Qantas Recruitment
 

So all Jetstar pilots (and I assume all other group pilots) have just received a link for Expressions of Interest for Mainline jobs. I guess that Qantas must have worked their way through current holders of a Letter of Intent. Seems the recruitment wheels are moving slowly but surely.

It's good to see this happening but I think its more for the realisation that less people will be applying for mainline rather than the powers that be being generous.

Getting into Qantas used to be like winning the lottery, everyone's dream job, but things have changed a lot over the past 10 years, to an extent it's really just another airline here, as the "glory days" are gone. There is excitement over expansion and (finally!!) promotions but all it takes is another slowdown and the wheels come to a grinding halt ...and your stuck again. Who would really leave a high paying f/o gig at another airline to take a back seat on a 787 on reduced pay with the possibility of a long wait for promotion.

The people you work with are fantastic, the conditions are mostly better than other airlines in Australia, but the grass isn't probably that much greener than where people are already.

It will be interesting over the next few years to see how many people start here from group airlines, especially Jetstar. Let the good times continue, it's just hard to forget recent history.

That was my first thought on reading, how many would actually want to go? I'm sure left and right seat guys at QLink would, but J*? I would have thought it would be only the junior FO's and even at that I'm sure many would be settled?

There have been some F/O's go from JQ to mainline in the past as well, plus Network this time around may generate some interest. It's probably just a corporate thing to advertise positions available within the group first before advertising them to the general public.
If you're referring to mainline not being able to attract interest from the wider pilot group, let me ask how many would leave a regional turboprop, or a charter company in a remote community to come to mainline? The mainstay of mainline recruitment in the past really hasn't been current jet F/O's. It's still higher paying than other cruise relief jobs and I would expect a flood of applications from regionals and GA (and probably a lot from overseas as well) when general external recruitment starts.

Its the lifestyle that will attract the F/O's out of Jetstar. They might be getting good money at the moment but they can't see a long term career in an airline where all you do is go to work, come home have dinner then go to bed to go to work again. Its why the LWOP pilots are voting with their feet and going back to be S/Os but only for a short time. Career wise your choices with mainline will be a lot more varied than with Jetstar and over the lifespan of your career the money will also be better. The selection process is not going to be a walk in the park though as one of the QF Cadets found out.

I reckon it'll be on for young and old!

Qlink/Cobham/Network/Tiger/Deathstar/GA and possibly anyone well down the list at VAA.

How do you figure that? They haven't yet opened general (outside) recruitment.

And as mentioned, historically QF have recruited from regionals, GA, military and cadets, not other airlines. (Although there are some) it's a different world now but if you're sitting as a Jetstar FO wondering where things are going...

I find it interesting that everyone says they've contacted all LOI holders. I'm looking at mine now from 08 and haven't heard a peep from QF.

Must have lost my contact details down the back of the sofa :(

I think you ever estimate the strategic thinking. The reality is that it's been QF group policy for a while now that all positions are advertised internally.

I think too this is to gauge the interest from the subsidiary airlines and its potential impact on them also. I suspect there will be some emails flying around to the regionals about the potential impact to their respective airlines.

I've not seen the EOI but are there restrictions on how long you've been with the respective subsidiary before you can apply? I reckon that one may creep in to ensure that the subsidiaries get a return on investment.

Rhodes, you're not alone. Make contact with them.

Keg

I think you'll find the policy has the word "should" in it. So it pretty much means nothing.

"From within first - internal employees SHOULD always be considered first for any opportunities, we have to support the career aspirations of our people"

Well word on the street is that new recruits will have to do a few years at other qantas outfits such as QantasLink and efa etc before moving to mainline.

Should've been done like that before but anyway it is going to be busy. And anyone thinking a lot of guys in Virgin, Cathay, emirates and other jet jobs won't be keen is fooling themselves

Let the games begin!

They'd be ex cadets or LOI holders. No externals have been put through the application process. In fact the system isn't yet open to outside applications.

Do we have any idea what education & flying hours they will be looking for?

Word on the street is a Charlie Q gig ain't what it used to be.... Jungle drums beating indicate a lack of interest..... People more than happy with work life balance and professional development opportunities here at the Star, Cobham, network, airlines of PNG, Airnorth, Bill Peach air tours etc etc...

QF will definitely struggle to get enough applicants. They'll need to get real and drop education requirements to year 10 equivalent and look at setting up flying school career tents (with free sausage sizzles)

I suspect they'll be similar or slightly higher than the regionals. I'd be very surprised if they dropped the education requirements from what they were previously.

I'm not sure what jungle drums Jetsarpilot is listening too but I guess time will tell.

Or what jungle juice he has been drinking Keg. Maybe Jetstarpilot had an LOI but now has a TBNT letter.

Cute as always and subtle as ever :)

Hey Bill Peach air tours I can understand, but airlines of PNG??

I recon it will be on for young and old.

This is the thing...QF SO would no doubt be a good steady job. It really comes down to what you want, and will you have a seat when all the music stops. If Oz goes pearshape, and the market is flooded. Who will be more employable? An ex 787 SO or A320/B737 FO? Do your research. What do the fly in/outs, Asian/European carriers/agencies want? Unfortunately it's a different world out there now days, especially the aviation industry. Long term strategic planning is a must, as cool most probably won't stand the test of time.
L.B ;)

When the big Q recruits the applicants will come from Air North, Careflight, RFDS, Hinterland, Skippers, Toll, Hardy's, RAAF, GAM, Pearl, Network, Cobham, Coastwatch, our NZ cousins and every flying instructor in GA with a pulse.

Can't really see Qantas recruiting staff twiddling their thumbs hoping or waiting for applications to dribble in!

Besides the recent ex cadets that have joined in the last couple of months and in the next couple of months, there has not been recruitment in mainline since early 2009...
Most if not all pilots in mainline are now over the age of 30.
If in the future you are successful in the selection process and join mainline, AND you are around the age of 25 or even less, think long term regarding your career.
Its all about seniority and potential opportunities. If you join in your mid twenties, chances are you could possibly be very senior in your mid forties with a seniority in the vicinity of top 300. That will mean captain on a fleet of your choice. Something for jetstar, efa, jetconnect, network, airlines of png, GA or any other company a 20 something year old is currently working for.
Yes the music may stop, One cannot predict what happens in aviation. We all know it works in cycles but from a long term point of view is there a better gig in Australian aviation?

I agree with you ohfa, if you are in your mid twenties and get in at the start of the recruitment wave it's a great career move, but what I am trying to convey is that is a limited pool of pilots these days in this demographic.. With the amount of other Airline jobs around Qantas isn't as attractive as it used to be, and the lower wage for new S/O's on the 787 is part of this.

At the start of the last big recruitment we had ansett fall over, and with it Kendall's and a variety of other small airlines. Every second new person you spoke to here seemed to be from one of them, and the only other option was Virgin Blue which was just starting. Fast forward to today a lot of pilots in their late 20's and thirties are already flying jet equipment on high wages as relative senior F/O's or even Captains. Many are happy with their lot, and don't see any gain in moving to Qantas and taking a demotion and reduced pay for an unspecified period of time.

Look at the posts here with Qlink using 457 visas, there just isn't the pool of pilots there used to be. I think they will get a huge amount of applicants of course, but not the numbers they got 10-15 years ago.

As I have stated before I would recommend to anyone to apply to work here, and it's fantastic to finally see some new faces about to start....it's like a grey hair convention here at the moment !!!

Look at the age demographic. Lots of young Captains in Virgin and Jetstar. Qantas has a much older average, even many First Officers will leave in the next ten years or so. About half the FOs I fly with are in their 50s.
Qantas Management always stuff up numbers in a cyclical way. Plenty are getting close to running out of hours, all leave gone etc.
This is likely to be a large recruitment, more 787s will be ordered eventually but over 100 new Pilots are needed for the current fleet without allowing for second officers on the 787.
I would think anyone in their 20s or 30s would do well to apply, I for one will be retiring early in a few years. ;)

Interesting point of clarification about the expressions of interest sent by a Manager further down the food chain than the CP. The EOI is only open for two weeks and it is not a guarantee of an interview.

Hawk Circle and others who are interested. These are excerpts of PMs that I have sent to people recently to answer questions about pay and progression.

First year pay is a little hard to calculate accurately as it depends a little on aircraft type, what our divisor (scheduled flying hours) is for each 8 week period and so on. There are slightly different increases year on year for each aircraft too.

As an absolute base minimum, as at 1 Jul 17 a 787 S/O will earn $105K. The 787 rates go up 2% a year for 4 years. The annual 3% pay rises we tend to get will be in addition to this 2% so effectively 5% a year for the first 4 years.

An A330 S/O in the first year will earn $95K. Based on current hours though the 330 S/O will earn an extra $10K- if not more. The S/O rate jumps up by 7% the first half of the 2nd year, and then another 16.5% in the second half of the second year then 3% a year after that. The annual 3% pay rises that we tend to get are on top of this so you're essentially getting a 6% pay rise each year after year 2.

Allowances will add a little bit on top of that- perhaps $15-20K depending on your trips and work rate.

The big unknown over the next few years is progression off the 787 or A330 as S/Os onto the 744 or A380. The overtime on both those fleets can add an additional 30-40%. Of course if the flying mix changes on those fleets- particularly the A380 then that could change things considerably.

If you want to get out of the back seat ASAP then the 737 is likely to be the only short term promotion available. The 737 has bases in all the state capitals around Australia except TAS and NT but don't expect to earn much more than you will be earning as a 5-6 year S/O on the 787 or A330.

Future progression? There are 400 pilots currently on long haul fleets (out of 1300 total) who hit 65 within the next decade- although only 100 or so in the next 5 years with 300 in the five years after that.

I have no visibility of demographics of the 600ish pilots on SH fleets. Anyone else? Is there a SH bid book equivalent?

Anyway, hope that assists.

Thank you Keg. Just a clarification regarding 737 pay. You CAN earn significantly more on the 737 than an A330 (and presumably 787) S/O. Won't be much more than an A380 S/O, but that may change in the future once the 787 takes (again only an assumption) much of the lucrative flying.
The incentive payment is icing on the cake.

Just for clarification.
Its much better financially on the 737 than many realise.

Good luck to all, and I too don't think Qantas will have any trouble attracting suitable applicants.

Thanks Chad Gates. Been a long time since I've talked pay with a 737 F/O.

Rumours around about more international flying for the A330. Increase in frequencies as well as a possible new destination. This will require 100 new recruits to that fleet.

Recruits needed for the current flying plan

I think it's been said the first 100 new recruits will be going to the 330 before any are recruited onto the 787

Part of the question is what is happening to the 80 or so S/Os already on the A330. I don't reckon we need 180 of them on the 330 so some of them are obviously leaving the fleet in significant numbers between now and July. Curioser and curioser.

Keg,

I've heard around 30 extra training slots to be announced this week, with the following residuals making a total of about 70. Obviously this will clean out some of the A330 S/O ranks, which in turn makes sense that they are boosting new pilot recruitment numbers.

If I was joining as an S/O now though, I'd forget about a sideways move to the 744 or 380 completely. It seems the guys there will need a crowbar to be prised away from the back seat of those machines!

As for 737 pay, I concur with Chad. With divisiors creeping up and bonus/incentive payments, many 737 F/Os are making $200k+.

Cheers

Currently about 63 or so S/Os on the A330. We realistically need about 80 S/Os for the current flying, maybe a tad more with Melb to Narita starting back up. With only about 6 or 7 A330 S/Os due to leave in the training year (that'll change of course with the new vacancies to be advertised), the fact that they are/will be recruiting quite a large number straight onto the A330 suggests that they are happy to initially have an excess of S/O's on the A330 for a short while and as guys/gals leave in the next couple of years the numbers will sort themselves out, or they are planning on even more international flying for the 330. Brisbane-Seoul is a rumour I keep hearing as is a service back to Beijing.

I reckon it'll be a LOT more than 30 Transition Layer. Rumours suggest a few on the 744 and 20+ A330 commands and 20+ A330 F/O slots as well as potentially some 737 slots. With residuals to flow on from there it wouldn't surprise me if this 'half year' allocation is equally as big (or bigger) than the allocation published in June.

Either way, nice to be talking promotion and movement again rather than the dark days of 2009- 2015.

Completely forgot about the 737 bonus too! Handy little earner the last couple of years.

Heard a crazy rumour of a South Pacific island for the A330 too. I reckon Beijing will happen but possibly not until the 787 can release some capacity from elsewhere.

If only the 200s had a crew rest

And we had more crew

10-12 per month for "foreseeable future". Impeccable source.

Heard exactly the same.

Could be the same impeccable source.

Bring it on. :D

Any timings for as to when and if applications will open to new externals? :O

I heard a couple may get a re-reconfig! :)
The look on one of our "leaders" face last year at the "no step" course when I pointed out that the 200 has bigger fuel tanks was priceless! I don't think anyone had told him. ;)

They do seem to be doing something about crew finally.

Just not 7A