Still flying after Ansett & related stuff - Vol 2.
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Clive.
Now I feel maligned:
If you go back and read one of my posts (I think in the prevoius 100+ thread) I referred to you and said "AS FAR AS I WAS CONCERNED ANYBODY WHO JOINED AFTER MARCH 90 (or what ever the date was around then) WAS OK BY ME except that if they had started negotiations prior to said date.
So pray tell how does that put me in with the hard liners?
Now I feel maligned:
If you go back and read one of my posts (I think in the prevoius 100+ thread) I referred to you and said "AS FAR AS I WAS CONCERNED ANYBODY WHO JOINED AFTER MARCH 90 (or what ever the date was around then) WAS OK BY ME except that if they had started negotiations prior to said date.
So pray tell how does that put me in with the hard liners?
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Still Flying after Ansett & related stuff volume-???
I don't bother looking in on this crap, much nowadays, but every now and then I do, and it really annoys me.
Firstly, I am one of the so called "dirty dozen", and I am proud to be one of them!
As a senior F/O, I had plenty of chances to "do the wrong thing". I chose to hang in "there", even in late December 1989, when I realised that some of our leaders had changed sides , I still stuck by my "guns". I knew we had lost but there was no way I would change sides. I was the guy that gave the "Fat Man" his knickname back in 1985. (just ask Jim)
During the "dispute" we were supposedly fighting for our jobs back. The AFAP asked me to resign, I "Resigned", they asked me, not to "scab", I did not SCAB. During the dispute when some of the senior AFAP figures tossed in the towel, we were told that "it was OK as they were working from the inside to fix the problem"
When the AFAP told us it was "OK" now to apply, I received the same response as everyone else, basically, "get stuffed!"
About a year later (after going through the same recruitment "B###Sh##" as an intake F/O), I was offered a postion in Melbourne
as an "intake F/O". I was stripped of any recognition of previous service.
I think you can, "get the idea".
I can't remember the exact date, but I think it was about six months or so are being "re-employed", that I decided to resign from the AFAP
This was a decision that I made myself with no pressure from anyone else.
I don't give a Sh**t, if some people here don't like it . I have a clear conscience do they? (you would be surprised at some of the stories I heard from the "Scabs" about who applied and when!)
Firstly, I am one of the so called "dirty dozen", and I am proud to be one of them!
As a senior F/O, I had plenty of chances to "do the wrong thing". I chose to hang in "there", even in late December 1989, when I realised that some of our leaders had changed sides , I still stuck by my "guns". I knew we had lost but there was no way I would change sides. I was the guy that gave the "Fat Man" his knickname back in 1985. (just ask Jim)
During the "dispute" we were supposedly fighting for our jobs back. The AFAP asked me to resign, I "Resigned", they asked me, not to "scab", I did not SCAB. During the dispute when some of the senior AFAP figures tossed in the towel, we were told that "it was OK as they were working from the inside to fix the problem"
When the AFAP told us it was "OK" now to apply, I received the same response as everyone else, basically, "get stuffed!"
About a year later (after going through the same recruitment "B###Sh##" as an intake F/O), I was offered a postion in Melbourne
as an "intake F/O". I was stripped of any recognition of previous service.
I think you can, "get the idea".
I can't remember the exact date, but I think it was about six months or so are being "re-employed", that I decided to resign from the AFAP
This was a decision that I made myself with no pressure from anyone else.
I don't give a Sh**t, if some people here don't like it . I have a clear conscience do they? (you would be surprised at some of the stories I heard from the "Scabs" about who applied and when!)
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I know how you feel Zoolander.
Much to my better judgement I penned a reply to some who would consider me not a man. I intend to respect the sad day tomorrow but leave on a 4 day trip in the early AM so thought it best to beat curfew save being referred to as a lesser man again.... not that I'm overly concerned however.
Subsonic,
My apologies if you feel that I was referring to you when I talk of “name-calling” and “abuse”. This was a general reference to the 4 years of vitriol that I have witnessed here from time to time. Not necessarily from yourself, although I do sense anger that could lead you down that track… anger that I have previously indicated I fully understand. The use of your pseudonym was simply to suggest that you would be unaccepting of my children should they ignore my advice and enter the aviation industry. I feel justified in this suggestion because one of your previous posts indicated that my position “won’t wash with (you), despite the attempted white wash” and thus I assumed that in your eyes I am a scab and my family would be treated as such. I see in your later post that you clarify your stance and in fact do not accuse me of being a scab. Therefore I again apologize. Although I remain a little unsure of you intentions.
Leftfrontside,
As above - the reference to “name-calling” and “abuse hurling” was not aimed at you guys specifically, although I do feel that if you do not wish to be considered as a “hardliner” then your post on the second page of this thread could do with a little tweak. The reference related purely to chances my offspring may have in the future. Here I was probably out of line as I have gone back to the old thread and noted your temperance in relation to my position (not that this is what I was seeking from anyone as I shared my thoughts in public). Not easy to get things right when the thread is split in two. My apologies.
Subsonic (again),
The reason I did not answer your union related question was because I could see no relevance to my post (a fact that Zoolander would seem to agree), a post that called for considered reasoning from both camps. I accept you obviously see relevance so I will answer you.
Firstly I believe that freedom of association in Australia is protected in law. This is (partly at least) so that those of us unskilled in industrial relations can pay those who are to assist in these matters. This was why I joined the AFAP when I began an aviation career. The AFAP were a party to the pilot’s award until the disturbing events of 1989/90. Like most, I understand, I was not asked to resign membership from the organization following these events and I did not tender one. Therefore to this day I don’t really know what my membership status is. I assume that given no membership dues were requested, or paid, then one’s membership would be null and void. Upon re-employment in the industry I sought industrial representation via the party to the new award/contract, this being the APA. I cannot concur with your view that if I remained a financial member of the AFAP (given that they were not a party to the award/contract) this would have somehow kept me shielded from “scab city” as you call it. A subjective view, so I am willing to be corrected.
Finally, in relation to your request that I “be a man” and stay in this particular boxing ring, I say that if I were inclined to simply “sign off because I didn’t like any response” then I would have given up my 4 years of input (albeit meager in nature) long ago, as many others have over the years I might add. My reasoning behind signing off from this thread was because my belief that a voice of reason could contribute constructively by inciting a non-bellicose debate was dashed when indeed the opposite began to occur. Additionally, my intention was not to try and make “everyone like (me) for the circumstance (that) surrounded (me)”. I thought it best to declare my position prior to pontificating on matters pertinent to the time. In fact I was pretty sure my declaration would result in more angst than anything else, reasonably accurate in your case I guess.
I’m not running and hiding and I always intend to be here – often passive and when I feel the time is right – proactive, the way most use this forum I would have thought. But when I find myself yet again and the end of that “dead end street” I spoke of, I feel my time is better spent not feeding negativity but furthering my studies, keeping in touch with home, and… oh yeah…. working in this often rewarding, but more often frustrating, industry.
Much to my better judgement I penned a reply to some who would consider me not a man. I intend to respect the sad day tomorrow but leave on a 4 day trip in the early AM so thought it best to beat curfew save being referred to as a lesser man again.... not that I'm overly concerned however.
Subsonic,
My apologies if you feel that I was referring to you when I talk of “name-calling” and “abuse”. This was a general reference to the 4 years of vitriol that I have witnessed here from time to time. Not necessarily from yourself, although I do sense anger that could lead you down that track… anger that I have previously indicated I fully understand. The use of your pseudonym was simply to suggest that you would be unaccepting of my children should they ignore my advice and enter the aviation industry. I feel justified in this suggestion because one of your previous posts indicated that my position “won’t wash with (you), despite the attempted white wash” and thus I assumed that in your eyes I am a scab and my family would be treated as such. I see in your later post that you clarify your stance and in fact do not accuse me of being a scab. Therefore I again apologize. Although I remain a little unsure of you intentions.
Leftfrontside,
As above - the reference to “name-calling” and “abuse hurling” was not aimed at you guys specifically, although I do feel that if you do not wish to be considered as a “hardliner” then your post on the second page of this thread could do with a little tweak. The reference related purely to chances my offspring may have in the future. Here I was probably out of line as I have gone back to the old thread and noted your temperance in relation to my position (not that this is what I was seeking from anyone as I shared my thoughts in public). Not easy to get things right when the thread is split in two. My apologies.
Subsonic (again),
The reason I did not answer your union related question was because I could see no relevance to my post (a fact that Zoolander would seem to agree), a post that called for considered reasoning from both camps. I accept you obviously see relevance so I will answer you.
Firstly I believe that freedom of association in Australia is protected in law. This is (partly at least) so that those of us unskilled in industrial relations can pay those who are to assist in these matters. This was why I joined the AFAP when I began an aviation career. The AFAP were a party to the pilot’s award until the disturbing events of 1989/90. Like most, I understand, I was not asked to resign membership from the organization following these events and I did not tender one. Therefore to this day I don’t really know what my membership status is. I assume that given no membership dues were requested, or paid, then one’s membership would be null and void. Upon re-employment in the industry I sought industrial representation via the party to the new award/contract, this being the APA. I cannot concur with your view that if I remained a financial member of the AFAP (given that they were not a party to the award/contract) this would have somehow kept me shielded from “scab city” as you call it. A subjective view, so I am willing to be corrected.
Finally, in relation to your request that I “be a man” and stay in this particular boxing ring, I say that if I were inclined to simply “sign off because I didn’t like any response” then I would have given up my 4 years of input (albeit meager in nature) long ago, as many others have over the years I might add. My reasoning behind signing off from this thread was because my belief that a voice of reason could contribute constructively by inciting a non-bellicose debate was dashed when indeed the opposite began to occur. Additionally, my intention was not to try and make “everyone like (me) for the circumstance (that) surrounded (me)”. I thought it best to declare my position prior to pontificating on matters pertinent to the time. In fact I was pretty sure my declaration would result in more angst than anything else, reasonably accurate in your case I guess.
I’m not running and hiding and I always intend to be here – often passive and when I feel the time is right – proactive, the way most use this forum I would have thought. But when I find myself yet again and the end of that “dead end street” I spoke of, I feel my time is better spent not feeding negativity but furthering my studies, keeping in touch with home, and… oh yeah…. working in this often rewarding, but more often frustrating, industry.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
Zoolander, I am one of those who was accused of having applied and being rejected. Yes I did apply, however the application was in for less than 3 days before I withdrew it, in the company of the then Brisbane Branch chairman. The reply from the BNE RFM was, " We haven't received your application." Possibly because it was delivered to the Valley office, and not the airport.
A friend at the time, who was also on the BNE branch subsequently scabbed and later became a checkie on the A320, I understand, commented later, "If I'd known, I would have told you not to withdraw your application."
Yet the truth has been distorted to perhaps act as a salve for some of the scabs....."Whatisname and whoisface applied, but they rejected them."
As a collective group, the NON-credibility of the scabs' word is one that has been proven beyond doubt - phnompenhkid has refreshed the reputation with several of his posts on the D & G forum of late.
When you consider some of the types the companies were FORCED into accepting - Storm Boy, Captain Lightfingers, The Blind Man to name a few AN people - because of the dire shortage of applicants, and then accept that others of FAR better quality had applied but were rejected, goes against rational thinking - but makes a good story, and makes the scabs "feel better".
Think about it, and ask yourself how credible the tales are.
Anyway we look forward to hearing more about life as it was "on the inside" from you guys - The Dirty Dozen, or The 12 Disciples, as you became known.
A friend at the time, who was also on the BNE branch subsequently scabbed and later became a checkie on the A320, I understand, commented later, "If I'd known, I would have told you not to withdraw your application."
Yet the truth has been distorted to perhaps act as a salve for some of the scabs....."Whatisname and whoisface applied, but they rejected them."
As a collective group, the NON-credibility of the scabs' word is one that has been proven beyond doubt - phnompenhkid has refreshed the reputation with several of his posts on the D & G forum of late.
When you consider some of the types the companies were FORCED into accepting - Storm Boy, Captain Lightfingers, The Blind Man to name a few AN people - because of the dire shortage of applicants, and then accept that others of FAR better quality had applied but were rejected, goes against rational thinking - but makes a good story, and makes the scabs "feel better".
Think about it, and ask yourself how credible the tales are.
Anyway we look forward to hearing more about life as it was "on the inside" from you guys - The Dirty Dozen, or The 12 Disciples, as you became known.
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re: the above -
Sounds like someone's had 14 years to perfect his story.
Sounds a lot like someone's really full of ****e.
Sounds like someone's living in a dream world. You know, when an accomplished liar (read B.S. artist) starts to believe his own bullsh!t? It's a sad day...
Reminds me of that scene in "top Gun" when Ice chomps his teeth at Mav after that line about "who's the best pilot".
Sounds like someone's had 14 years to perfect his story.
Sounds a lot like someone's really full of ****e.
Sounds like someone's living in a dream world. You know, when an accomplished liar (read B.S. artist) starts to believe his own bullsh!t? It's a sad day...
...of FAR better quality...
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Good to see I rate a mention again KM. You`re so kind keeping my name up there in lights and it is appreciated.
Credibility? Non-credibility? Who cares.
My conscience is clear just as you say yours is, in spite of signing before the AFAP said it was OK to do so, and you fit the same mould where you have put me, and that is a scab. It doesn`t hurt me, not will it - ever, but it seems that you have difficulty accepting the tag.
Keep at it - I love the attention, and am flattered that you give me so much of it.
Credibility? Non-credibility? Who cares.
My conscience is clear just as you say yours is, in spite of signing before the AFAP said it was OK to do so, and you fit the same mould where you have put me, and that is a scab. It doesn`t hurt me, not will it - ever, but it seems that you have difficulty accepting the tag.
Keep at it - I love the attention, and am flattered that you give me so much of it.
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SCAB maynot worry you PPK but then that is typical of all you lot couldn't give a "rats a...." about anyone but yourselves.
Whatever you say remember YOUR family will have to endure for generations that YOU WERE A SCAB just like the descendents of the Scab Miners in Australia from the '30's coal strike families have had to.
Can you live with that?
Whatever you say remember YOUR family will have to endure for generations that YOU WERE A SCAB just like the descendents of the Scab Miners in Australia from the '30's coal strike families have had to.
Can you live with that?
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I think a lot of people live in the past world.
About the only union that you would be scabbed for life these days is the building industry.
Times have changed ,unions are on the way out,and in most companies you can still be a member of a union but it has no pulling power.
Ive been in mining for years when the union ruled the way,but now most mining companies are on workplace agreement------why--because they offered more money,a yearly salary etc.Sure they can be pricks but the ones that stayed in the union got no pay rises for years as they were on an old award.
All new starters must sign the workplace agreement and stay on it for 3 years---then they can join a union ,but the company will meet or better any wages they may get.Industrial action is a waste of time as their numbers wouldnt affect the operations.
And even a lot of the good old coal mines are going that way.
Was an easy decision for me as now i get paid for a years work and dont have to worry about a month or more without getting payed.
Im surprised the Ansett thing has lasted so long-------as for future sons being included in the scab name------get a life.
Theres a small minority that carry a grudge,die hard union men and i bet have a loverly english accent
About the only union that you would be scabbed for life these days is the building industry.
Times have changed ,unions are on the way out,and in most companies you can still be a member of a union but it has no pulling power.
Ive been in mining for years when the union ruled the way,but now most mining companies are on workplace agreement------why--because they offered more money,a yearly salary etc.Sure they can be pricks but the ones that stayed in the union got no pay rises for years as they were on an old award.
All new starters must sign the workplace agreement and stay on it for 3 years---then they can join a union ,but the company will meet or better any wages they may get.Industrial action is a waste of time as their numbers wouldnt affect the operations.
And even a lot of the good old coal mines are going that way.
Was an easy decision for me as now i get paid for a years work and dont have to worry about a month or more without getting payed.
Im surprised the Ansett thing has lasted so long-------as for future sons being included in the scab name------get a life.
Theres a small minority that carry a grudge,die hard union men and i bet have a loverly english accent
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Aussierotor, with respect it's quite obvious that you have know understanding of the Aviation fraternity.
I suggest instead of posting you continue to read and learn, by the way I detested the Union (AFAP) objected to the exhorbitant fee rip off annually AND was vocal in my objection to events of '89.
The bottom line IT WAS A MATTER OF PRINCIPAL and an Aussie fair go, something that doyen of Labour and Unions that f@#$%K**g S$%#m A.......h.......e the Silver Bodgie and the Fat Man forgot.
I suggest instead of posting you continue to read and learn, by the way I detested the Union (AFAP) objected to the exhorbitant fee rip off annually AND was vocal in my objection to events of '89.
The bottom line IT WAS A MATTER OF PRINCIPAL and an Aussie fair go, something that doyen of Labour and Unions that f@#$%K**g S$%#m A.......h.......e the Silver Bodgie and the Fat Man forgot.
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bonvol and Kaptin M
I am well aware that I am with a tough and sometimes vitriolic crowd here, and you guys could not be where you are if you were any other way. In a perverse way, I enjoy it as it is a close as I can get to being back in a testosterone charged airport environment for now.
It is a hard fight to get where you are or were, and I would not wish to change one little thing about personalities, as if I could or would want to.
bonvol - I have broad shoulders as you will no doubt remember, and if I am not capable of copping it, I indeed should not be here.
As for the feathers flying mate, I am well aware of what you mean and have heard the tales. I speak as I find, but was disappointed to hear many years ago that the dark side of the force existed. Damned shame.
Kap - thank you for an endorsement I am not sure I have earned, but very much appreciate. That really caught me on the back foot, but in a very pleasant way. I do really care about this industry and as you would have gathered feel it is greater than the sum of all of us, as we are carrying the burden of those great people from the day of its inception until now.
The only other thing that I can add now is that a force divided is a force defeated.
I have learned many more details about a dark time in all of our histories through this forum, and am grateful for the knowledge as it makes any opinion I may form more valid through it's absorbtion. This combined from what I know makes the conspiracy againsts all of US even more evil.
Clive
What an intelligent and insightful gentleman.It was almost like having my uncle, the late Boomer Collins (Ex RAAF then TN) in the room again. Thank you for excellent input.
Lastly - Woomera
How bleeding tolerant are you, singularly or collectively. There has been a little bloodletting in this topic but you have allowed it to flow within reason and I am sure we all appreciate that and it is amazing how the good people in the forum have moderated. An interesting series of angst graphs could be produced.
Also, thank you for pausing proceedings for Billy Hobday's departure. That, and the fact it was requested by a member in the room speaks volumes for the participating parties and their real feelings for each other reaching beyond the hurt that was '89. Godspeed Bill.
There is hope for this industry while we all hold the dream.
I have never lost it, despite being redundant 3 times in the industry. If you are not with the one you love, love the one you're with good people.
Fly safely and to the absolute limit of your ability (God I wish I could) and enjoy every second.
Thank you all for endorsing a ground hog,and allowing me to participate.
Best regards all
EWL
Ron Knight
I am well aware that I am with a tough and sometimes vitriolic crowd here, and you guys could not be where you are if you were any other way. In a perverse way, I enjoy it as it is a close as I can get to being back in a testosterone charged airport environment for now.
It is a hard fight to get where you are or were, and I would not wish to change one little thing about personalities, as if I could or would want to.
bonvol - I have broad shoulders as you will no doubt remember, and if I am not capable of copping it, I indeed should not be here.
As for the feathers flying mate, I am well aware of what you mean and have heard the tales. I speak as I find, but was disappointed to hear many years ago that the dark side of the force existed. Damned shame.
Kap - thank you for an endorsement I am not sure I have earned, but very much appreciate. That really caught me on the back foot, but in a very pleasant way. I do really care about this industry and as you would have gathered feel it is greater than the sum of all of us, as we are carrying the burden of those great people from the day of its inception until now.
The only other thing that I can add now is that a force divided is a force defeated.
I have learned many more details about a dark time in all of our histories through this forum, and am grateful for the knowledge as it makes any opinion I may form more valid through it's absorbtion. This combined from what I know makes the conspiracy againsts all of US even more evil.
Clive
What an intelligent and insightful gentleman.It was almost like having my uncle, the late Boomer Collins (Ex RAAF then TN) in the room again. Thank you for excellent input.
Lastly - Woomera
How bleeding tolerant are you, singularly or collectively. There has been a little bloodletting in this topic but you have allowed it to flow within reason and I am sure we all appreciate that and it is amazing how the good people in the forum have moderated. An interesting series of angst graphs could be produced.
Also, thank you for pausing proceedings for Billy Hobday's departure. That, and the fact it was requested by a member in the room speaks volumes for the participating parties and their real feelings for each other reaching beyond the hurt that was '89. Godspeed Bill.
There is hope for this industry while we all hold the dream.
I have never lost it, despite being redundant 3 times in the industry. If you are not with the one you love, love the one you're with good people.
Fly safely and to the absolute limit of your ability (God I wish I could) and enjoy every second.
Thank you all for endorsing a ground hog,and allowing me to participate.
Best regards all
EWL
Ron Knight
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EWL. Well said.
I'd give my left one (figuratively speaking) to be back flying EWD into Devonport for the quick turn around and into HBA. Then it would be into the Sheraton or the Casino, chase a few women, maybe even catch one and do it all again in a cupla days.
They were the days! . Old EWA was the best outfit you could have ever worked for. Ah.. nostalgia.
I'd give my left one (figuratively speaking) to be back flying EWD into Devonport for the quick turn around and into HBA. Then it would be into the Sheraton or the Casino, chase a few women, maybe even catch one and do it all again in a cupla days.
They were the days! . Old EWA was the best outfit you could have ever worked for. Ah.. nostalgia.
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Yes bonvol
Watching EWD or any of the girls approaching from the East North East with a setting sun ahead of her on a Summer's eve with 72 happy punters down back of EW75, and then watching the girl turning onto base and then final over town into the Easterly breeze was just the finest thing one could see from a baggage trolley with a cup of coffee in ones paw.
Those that have not frequented DPO would not understand, but trust us, DPO was one of the last bastions of the true industry that despached and flew DC3's and 4's. and Viscounts.
Mind you, Riggy pulling 300 knots on downwind in EWG was amazing, if a little disconcerting, but them was the days and that was Riggy.
I would indeed give my right one to be there to marshall you in and put the nosewheel right in the middle of the circle bonvol.
As long as we carry the culture of operations lost, such as East West, Ansett and indeed TAA/Australian with us in work ethic, the industry still has a chance and the young ones coming up behind us will have a culture to absorb and will be in awe of it.
The best of the best will try to emulate that, and there may be a tiny hope for this industry of ours into the future.
Best
EWL
Watching EWD or any of the girls approaching from the East North East with a setting sun ahead of her on a Summer's eve with 72 happy punters down back of EW75, and then watching the girl turning onto base and then final over town into the Easterly breeze was just the finest thing one could see from a baggage trolley with a cup of coffee in ones paw.
Those that have not frequented DPO would not understand, but trust us, DPO was one of the last bastions of the true industry that despached and flew DC3's and 4's. and Viscounts.
Mind you, Riggy pulling 300 knots on downwind in EWG was amazing, if a little disconcerting, but them was the days and that was Riggy.
I would indeed give my right one to be there to marshall you in and put the nosewheel right in the middle of the circle bonvol.
As long as we carry the culture of operations lost, such as East West, Ansett and indeed TAA/Australian with us in work ethic, the industry still has a chance and the young ones coming up behind us will have a culture to absorb and will be in awe of it.
The best of the best will try to emulate that, and there may be a tiny hope for this industry of ours into the future.
Best
EWL
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leftfrontside,
no difficulty at all dude, or is that dud??
the only people who remember this ridiculous event are those who f#$%&d up their decision and now hate themselves for it. Can you live with that? Obviously not.
no difficulty at all dude, or is that dud??
the only people who remember this ridiculous event are those who f#$%&d up their decision and now hate themselves for it. Can you live with that? Obviously not.
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Leftfrontside.
Your right ,if it was more than a week ago i definately would have forgotten the events at the time.
I will stick to group concerns but in the end im going to look after No1----me.
As for ruining relationships with friends i find that hard to understand.Yes you work as i do with many people,that you drink with ,go golfing etc ,but how many are true friends that you would associate with if you left your job.Maybe out of a 100 you would have 5 top mates.
Im a sheep ,been their and done that ,put my hand up for a strike not wanting one,wondering what so called mates(associates) would think.I was lucky never to get in a situation where it was go to work or not have a job..
Maybe im still off the beaten track,but a final decision is mine,its my life ,its my income.And as someone above mentioned there are a lot who wished they had gone the other way,and yes their are the die-hards i mentioned before who are union crazy.
Find me a place that excepts "principles" instead of cash and you have won me over
Your right ,if it was more than a week ago i definately would have forgotten the events at the time.
I will stick to group concerns but in the end im going to look after No1----me.
As for ruining relationships with friends i find that hard to understand.Yes you work as i do with many people,that you drink with ,go golfing etc ,but how many are true friends that you would associate with if you left your job.Maybe out of a 100 you would have 5 top mates.
Im a sheep ,been their and done that ,put my hand up for a strike not wanting one,wondering what so called mates(associates) would think.I was lucky never to get in a situation where it was go to work or not have a job..
Maybe im still off the beaten track,but a final decision is mine,its my life ,its my income.And as someone above mentioned there are a lot who wished they had gone the other way,and yes their are the die-hards i mentioned before who are union crazy.
Find me a place that excepts "principles" instead of cash and you have won me over
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Yeah, well,interesting post, Ausierotor, or what ever...
Perhaps scumbag might be a more appropriate handle!!
...besides, with your rather limited qualifications, perhaps the Wannabees forum is more suitable for you!!
Get lost!
Perhaps scumbag might be a more appropriate handle!!
...besides, with your rather limited qualifications, perhaps the Wannabees forum is more suitable for you!!
Get lost!
Last edited by amos2; 25th Apr 2003 at 16:47.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Clive
For you and Zoo, I make the point that neither you and he, nor the others who were re-employed after the cut-off date are scabs; provided you had not applied prior to that date.
What you then might have considered is the fact that you left behind colleagues who were not so fortunate, whether it be in regaining their rightful employment, or their inability to obtain work anywhere else through, dare I say, no fault of theirs.
The golden scabs, AGGIE, MADDOGGIE, et al, were of course going to treat you as new, and I don’t doubt you wished to keep your noses clean, just in case.
But really, it won’t wash that there was any reason to join the APA. You had a personal contract. And you will be hard pressed to convince anyone they would down tools to protect you if you ran foul of AGGIE or DORKERS. Or even that fool MADDOGGIE.
I think most of your AFAP colleagues would be very pleased for your return, for in your case, that is what it was. Not in the case of scabs. You were the only ones who actually got your jobs back, unlike the scabs, who bleat incessantly that “(Sob Sob – I was only taking my job back – Sob Sob!” They took yours and everyone else’s, and that is why when you regained yours, it was an altered state.
It would have placed you high in my eyes, and those of your AFAP colleagues, had you remained a member of the AFAP. Forget the award – totally meaningless in the context post ’89 – and you would have been more appropriately repaying the fund which supported you by assisting those members who had gained such benefits as you enjoyed on the day you originally joined.
That is what is meant by “being a man”.
In the context of your new salary benefit, it would have been money better spent. It seems the subs to the APA were a means for a junket for the MARMITES of the world.
For you and Zoo, I make the point that neither you and he, nor the others who were re-employed after the cut-off date are scabs; provided you had not applied prior to that date.
What you then might have considered is the fact that you left behind colleagues who were not so fortunate, whether it be in regaining their rightful employment, or their inability to obtain work anywhere else through, dare I say, no fault of theirs.
The golden scabs, AGGIE, MADDOGGIE, et al, were of course going to treat you as new, and I don’t doubt you wished to keep your noses clean, just in case.
But really, it won’t wash that there was any reason to join the APA. You had a personal contract. And you will be hard pressed to convince anyone they would down tools to protect you if you ran foul of AGGIE or DORKERS. Or even that fool MADDOGGIE.
I think most of your AFAP colleagues would be very pleased for your return, for in your case, that is what it was. Not in the case of scabs. You were the only ones who actually got your jobs back, unlike the scabs, who bleat incessantly that “(Sob Sob – I was only taking my job back – Sob Sob!” They took yours and everyone else’s, and that is why when you regained yours, it was an altered state.
It would have placed you high in my eyes, and those of your AFAP colleagues, had you remained a member of the AFAP. Forget the award – totally meaningless in the context post ’89 – and you would have been more appropriately repaying the fund which supported you by assisting those members who had gained such benefits as you enjoyed on the day you originally joined.
That is what is meant by “being a man”.
In the context of your new salary benefit, it would have been money better spent. It seems the subs to the APA were a means for a junket for the MARMITES of the world.