330/350 contract is another example.

You mean the C scale for new SOs

Prime example

ah yes…the vote set up to fail! Voting by rank and fleet when people change rank and fleet was a farce.

so an opportunity to screw over only counts if it’s a success does it?

let’s see what happens with SH.

Absolutely hit the mark there. After waiting over a year QantasLink pilots have now got rough start dates out to 2025. If you join QantasLink now you won't likely see QF until 2026 if you're lucky. Who will join QantasLink with progression like this and pay below the award by the looks of it.

And the successful vote was put up to pass by wrapping in up in a vote with large back pay. What you people don’t realise is you have given up your ability to control your lives and your careers . Do you see the North Americans doing something as stupid, of course not they want stability and control which you no longer have. Put it back up again and il bet you it wouldn’t pass.

Back to the topic, what’s the movement looking like for the second half of 2023? Any word if recruitment will need to reopen?

It hasn’t stopped I believe. Full up to end of June at the moment and I’m sure it will keep going.

I think they mean in terms of reopening recruitment for new applicants.

At this stage they’re still interviewing people who applied the last time applications were open. There are enough on the hold file currently to fill courses well into next year. So unlikely there will be a reopening for new applications until at least the end of this year.

Let's not forget when the last LH EBA came up for negotiation, er, I mean the ultimatum came up, the QF pilots were faced with the following:

Sign it or lose the A350 sunrise flying.
Mass exodus at the time of CX pilots with plenty of experience on airbus. This played on a lot of people's minds when the former LH CEO La Spina made the threats that they'll simply create another entity to do the sunrise flying.
I have no idea of guessing how the vote would have went, but before covid became a thing on the news, most talk I was hearing was to vote it down and take the chance of them creating an international QantasLink.
Early 2020 Covid hits the news. Very quickly everyone is worried as countries begin to close borders and everyone over the age of 30 has flash backs to the GFC, 9/11 etc. Covid put the nail in the coffin. Nobody was risking a no-vote when the industry was very quickly turning in favour of management.

Look how easily the company is giving away traditional QF routes to QLink subsidiaries domestically. Legally there's nothing the pilot group or the unions can do at the moment with them taking traditional 737 routes and handing them to QLink at half the wage. There is zero legal roadblocks to them creating a new entity for Project Sunrise as East Coast to LHR/NYC has never been done by mainline so they could easily argue it never was our flying to keep.

Wasn't there also the threat that the pilots on the Project Sunrise flights were going to come from China, if the proposed agreement wasn't agreed upon? I do sometimes wonder if such threat would have been followed through, and if so, if that would have backfired on management.

Anything is possible nowdays. Company's choice at their sole discretion. Vast lack of solid unity and all important scope clauses have voided the union movement of any significant clout. Next development will be new hires employed on individual contracts with renumeration based on experience. This will in time further continue to divide and conquer the pilot group. Many factors have led to this unfortunate outcome,however the self importance and blatant greed of many senior aircrew has definitely worked in favour of the company.

The horse has bolted, the industrial advantage was lost years ago with the formation of a ‘Group’ where different entities are played off against each other. The company do have the ability to move flying to other entities and the pilots know that any one group would happily throw another group to the wolves if it means bigger or more exciting aircraft for them. It sucks but it is just the way it is.

To reiterate the A350 will be operated under the LH EA, and the 321X under the SH EA in mainline, and work has already started on this management wise.

I wouldn't say it is just the way it is. I'm sure the US pilots never expected a 40% pay rise this year. Apathy is management's best friend.

Yes. I’m just saying that look how blurred the lines are in domestic with the subsids taking 737 routes and zero chance of pilots arguing that it’s an illegal transfer of business.

Sunrise hasn’t been done yet. There’s nothing stopping them from giving it to another entity, new or existing.

Are we saying, There is a genuine chance that mainline could be shut down and all flying moved to other groups? Well SH at least?

29 A220s (so far) along the east coast with Alliance taking NJSs’ current work. Certainly looks that way.

With around 800 training slots forecast on 73 in next five years and rumour of training being done overseas to keep up with demand I don’t think SH is going anywhere soon.

This. There is a reason the airline is recruiting like crazy, and it's not because they like paying extra money to pilots. It is that simple, people need to stop jumping at shadows.