Network EBA
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Whenever you hear the phrase “we can’t increase the cost of the package” remember this has be trotted out at nearly every QF group negotiation in the last 20 years…..
Do you honestly think that the group turns around when the price of oil goes up 10% and says…. Sorry, we can’t pay anymore for fuel because we’re unable to increase the cost of our overall package…… what do they do…..? they cop it, pay the higher price and then slip in a price increase or fuel surcharge the next quarter…… DON’T FALL FOR IT!!!
Do you honestly think that the group turns around when the price of oil goes up 10% and says…. Sorry, we can’t pay anymore for fuel because we’re unable to increase the cost of our overall package…… what do they do…..? they cop it, pay the higher price and then slip in a price increase or fuel surcharge the next quarter…… DON’T FALL FOR IT!!!
They come out with this rhetoric (BS) at every wage negotiation they are party to.
They tell you how tough it is & all the other stories they can dream up to try & get you to cave in to an inferior deal.
Dont fall for their s..t, its amazing how little sweeteners turn up when the screws are applied & suddenly the empty money pot is not as empty as they would have liked you to believe.
Unrecognisable for the better?
I guess the point I am making is
-would we be in this position if everyone was still part of the one union, not only back the, but more importantly now- because the current set up having two industrial bodies hasnt been effective. Surely you would concede that.
If not, whats you view on the best way forward?
I guess the point I am making is
-would we be in this position if everyone was still part of the one union, not only back the, but more importantly now- because the current set up having two industrial bodies hasnt been effective. Surely you would concede that.
If not, whats you view on the best way forward?
I think AFAP is the answer after years of the other groups Fing it up and being corrupted by the company (Nathan Safe and others!)
Have to wonder how someone like that looks at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Let me clear up INOAC and QF’s bargaining position:
1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide.
Network pilots operate 180 seat, Qantas branded domestic jets over routes (Pilbara, Broome, Darwin etc.) that Qantas short haul operated for years.
FWC can just put Network pilots on the short haul award and everyone can get on with doing business and digging up rocks to export to China.
An ex union president?
Have to wonder how someone like that looks at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Let me clear up INOAC and QF’s bargaining position:
1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide.
Network pilots operate 180 seat, Qantas branded domestic jets over routes (Pilbara, Broome, Darwin etc.) that Qantas short haul operated for years.
FWC can just put Network pilots on the short haul award and everyone can get on with doing business and digging up rocks to export to China.
Have to wonder how someone like that looks at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Let me clear up INOAC and QF’s bargaining position:
1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide.
Network pilots operate 180 seat, Qantas branded domestic jets over routes (Pilbara, Broome, Darwin etc.) that Qantas short haul operated for years.
FWC can just put Network pilots on the short haul award and everyone can get on with doing business and digging up rocks to export to China.
The deal put to the vote would have seen all of the NWK pilots paid above the award. The majority decided what was on offer was not enough, which is fine. So we shall see what the FWC decides.
Let’s say it is QF SH (personally I highly doubt that) but if it was then the company I would suspect would be rather motivated to ensure they are used like QF SH crew and multi day trips might become the norm. Something that very much did have a restriction placed on it in the deal voted down and one that doesn’t exist in the expired deal.
An ex union president?
Have to wonder how someone like that looks at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Let me clear up INOAC and QF’s bargaining position:
1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide.
Network pilots operate 180 seat, Qantas branded domestic jets over routes (Pilbara, Broome, Darwin etc.) that Qantas short haul operated for years.
FWC can just put Network pilots on the short haul award and everyone can get on with doing business and digging up rocks to export to China.
Have to wonder how someone like that looks at themselves in the mirror every morning.
Let me clear up INOAC and QF’s bargaining position:
1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide.
Network pilots operate 180 seat, Qantas branded domestic jets over routes (Pilbara, Broome, Darwin etc.) that Qantas short haul operated for years.
FWC can just put Network pilots on the short haul award and everyone can get on with doing business and digging up rocks to export to China.
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1. We made $2.47b of profit
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide
2. We can’t possibly afford to pay 250 of our below-award employees a cent more
It’s that simple.
The FWC may be stacked with liberals, but they aren’t stupid. To give Qantas any sort of industrial win here (while they are simultaneously deciding the compensation for 1700 illegally sacked workers, while public sentiment is at an all time low and profits are astronomical) - that would be seen as suicide
Qantas has signalled that it cannot afford to pay its pilots a salary that keeps up with inflation. If it cannot afford this, it cannot afford any of the other inflationary impacts that are occuring. This means every pilot should be looking for another job and preparing to resign. With statements like "we cannot afford to increase pilot salaries" well there you have it, they cannot remain it business. Time to resign enmasse.
Qantas is litterally encouraging you all to resign!
Qantas is litterally encouraging you all to resign!
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Ironically, a union president who screwed colleagues he was supposed to represent and who flipped sides to sell his soul for KPIs, is now industrially overseeing the slow moving train wreck of a company who refuse to acknowledge they need to adapt to a changing supply/demand equation.
Your inability to listen and to doggedly stick to the old industrial plan (divide and conquer, fear, threats, bullsh*t “strategic imperatives”) - you’re doing Jacob van Zanten proud.
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After 60 pages (on this thread alone) and four failed votes, still the only way you know how to do business is with fear and threats 🥱
Ironically, a union president who screwed colleagues he was supposed to represent and who flipped sides to sell his soul for KPIs, is now industrially overseeing the slow moving train wreck of a company who refuse to acknowledge they need to adapt to a changing supply/demand equation.
Your inability to listen and to doggedly stick to the old industrial plan (divide and conquer, fear, threats, bullsh*t “strategic imperatives”) - you’re doing Jacob van Zanten proud.
Ironically, a union president who screwed colleagues he was supposed to represent and who flipped sides to sell his soul for KPIs, is now industrially overseeing the slow moving train wreck of a company who refuse to acknowledge they need to adapt to a changing supply/demand equation.
Your inability to listen and to doggedly stick to the old industrial plan (divide and conquer, fear, threats, bullsh*t “strategic imperatives”) - you’re doing Jacob van Zanten proud.
Sorry but that’s hardly accurate.
Let’s say it is QF SH (personally I highly doubt that) but if it was then the company I would suspect would be rather motivated to ensure they are used like QF SH crew and multi day trips might become the norm. Something that very much did have a restriction placed on it in the deal voted down and one that doesn’t exist in the expired deal.
Let’s say it is QF SH (personally I highly doubt that) but if it was then the company I would suspect would be rather motivated to ensure they are used like QF SH crew and multi day trips might become the norm. Something that very much did have a restriction placed on it in the deal voted down and one that doesn’t exist in the expired deal.
It must be very lonely for you at work (if in fact you do work there) when 77% of your colleagues are opposing the deal that you supposedly think is great….
Still waiting for you to point out the negative aspects of the deal/s on offer. If you can’t be objective and provide a balanced argument, then it’s very suspicious about whether you actually are a Network Pilot as you claim.
It must be very lonely for you at work (if in fact you do work there) when 77% of your colleagues are opposing the deal that you supposedly think is great….
It must be very lonely for you at work (if in fact you do work there) when 77% of your colleagues are opposing the deal that you supposedly think is great….
Happy to point out some of the downsides if you like. Although I fail to see why I’d be the person required to do so when many here are more than happy for a 100% negative slant on any offer.
It would also help if you could establish with reference to what you’d like me to highlight the negatives? If it’s compared to expired deal I’m operating under now and the laughable Roster Protocol then that would be challenging. If you want it against someone’s best else’s deal then you can cherry pick any clause to show it might have less RDOs, a lower DHA rate and lower overtime rate etc etc. but for myself it’s always been about comparing whatever deal has been on offer against the current one and likely outcome of turning down what’s on offer.
To your other point no it’s not lonely at all. I find the vast majority of my colleagues professional and able to seperate their views with those of another. That’s the case for those who have been in favour or against of any of the proposed deals as I’ve found each person has the few main things that get it over the line or not for them and these often vary.
And just like that, you still avoided the question. Far out, is it that hard? I guess when you’re a troll it must be.
Come on, let’s hear the negative aspects of the deal on offer in your opinion. I don’t want a comparison between old deal/new deal, just plain and simple, point out what doesn’t work for you.
Come on, let’s hear the negative aspects of the deal on offer in your opinion. I don’t want a comparison between old deal/new deal, just plain and simple, point out what doesn’t work for you.
And just like that, you still avoided the question. Far out, is it that hard? I guess when you’re a troll it must be.
Come on, let’s hear the negative aspects of the deal on offer in your opinion. I don’t want a comparison between old deal/new deal, just plain and simple, point out what doesn’t work for you.
Come on, let’s hear the negative aspects of the deal on offer in your opinion. I don’t want a comparison between old deal/new deal, just plain and simple, point out what doesn’t work for you.
Establishment of some for of guaranteed days off to enable certain life events without having to bid for adhoc leave or roll the dice with a roster request.
IPDs to be linked to a formula and minimum guarantee or actual stick time like JQ (sorry for the comparison but I like there set up.
An establishment an ability to have standing roster requests such as early or late shifts and some metric for this to be measured against with the pilot council and a framework to improve in this area.
Rostered time and min payment at productivity for all online courses and updating of EFB etc which is basically done for free.
An establishment and rewrite of the annual leave system that addresses the size of the airline rather than the outdated one in existence.
Ensuring the same percentage parody exists between F/Os and Captains.
Training and Checking allowances to be based on a percentage take rather than a fixed amount. The same would apply for any allowance to be a percentage where it’s currently a fixed amount.
That is a non exhaustive list but goes someway to answering your newly worded question.
Despite all that, if IB doesn’t produce a far superior deal to the one on offer and the deal doesn’t yield any improvements for the time taken to achieve it then whatever every wants or would like is irrelevant and we will be stuck to move employers of continue to operate on a deal from IB that is no better than what we could of had access to far earlier and then negotiating for the next one much sooner.
Look at the two possible outcomes from here:
1. Good deal for NAA pilots - Qantas no longer has motivation to transfer business to subsidiaries and might as well bring NAA, NJS and JC in-house
2. Bad deal for NAA pilots - the pilots pack up en-masse (which they’re already doing) and leave for greener pastures like Jetstar DEC, NAA can’t crew flights and the whole thing implodes.
At this point, QF have already lost no matter what happens with the NAA pilot agreement.
The problem here for the head of IR, is one of pride.
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Glad you’re so happy to see the possibility of NWK being wrapped up as a great outcome for the people who have established lives in Perth. It wasn’t such a horrible place during Covid when other airlines were
collapsing and offered a flying job. The joys of most airlines in Australia mean it’s rather problematic to transfer your skills and experience and have them afford you a similar position with another competitor. Overseas a complete different ballgame but that comes with it moving your family or commuting which doesn’t suite everyone despite the pay check it provides.