Still flying after Ansett & related stuff - Vol 2.

[Not_Another_Pot]

As posted by Amos2 I wouldn't waste my time flaming you N-A-P,

You're not worth it!

See, this is what I was on about!!

Grow up! I got over you lot, I bought my own plane! Sorry do you have one?

This is why I left Prune once and I may do it again!

But then, unlike the "89"ers, I have a good sense of humour!

NAP, who is happy!

[leftfrontside]

Hey EWL, always wondered where I was on those so called docs?

THOSE F.................g SCUM BAGS RANG AND BEGGED ME AT LEAST 3 TIMES TO COME BACK because I HAD SOMETHING THEY WANTED!

TCAPT A320 and they were desparate to get it in the air.

THAT'S WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY RECONCILLIATION WITH SCABS.




forgot to add that when the AFAP said apply for your job back, March '90

"I got a letter telling me no positions avail watch the National Papers for any future positions"

Wish I still had it to post here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Bodgie, Scabs and Union A........H........s can all burn in hell after miserable deaths as far as I'm concerned!!!!!!!!!!

[Eastwest Loco]

Those docs passed through my hands, and should not have as I was technically well below the "need to know" category, but EW was very open management.

I see your point, and resorted to defending myself against personal attacks that are ill informed and uncalled for.

My part in attempting to pour oil on the water appears to have been akin to the Exxon Valdez, so I will give it away.

Best regards

EWL

[Sid Departure]

NAP, if you find this topic so distasteful, WHY do you keep reading it!

[amos2]

From NAP...I bought my own airplane, sorry do you have one?

Never ask a question, mate, unless you know the answer...you might end up with egg on your face...as you just have!!!

By the way NAP...professional pilots call aeroplanes aeroplanes, not planes...got that?...Good!

Back to the aero club for you perhaps?

[Sub-Sonic MB]

"Sub Sonic

My God you are anally retentive. Quite simple - as I mentioned earlier the penalty rates/allowances in Traffic as well as every other section of the industry were excessive - THAT was the point.

As to not being worth the dollars?? Another idiot who has never worked with me. My crews were and always will be the best of the best.

Leave personal insults out of this place.

It is below you.

EWL"

I note the ego (of EWL) is higher than the Empire State.

Notwithstanding, I will lay London to a brick that your information is not as accurate as you wish to portray.

Also having been hit for six, you wish take the bat and go home.

I hope not EWL, as shooting down your ego is quite fun.

Further, there is noting in your posts which suggests anyting other than a gratitude to scabs for saving your job. A syndrome encouraged by the Fat Man, and set in stone by his minions.

[halfrhovsquared]

CALLING ON WOOMERA

WOOMERA,

A while back you posted an effective ultamatim reference the 89 dispute.

Please close this one down.

For example that last post by AMOS2 is childish, and he/she is not the only one.

If the kiddies cannot be civil, take away the source of their angst.

They are wasting valuable server space.

[amos2]

For somebody who knows what the co-efficient of lift is, I would expect better than that!

[Eastwest Loco]

Sub Sonic

I will NEVER take my bat and ball and go home. And as to ego, I have no problem there. I suggest you speak to any pilot on either side of the arguement who operated an F27, F28 or 146 through either Wynyard or Devonport when they were in my control and ask as to the efficiencey and professionalitiy of the turnaround.

Do not criticise what you have no knowledge of.

I am not and never have been an egotistical person. I treasure my mates Amos, and those mates have widely varied views. I have tried my best to bring them back together, and if one or two make contact again then I will be well pleased.

You have been a serial stirrer in here for a good while Amos.

I am proud of what I did in commercial aviation before retreating to Agency and still miss the razors edge of a small airline very much.

The Airline is more important than the individual in the best of all worlds.

I will not be maligned by idiots Amos.

You qualify.

I apologise to all other PPRuNers for the above outburst, but do not back down from it.

Amos shooting down my ego? Good luck finding a target mate, and try not to suffer injury from friendly fire.

Why is it one cannot even have a reasoned discussion with you?

Goodnight from an obviously genetically aberated, egotistical and manic depressive Loco.

EWL

Must be time for my medication


NURSE?????????????

[amos2]

Hmmm!...I get this strong feeling that I am being mis-maligned here!!

[greybeard]

Clive,

I may have maligned you unintentionally, the so called 12/13 were actually what it was all about, GETTING OUR JOBS BACK.
You are not to whom I referred in my post, sorry!

You were a taker of a brave move considering the climate of the time, 4 were from Perth , one other turned it down, now in a better position with Dragon I think.

EWL, we made decisions, we cannot rewrite history, just try to stop the ******s of the past stuffing up the future.

[Woomera]

You guys are just going to have to try harder.

It would be very easy for me to lock this thread and go to zero tolerance on '89, but I don't believe that would solve any problems for either side and there is still some way yet to go.

Dammit - there seems to be a softening of the anger on both sides

I am ashamed at your treatment of YOUR friend EWL.

He has been a moderate and considerate poster was not a pilot therefore cant be vilified by either side, he was negatively affected in the same way us the rest of us by Abeles and Hawke, has been holding out his heart and a hand in the hope of some reconciliation and he cops a bucket.

amos2, pull your head in. You are entitled to feel any way you wish, just be careful at whom and how you aim.

As EWL says just keep talking it out and it will keep coming out.

I have seen some new stuff here that continues to reveal new issues or events from both sides.

Both sides have had to, or continue to bear their crosses.

Perhaps, just maybe, both sides will eventually get to understand where the other side is coming from.

That doesn't mean you have to rush into each others arms.

Just talk about it with at least a soupcon of civility, you might just learn something about yourselves and each other and get to team up against the REAL enemy, who have wrecked both lots of lives by their criminal actions.

I am not an '89er or "hero" and have not flown for either, but I will say it again.

As an Australian citizen I have never been so sickened and ashamed of the abuse of the separation of powers, the suborning of the Constitution and the laws of the land, the placing of Australian passengers at such huge risk and the use of the military against our own citizens, regardless of the "rightness" or not of their cause.

This was Australia, which was supposed to be the land of the "fair go" and "looking after your mates", the land with which he was supposed to be having a love affair.

His bawling performance whilst he announced the Tien an Men student amnesty wasn't for them, as most people thought, it was because he was just so totally overwhelmed by the weight of his own wonderfulness.

We were all his and the fat mans victims one way or the other.

The '89ers have a right to be aggrieved, the others, like the '89ers have to live with their decision and the recent AN collapse.

You each chose your position at the time, calling each other names just doesn't achieve anything, vigorous discussion does.

We must make sure it never ever happens again.

It's up to you whether this thread gets locked and I go to zero tolerance.

I'll say it again, keep talking, but stop calling each other names and lay off the personal abuse. Period

[bonvol]

EWL, you are with a pretty tough crowd here. The way we saw the dispute is a bit like Dubya...you were either with us or you were agin us.

You had mates on both sides and still do by the sounds. I can understand your intentions to try and get some sort of remarriage happening for the good of mankind but it just can't happen. The Israelis will be building theme parks for the Palestinians before that happens.

Also, some of the blokes on the "other" side who are your mates were completely different animals in an aircraft. It even amazed me as to the Jekyll and Hyde nature some of them possessed. Ask around about the feathered variety and you will find some amazing (true)stories. Also, when you say how much it moved you when you marshalled in the first F28 post dispute that is like waving a very large red flag to a very large number of bulls.

And for the 89'ers who weren't in EWA let me say that EWL was one of those ground staff who always had boyish enthusiasm for the job and tirelessly did his best. He's understandably on the fence on this one but should probably just leave the field of combat to the main protagonists. It's easier on the blood pressure

[Kaptin M]

Win one......lose one.
14 years after, YOUR viewpoint is still obviously worth a lot, EWL.
In the interests of all concerned - not the least YOURSELF - your real (true) viewpoint has been challenged.

Perhaps more than a little unfair on a public forum, however you have decided to become an active participant, and thus come squarely and fairly (or vv ) into the limelight.

Do you sail with the wind whenever possible, or do you sometimes tack?
IMHO, I believe the second is a fair assessment of you, EWL.

EastWest Loco has consistently spoken his mind on the events of 1989 - not as a pilot, but as one who was DIRECTLY affected by our actions, and the actions forced upon us, the pilots.
That the "non-pilot" COULD have stood up at the time and said, "STOP, this just isn't right - this is NOT what being an Australian is all about" was apparently beyond the scope of most.
Those who did take that stand were likely to (also) lose their secure airline position(s), leaving them (and THEIR families) "on the streets".

And so let's not zero in on one individual, but rather look at how we/they "appear" as a group.
In my opinion (of course), nothing has really changed a great deal over the past 14 years - the scabs decided to be exactly that, and stuck to that "tag" to spite themselves, by not allowing the re-employment of pilots who can only be described as innocents - with the exception of The Dirty Dozen aka The 12 Disciples, of whom Clive was one. (and PPscab was NOT!!)

As bonvol says, EWL

you are with a pretty tough crowd here.

...but we're an HONEST lot.
And I reckon YOU fit in pretty well!!

[Clive]

OH DEAR !!!

In the 4 years that I have been a user of PPRUNE (3 of those as a registered user) I have made only 27 posts (this the 28th). I normally reserve my diatribe for times when I think I might have comments of some use/interest.

Clearly I have failed as the 3 pages of posts since my comments were posted, just this morning, have predominately comprised of a litany of abuse and hatred directed at some undeserving souls. I will retire again to a position of interested observer and apologize to those that I have caused grief through my views and opinions.

[Kaptin M]

Don't take a back seat, Clive.
Be a man - and attempt to CLARIFY that which you feel needs clarification, in general terms.

Your opening/closing post was, in my opinion, one of the most insightful that has appeared on this topic.

Rather than desisting, back up your previous posts with further first-hand experiences.
Each of us has his own experience to recount - none of which is wrong, no matter how strong the opposing viewpoints!!

[Clive]

Yeah.... I know your right Kaptin.

I guess what I mean is that I certainly won't be drawn into the "name calling" and the "hurling of abuse", particularly at individuals.... deserving or not.

One thing my tertiary studies have given me is some pretty strong views on the love/hate relationship our industry has formed with most of us. Like marriage (on occasions), I would have to give serious consideration as to recommending this crazy lifestyle to by little boy, or not so little girl. Mind you, the subsonic's and lefthandside's of this world would not accept them in any event.

Cheers.

[greybeard]

Woomera et all,

Thanks for your patience and continued support of a forum which is at best controversial and at its worse pure vitriol.

EWL has sent it along a slightly different track, Clive has dropped a different slant on the "13" which had slipped under my guard and I have PMed him on such.

We have probably spent a lot of our anger and vitriol in slightly the wrong direction according to many who were on the fringes, or late commers to the fray, however certain individuals who caused me and my family the angst reported many moons ago on this site are hard to forgert and impossible to forgive.

Their actions in their eagerness to be forgiven and be accepted into the International scene makes us wonder to their sincerity considering their well documented actions to exclude us in previous times.

So where are their true faces we ask?

Once severly bitten by our so called mates we are a wary lot and probably personally quite vindictive being only human after all.

Again, thankyou, keep us on track if you can, bin us if we step too far thats all we can ask and expect.

C YA

[Clive]

Thanks for the PM Greybeard, hope you got my reply.

Nobody can, or should try to, deny you your emotions (I hope I was not guilty of that). You are not alone in your occasional venting of them. I stand accused of the same from time to time(not on the Flight Deck thank heavens). I believe it is healthy (so we are told).

As I said in my PM.... I hope your slightly early retirement brings you happy days and at least some fond memories.

Enjoy.

[Sub-Sonic MB]

Clive

It never ceases to amuse me that the only people in these fora who complain about name calling are those who happen to be scabs, or in your case, (bear in mind I have NOT accused you of being one), someone who flew with them.

I posed questions to you, and instead of responding, you accuse me of name calling, or hurling abuse.

There is a difference in stating facts about one's behaviour, such as scabbing, and the character deficiency associated with the condition, and name calling or hurling abuse.

I, in my few posts, state facts about character, and in the case of scabs, it is self evident except to those who hold that qualification.

In your case, I asked you a fairly simple question, did you remain a member of the AFAP, and you did not answer it, which leads me to the conclusion you cannot respond in the positive.

In which case, I suggest you not only let your fellow 89er's down, but embraced the morally bankrupt characters with whom you then flew.

Had you remained a member of the AFAP, even a closet one, I would have hailed you as a man of character.

It is of little value to you to simply sign off because you don't like any repsonse.

Be a man - don't run away because you didn't get responses which you thought would make everyone like you for the circumstance which surrounded you.

Let's face it, you might have 18 months of extreme difficulty, but enjoyed ten years of extreme wealth in terms of income, while many of your fellow 89er's had none.