|
It wasn’t part of the negotiation as the company has been forced to do it. They are going to have to instigate CAO 48 due to their failure to get a FRMS approved and under this regime BOC’s are not possible or are horribly restrictive so I think they are changing at their own convenience instead of being forced allmat once. |
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
(Post 10645988)
Back of the clocks becoming overnights is a step in the right direction. I’m surprised the company didn’t try and integrate it into the negotiation so they could ‘sell’ it to us. It’s been a long time coming but is a major issue that has finally been addressed. |
If it was going to happen anyway, why was it in the unions log of claims? my understanding is the MEL-PER-MEL was still legal under CAO 48.1 |
my understanding is the MEL-PER-MEL was still legal under CAO 48.1 |
The avalanche of fatigue reports probably helped as well. |
I was told straight from the horses mouth that the intro of CAO48.1 was the reason they were splitting the BOC’s and that without this they would be remaining. main delay was ensuring enough crew to do it. The unions on both sides of the Tasman are claiming victory with this but it was always going to happen, it was first mentioned to me about 6 months ago with the aim of implementation by Xmas. They almost made it :-) |
The avalanche of fatigue reports probably helped as well. |
Originally Posted by Lookleft
(Post 10646506)
You mean the fatigue reports that have been submitted for the last 15 years?
|
Originally Posted by Ragnor
(Post 10646386)
CAO 48.1! Don’t think for a second that they are doing to be nice, it’s because they have to. |
It could rain hundred dollar bills and you lot would still whine like spoilt children. It’s getting tiresome. |
It could rain hundred dollar bills and you lot would still whine like spoilt children. It’s getting tiresome. |
It could rain hundred dollar bills and you lot would still whine like spoilt children. It’s getting tiresome. It's a little different to office workers whose only risk each day might be a particularly nasty scalding burn from a carelessly poured cup of coffee. Unfortunately explaining things like having to make split second decisions in very fluid environments that can very quickly become extremely life threatening to someone who has only ever worried where their car is parked each day is like explaining the Manhattan Project to an Amazonian tribesman. |
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
(Post 10646500)
I was told straight from the horses mouth that the intro of CAO48.1 was the reason they were splitting the BOC’s and that without this they would be remaining. main delay was ensuring enough crew to do it. |
Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646528)
It could rain hundred dollar bills and you lot would still whine like spoilt children. It’s getting tiresome. |
Originally Posted by V-Jet
(Post 10646540)
No amount of money helps at all when you are so tired you are struggling not to throw up and have a complex arrival to plan and execute in poor weather.
It's a little different to office workers whose only risk each day might be a particularly nasty scalding burn from a carelessly poured cup of coffee. Unfortunately explaining things like having to make split second decisions in very fluid environments that can very quickly become extremely life threatening to someone who has only ever worried where their car is parked each day is like explaining the Manhattan Project to an Amazonian tribesman. |
Originally Posted by The name is Porter
(Post 10646534)
Well don't read it. Someone twisting your arm? Forcing you to read it? FFS.
If this thread is akin to some Turkish bath, where only those wanting to steam each other up are permitted to participate, then clearly I’m not in the democratic land I thought I was.... Carry on... the sky is falling is where I think you left it... |
I thought all the Management Trolls went on holidays on the 19th, not to be seen until mid-January- just go away , go back to reading qrewroom or some other crap like that, we know how much you and you bosses hate us.
24 million reasons to vote no. |
Originally Posted by Paddleboat
(Post 10646556)
Troll elsewhere thanks mate. JQ pilots are sick of being at the bottom of the list for pay, by a significant margin, when their productivity and responsibility puts them firmly at the top. If you expect them to smile and carry on whilst the actual spoiled children, you know the ones paying themselves record bonuses and then blatantly lying in the media about what we do, you're going to be disappointed.
|
FOI you seem as passionate as the rest of us about this EBA. You also deny being a company troll. If we are all wrong on both counts, why don’t you tell us all why you believe the status quo should remain. And by status quo I mean a gradual relative decline in pay and conditions via stagnation. And why don’t you tell us why you are so opposed to us pushing back finally, what’s the big threat you would like to avoid? your argument is empty and contrary at best. |
If back of the clock 2 man red eyes go then that would be a win for any crew! Some people enjoy them, others hate them and struggle, don’t sling ****e at each other, embrace each other’s opinions. No one version is built for all. However do look to the right and left at times and see each other micro napping outside of controlled rest. Yes throw in ****e wx etc and it is even harder and more demanding. It’s not all about $, lifestyle certainly comes into it. |
What are you, a Jedi Knight? I do this job too and don’t find quite as dramatic as you put it. Or, I have learn to manipulate the system like improving my bidding skills, getting a corridor creeping role or a carers line! Taking that a step further, are you able to apply for a Lesbian position, or are they invite only?? |
Originally Posted by V-Jet
(Post 10646540)
No amount of money helps at all when you are so tired you are struggling not to throw up and have a complex arrival to plan and execute in poor weather.
It's a little different to office workers whose only risk each day might be a particularly nasty scalding burn from a carelessly poured cup of coffee. Unfortunately explaining things like having to make split second decisions in very fluid environments that can very quickly become extremely life threatening to someone who has only ever worried where their car is parked each day is like explaining the Manhattan Project to an Amazonian tribesman. Luckily they don’t read garbage like your post above........ On a professional level, I think you should seek some help... if you’re struggling to make day to day decisions and view every flight as a moon shot, me thinks you may be holding on a bit tight.. |
Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
(Post 10646584)
FOI you seem as passionate as the rest of us about this EBA. You also deny being a company troll. If we are all wrong on both counts, why don’t you tell us all why you believe the status quo should remain. And by status quo I mean a gradual relative decline in pay and conditions via stagnation. And why don’t you tell us why you are so opposed to us pushing back finally, what’s the big threat you would like to avoid? your argument is empty and contrary at best. 1. I have seen the organisation grow and improve markedly since its inception (unlike many of you on here I suspect): - pilot remuneration level improvements, - the way the company is managed overall, - vast equipment / technology improvements, - growth opportunities (promotion / bases / network). 2. I live in the BEST country in the world. 3. I have multiple inter-company options for basing. 4. I look forward to flying a NEO and hopefully one day a 787. 5. I get a minimum 132 days off per year. 6. I get 6 weeks annual leave per year. 7. The training I get is considered one of the fairest, most contemporary and productive models in the world (EBT) - I don’t fear my biennial checks. 8. I have my problems fixed where possible by dedicated staff. 9. My company is profitable and therefore my future is secure. 10. I’ve had a period of personal adversity where I’ve been looked after by my company way above any reasonable expectations and I’m grateful. Am I: 1. Tired? Yes, occasionally - like ALL airline pilot jobs I’ve had, but I manage it as I should (like so many other professions). 2. Keen to see the trajectory of improvements continue? Yes, and have no reason to believe it will cease to. 3. Unhappy to the point I want to see my company damaged and the future for myself, my peers and my fellow company employees irreparably damaged? No, I’m not anywhere near that unhappy. 4. Delusional to the point I think everything should be perfect? No, I recognise nothing in life is ever perfect. 5. Embarrassed at the thought of who may read some of the commentary on sites like this from Pilots who claim to be professional peers of mine? Yes, I think I am portrayed by a noisy few who are inarticulate, immature, feel privileged and have never known what bad really looks like. * I work for a leisure airline whose peaks are at holiday times. I accept that Christmas’ at home will likely be less than others. * I have chosen to be an airline Pilot, not a corporate leader. I am concerned only with what I earn. There are corporate leaders in all countries who earn staggering remuneration. They live in a world of risk and skewed work/life balance that I chose not to. If they’re good at what they do, my job is secure and the owners of the business pay them accordingly. More power to them. We should strive to improve conditions whilst always recognising our particular niche in the world. We lose the edge, we’re not as needed. Nothing personal, it’s just business. A PBS, lower EFA threshold and sophisticated open-time system that either fits within the proposed framework or after some trade-offs of superseded contractual items is where I’d like to see us head. Gives flexibility and options depending on your stage of life. |
Originally Posted by V-Jet
(Post 10646589)
The Force is obviously stronger in me, for I clearly work harder!
Or, I have learn to manipulate the system like improving my bidding skills, getting a corridor creeping role or a carers line! Taking that a step further, are you able to apply for a Lesbian position, or are they invite only?? |
Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646576)
Oh please, spare us the draconian corporate bonuses Gordon Gecko bashing drivel. And I’m not your mate either by the way. So lets try again, do you believe it reasonable that most productive, hard working airline pilots in the country remain at the bottom of the pay table, by a significant margin, in a period of record profitability and executive remuneration? Do you believe it equitable that executive pay is benchmarked against peers, and that the 3% wage policy has no bearing on their pay given that we are prohibited from peer benchmarking and are subjected to a wage rule that literally isn't written anywhere? Do you seriously expect us to smile and accept this position, taking on ever increasing workloads and responsibility, an example being in the near future operating 8 hour international sectors with widebody passenger loads, all whilst being paid something rapidly approaching turboprop pay?
Originally Posted by FOI
Well, you do write it, I assume hoping people would read it.
|
Originally Posted by Paddleboat
(Post 10646598)
Such spite. Interesting, but hardly surprising given your obvious intent here. More telling was, in an identical vein to the other management troll who has since vanished when challenged, your complete and total avoidance of the point of my post.
So lets try again, do you believe it reasonable that most productive, hard working airline pilots in the country remain at the bottom of the pay table, by a significant margin, in a period of record profitability and executive remuneration? Do you believe it equitable that executive pay is benchmarked against peers, and that the 3% wage policy has no bearing on their pay given that we are prohibited from peer benchmarking and are subjected to a wage rule that literally isn't written anywhere? Do you seriously expect us to smile and accept this position, taking on ever increasing workloads and responsibility, an example being in the near future operating 8 hour international sectors with widebody passenger loads, all whilst being paid something rapidly approaching turboprop pay? Wasn't his point. The threads topic and content are obvious, yet you come in here and moan about the content anyway. I assume whenever you see a 'wet floor' sign, you dash in, fall over and then complain about how wet the floor was. Impressive stuff. |
FOI Why are you worth 15% less than a TT or VA Pilot? As someone raised earlier, sign today, and mid to late next decade you are worth TWENTY FIVE PERCENT less than a Tiger or Virgin driver. |
But he gets 6 weeks off a year wheels down!
|
Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646599)
just read my post above will you 🥱 I've asked you 3 simple, specific questions. Your post answers none of them. Just to humor you though.
Originally Posted by FOI
1. I have seen the organisation grow and improve markedly since its inception (unlike many of you on here I suspect):
Irrelevant to the current wage negotiation 2. I live in the BEST country in the world. So does every other pilot working for the 4 main airlines. Irrelevant. 3. I have multiple inter-company options for basing. So does every other pilot working for the 4 main airlines. Irrelevant 4. I look forward to flying a NEO and hopefully one day a 787. Good for you. Irrelevant. And the 787 will almost certainly be handed back once the XLR's arrive, if not sooner. 5. I get a minimum 132 days off per year. So less than everyone else? Fantastic point, well presented. Where do I sign the new EBA? 6. I get 6 weeks annual leave per year. So does every other pilot working for the 4 main airlines. Irrelevant. 7. The training I get is considered one of the fairest, most contemporary and productive models in the world (EBT) - I don’t fear my biennial checks. Cool. You're willing to take a 15% pay cut relative to another airline that does far less than you, for EBT? Sure 8. I have my problems fixed where possible by dedicated staff. So does every other pilot working for the 4 main airlines. Irrelevant. 9. My company is profitable and therefore my future is secure. Do you know what 400 - 30 is mate? Is it a positive or negative number. 10. I’ve had a period of personal adversity where I’ve been looked after by my company way above any reasonable expectations and I’m grateful. That's how it should be. The company being appreciative and compassionate with its employees should not require those employees to be grossly underpaid. |
Originally Posted by wheels_down
(Post 10646602)
FOI Why are you worth 15% less than a TT or VA Pilot? As someone raised earlier, sign today, and mid to late next decade you are worth TWENTY FIVE PERCENT less than a Tiger or Virgin driver. a. I’m not really “worth” less than a TT or VA Pilot as you put it. I have done very well year on year here. b. I personally believe (and I say this wishing no ill to ever come of my TT and VA colleagues and friends) my job is (or was, until recently - thanks) currently more secure, and having been around, that means a great deal. I sincerely hope TT and VA turn their fortunes around however. |
And what great threat are you trying to avoid by being happy with those conditions FOI? I’d like to see where you think this is going if we don’t sign it as is. Specifically what is the your prophecy?
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
(Post 10646612)
And what great threat are you trying to avoid by being happy with those conditions FOI? I’d like to see where you think this is going if we don’t sign it as is. Specifically what is the your prophecy?
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Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646624)
However the immortal words of General Yamamoto seem appropriate.
Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646624)
Carry on... the sky is falling is where I think you left it...
|
There's always the CP role at TT that's just become available...
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Originally Posted by Paddleboat
(Post 10646607)
I did.
I've asked you 3 simple, specific questions. Your post answers none of them. Just to humor you though. You and your Federation mates shot the gun prior to there being a deal on the table to even consider. The naive out there listened to you all and took your rhetorical bait. This goes bad, as indeed it may, it’s on you. |
And if it goes good because of their actions?
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Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646682)
You and your Federation mates shot the gun prior to there being a deal on the table to even consider. The naive out there listened to you all and took your rhetorical bait. This goes bad, as indeed it may, it’s on you. I wrote a post then deleted it, why bother. The only place this is going is arbitration, which I've got no issue with.
Originally Posted by TimmyTee
And if it goes good because of their actions?
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Merry Christmas and much solidarity to our Jetstar Brothers and Sisters. May 2020 bring about a quick a fruitful resolution
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Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646682)
You and your Federation mates shot the gun prior to there being a deal on the table to even consider. The naive out there listened to you all and took your rhetorical bait. This goes bad, as indeed it may, it’s on you. |
Originally Posted by FOI
(Post 10646682)
Ok Paddleboat. I know you profess to being the loudest voice in the room and subscribe to this try-hard coercion and bully-tactics theme, but know this; You and your Federation mates shot the gun prior to there being a deal on the table to even consider. The naive out there listened to you all and took your rhetorical bait. This goes bad, as indeed it may, it’s on you. [QUOTE=FOI;10646682] Have you not being paying attention FOI ? The deal is on the table 3% Thats the deal being offered and they will not negotiate anything else. They will not even meet to have any negotiation whatsoever. All thats being offered are the Mantra's 3% . and Not at any cost ! "1. I have seen the organisation grow and improve markedly since its inception (unlike many of you on here I suspect):" "4. I look forward to flying a NEO and hopefully one day a 787." Methinks you speak with forked tongue MATE ! If your'e so hard to get on the 787 and you had previous Airline experience to JQ and you were here from the the inception. How come your'e not already on it ? |
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