Any talk of PIA over the next EBA is pretty premature. The negotiating position of workers has changed for the better over the last 8 months or so. Some good improvements in T&Cs have been achieved in other employee groups without having to resort to much apparent PIA.

But beyond improvements to the contract PIA will not a achieve a new executive or board, more engineers or spare parts, more aircraft for mainline, more property being brought back or even prevent Swissport from running into things. Be realistic with what you can achieve.

It's likely that before the next mainline EBA is ready to be voted on we'll have a whole new executive management team.

In return for what?

And a new bogey man for us all to fear! :rolleyes:

It depends how you frame your industrial campaign. Are you a worker on well above average wages, with a (perceived) glamorous job asking for more wages? Or are you campaigning to fix a safety crisis, improve the experience of your customers, stopping uncaring managers destroying a famous Aussie brand? Teachers, nurses, ambos, firefightes all hide their wage campaigns in a safety/public benefit campaign.

We have lost deafult solidarity with workers taking industrial action in this country but you still get support if the public can see they get a benefit out of your campaign as well.

Hey Sceptical I would not be surprised if it was a new Bogie WOMAN you will have to fear!!!

Oh god I hope not. The current JQ one is not there for her experience and expertise she is useless. There only to satisfy the woke agenda.

Not sure. I‘ll ask him next time we chat. My take would be:

Given we’re now in the early stages of the Aus pilot shortage, and there’s a well established and significant global shortage, and E3s to USA majors may soon be on the cards, and currently 40%+ pay rises in the states - I don’t think they’ll be chasing 3%/year 🤣

Management are so close to walking out at the end of the year with they’re bonuses after running the airline into the ground. Cash bonuses, share schemes, jacked up share price for an airline that has zero assets and about 12 efficient aircraft in a fleet of many hundreds. Everything is about short-term ramping up of the share price so they can leave with their own pockets full.

I’m sure they won’t want to get involved in a huge stoush with pilots. They will want to get it done so can they can quietly disappear into the night with their bags full of cash. There won’t be another airline shutdown as an industrial tool, because the board know the public are sick of their sh*t. They won’t risk their bonuses when the public disdain for Qantas is so high, nor would the government step in like they did last time.

The new engineer agreement shows what can be achieved. They received pay increments “in line with the wage agreement” BS so that management got their bonuses and could save face, but most of the engineers got huge pay increases through other avenues. We’re talking 20, 30, 40%.

That’s what it’s about at this point - management hell bent on getting personal bonuses. They’ll happily put through an agreement at the eleventh hour where pilots get a 30% increase in package … provided they can tell the board the new agreement is “in line with the wage freeze policy”.

It’s only once they’ve disappeared into the night with their own pockets full of money, to be sure to be sure, that the board and shareholders will realise they’ve been had.

The engineers got that because they have balls, Qantas pilots have none.

But ....but.. network is going to take all out flying.. they'll fly the 350 to London! :E

yeah cool. Hey were you one of the ones that would have been happy to see the most senior pilots displacing everyone everywhere during Covid? That doesn’t take balls or spine.

Similarly at Jetstar the agreement got up with hidden pay rises well above the supposed wages policy.

Not at all but as usual you jump to conclusions. Covid was what it was a bad situation all round for everyone.

sure was. No conclusions, that’s why I asked. Your comment aimed at your fellow QF pilots gave me a sniff of the same attitude those blokes had. A bit rich to say ‘no balls’ when we haven’t had any negotiations since Covid. SH will be a good litmus test. You know as well as I do that pilots attitudes to work aren’t the same as they were pre Covid.

Fantasy talk of 20-30% is just a waste of time, by the time we are negotiating the economy will be in the crapper enough that the Group will play the ‘tough times ahead’ spiel.

And then in typical Qantas fashion it will be time for another round of VR

VR costs money, what’ll probably happen is the appearance of a “fantastic opportunity” for mainline pilots to take LWOP and go to other group subsidiaries, solving those entity’s crewing problems and mainline over-staffing in one hit…..

Having said that it seems that the recent spikes in cost of living haven’t decreased passenger numbers at all, from what I’m told forward bookings look strong and plenty of opportunity for more growth, especially internationally. The level of flying that exists now is still below what it was at 2019 levels, so even an economic recession in 2023 which generally would see flying go backwards, would not affect the airline as the airline still has to get to a 2019 level yet.

Qantas pilots had the opportunity to vote down the last two EA in both cases they resoundingly voted them up. They were shocking deals proving what I was told as a young SO by an old Captain “ son never get in the way of a Qantas pilot and $10”.

they were speaking from experience. “Never get in the way of a senior qf pilot who has the chance to screw over a junior colleague for their own benefit” was the quote I was given In addition to the one you mentioned.

Maybe you could give me some examples

well there was the opportunity to change bidding for one.

and the proposed screwing of everyone by right sizing the establishment over COVID.

a suggestion that SH pilots should be sharing a portion of their income with LH over COVID.

wanting to displace onto the 330 and then have first right of return to the 380

ask around, you’ll find more.

So where have the senior pilots succeeded? The change to bidding went to a vote or did you forget and not one rank on one aircraft was successful. Next please?