the “BOOT BOOST” in their latest update. So if the iPad payment was kept, it would reduce the award compliance payment by the same amount – about 1.5%. By moving it as the AFAP did, they have increased the award compliance by 1.5%, and funded something else worth at least 1.5%, so a net increase of 3% from the initial position.

If you idiots can’t do basic math or understand how the award works, you should leave it to the people who can. Straight up, AIPA would negotiate a position that is 3% worse. Increases in layover payments including highline and ODTA are a very smart thing as the fleet plan for Jetstar includes 18LR’s and 20 XLR’s. Only a moron would think there are not going to be additional overnights with that fleet.

Do the ex PH pilots have JBid? I sure don’t.

Right so we vote for something based on airframes that haven't even arrived and history has shown are often deferred or cancelled. The LRs seem to be doing CNS returns and the XLRs are due when? Keith you very publicly highlight the problem with the AFAP. No willingness to work with anyone else and an arrogance that makes Putin look like Forrest Gump. You lost a lot of people during that ridiculous PIA that cost the pilots 3% from 2020 and you now just assume that because the AFAP has decreed the pilots will follow. Put it to the vote then and see what your constituents think. After all you should be doing this for the benefit of all the pilots and not just the WA cabal.

Jesus Christ, this AFAP v AIPA rubbish is getting very Old. Just sort out a deal that actually values the pilot group FFS. :ugh: No one that has joined in the last 10 years gives a toss what union does what. If you can't get over it just retire already and leave the negotiations to the crews that are going to live with it for the next thirty years.
They just want to be respected and remunerated in line with what they provide to the group. They're sick of being treated like trash because they work for JQ. That 30 year career at JQ is fast becoming untenable. If this deal gets up it's time to start planning an exit me thinks.

Are you a Jetstar NB pilot? If you’re not then PER overnights are irrelevant to you, if you are then you’ve missed a lot of emails about how your working practices have changed.
nb I think jbid Is now open to WB JQ pilots as well so you should really catch up but there aren’t any 788 flights ex-PER so don’t waste a bid.

Don’t be so sure. Cairns to Japan perhaps and some DPS, however even that is questionable due slot and capacity constraints. I think you will find them to be largely domestic.

Order book was originally 320N. Has been changed a million times since, Airbus won’t budge on any contract changes unless you spend more cash with them, then you get to play with dates and payment schedules.

Two unions infighting amongst themselves as usual.

Once again, ZERO result for the members ( Jetstar pilots ). Realistically, what has either union achived for the pilot group in the last 10 years? Nothing.

Management are laughing at us all. As usual.

This situation is simply untenable.

MCD

MCD - you are simply lying. Not sure what your agenda is other than just blind hate for your employer which you seem to have turned into a sport due lack of any other interests.

You haven’t even been to a roadshow yet in order to come to any serious conclusions or ask any questions.

From what I’ve seen, this is was a good deal, turned into an excellent deal with last weeks 3% announcement. A multitude of lifestyle improvements (something that most on here can’t seem to define what they actually mean by the the term) and an immediate 12% pay rise with 18% over the life of the agreement. That’s before you consider the incremental increases in EFA / WDO / DTA / ODTA etc, 50% highline paid from sign-on to sign-off on multi day trips…. PLUS PLUS.

If you carry on like a petulant child with claims this is the worst deal you’ve ever seen, then you must be:
1. Ignorant,
2. Grinding a personal axe,
3. Incapable of ever being satisfied,
4. High, or
5. All of the above.

If we vote this down we look really stupid. Look around you, if you can’t see how good a deal this is given the state of the world, then you’re walking around blind with no cane.

Yeah except for the minor point that PIA was followed a matter of weeks by a pandemic that lasted the better part of 18 months - which is what ‘cost’ the 3%.

And yet now given the extremely uncertain global economic outlook, you’re pontificating about voting down an agreement worth 18%?

The WA Cabal - a continuation of the personal attacks says more about your character than those who give up extraordinary amounts of their own time and who have negotiated what looks to be so far a pretty good deal. And come the roadshows - I’d expect a majority of JQ pilots will agree.

Spot on and completely agree regarding those that put in the hard yards to get this deal here. If only MCD and LL invested as much time and energy as they do in bitching like children towards something productive like those bargaining reps….

Not sure what you’re on about I was making reference to another comment
“Ex-PER pilots whose families still reside in WA will naturally bid for tours involving PER layovers”

I was making mention if they bid and get them they must have Jbid, Because Jbid is not working for me and many others I know.

FOI thanks for the post.

Thats one of the funniest this year.

Best of luck with that.

MCD

All those extras you mention come at a penalty, highline they want flexibility so we have to check our rosters for a duty until a time that the company specified. May as well get rid of highline make it an extra reserve, whilst we are on reserves there will be 4 below 75hrs now and that extra half WDO for finishing after 23:00 before a day off does not benefit SY or ADL base with curfew so you will be signed off before 23:00. WDO increase who cares i would be happy if we removed that clause all together might actually stimulate some decent crew numbers. I could go on but I will not be convinced it’s a good deal because they offer what we really should be on with normal CPI increases over last 4yrs while giving more lifestyle conditions.

JBID was sold to the pilot group as a magical carpet ride into a life of customised rosters and endless opportunities.

The end result, in my opinion, has been diabolical, and no one seems to be talking about it….

My “lifestyle” is at an all time LOW

My roster is the most fatiguing it’s EVER been considering the rostered number of hours.

Getting a few requested days off in a month….. don’t even get me started…. the whole things is a sham.
And they wonder why sick leave is at an all time high.

Add JBID to the list of lies we’ve been subject too for the last decade.

Do you really think that checking for a next day’s duty by 1700 the day before is both a material “penalty” and akin to an extra standby? I for one do not, given what I’m getting for it. As for now being remunerated for a misconnection into a day off, 4 hours at EFA rate between 2300-0100 and a WDO beyond that, is a far cry from the DIL I currently get that I can never use, which = zero. Are you seriously suggesting all improvements should be designed bespoke to a specific base because of curfews? I’d suggest we keep an eye on the bigger picture. We have some of the most restrictive standby provisions of any airline, that are very much in our favour. Restrictions on standby days via a table appended to above or below threshold is and always has been extraordinary. The company will not “simulate decent crew numbers” in lieu of a WDO provision, nor should we think that’s something we want. The nature of a leisure airline model is very cyclical in a year with its peaks and troughs, they can bump up the revenue exponentially in peaks relying on WDOs to get around our highly restrictive standby coverage limits. Works for those that want the cash, if you don’t wish to lose your DDO, don’t put your name on the list… Simply adding pilots to kill off that flexibility is dumb business and of course they won’t do that.

As for the CPI argument, well we were the masters of our own demise 3 years ago in our actions. We put ourselves behind, sorry, that’s the reality. And the “what we should be on anyway “ argument, sorry but again that’s ridiculous. All the company has to do is satisfy the BOOT, they’re under no legal obligations here to do anything but that. This well exceeds the BOOT as far as I can tell.

Whilst everything traded in this EA comes at a cost, or “penalty” as you see it, I can see we’ve given very little away for immense benefit to us overall.

Vote this down at our own peril. If you think our predicament was bad from knocking back the 3%’s, 3 years ago and entering PIA, then try this on for size and learn the hardest lesson we’ll ever learn.