Network Aviation PIA
Basically what it will go up if it’s signed prior to October next year- so that’s an initial increase.
People don’t have any major grievances with the base pay, they’re just not fond of the overtime rate, the prospect of spending over 1000 hours on reserve each year, increasing amounts of time sitting or overnighting at minesites without DTA and deadheading in economy everywhere. The overtime rate that is being proposed positively incentivises the company to max out everyone’s hours and then start looking for extra work. They’ll view it as a saving because it will be so much cheaper than having mainline do it.
People don’t have any major grievances with the base pay, they’re just not fond of the overtime rate, the prospect of spending over 1000 hours on reserve each year, increasing amounts of time sitting or overnighting at minesites without DTA and deadheading in economy everywhere. The overtime rate that is being proposed positively incentivises the company to max out everyone’s hours and then start looking for extra work. They’ll view it as a saving because it will be so much cheaper than having mainline do it.
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- QF Short Haul EBA8 (expired) = 128 Pages
- Network EA 2023 (proposed) = 38 Pages
Apparently the IB process doesn't take competitors into consideration.
Nor do the Commissioners compare same job, same pay.
That is not their process.
They will look at current work, and 'better off overall' on the last agreement.
Perhaps they will consider inflation, but who knows, this will be a test-case.
Qantas Legal will present a case, and so will AIPA, AFAP & TWU.
The rest, and the subsequent ruling is completely out of our hands.
Nor do the Commissioners compare same job, same pay.
That is not their process.
They will look at current work, and 'better off overall' on the last agreement.
Perhaps they will consider inflation, but who knows, this will be a test-case.
Qantas Legal will present a case, and so will AIPA, AFAP & TWU.
The rest, and the subsequent ruling is completely out of our hands.
Want to know why group negotiations are being dragged out - Intractable Bargaining only eligible after Minimum Bargaining Period elapses:
Nine months elapse since commencement of bargaining/nominal expiry of previous agreement (whichever is later)
After FWC makes an IB declaration, it may decide to set a post-declaration negotiating period, allowing for more time for the parties to reach agreement.
Nine months elapse since commencement of bargaining/nominal expiry of previous agreement (whichever is later)
After FWC makes an IB declaration, it may decide to set a post-declaration negotiating period, allowing for more time for the parties to reach agreement.
Last edited by RealSatoshi; 30th Nov 2023 at 14:42.
Qantas may win the battle but they will loose the war when more than half their Network Pilots decide its time to bugger off somewhere else. They only people they have in the pipeline are a few low time single Pilots from Jandakot to fill the gap. That's if they even turn up for the interview, which most don't. What a shambles.
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Contrary to what is being touted by QF management et al, layman's research seems to indicate that during Intractable Bargaining, the 3 Commissioners will review the EA currently proposed and after listening to reason, derive a directive from that.
Nowhere is any reference made to the common belief that they will revert back to the previous/expired document, deleting the conditions currently on the table to simply start back at zero. Real indications are that they will deliberate and build on the EA as currently proposed, nothing less.
A respected Law Firm who wrote an op-ed piece on this topic concluded that for Intractable Bargaining, "Preparation is Key".
It would serve all unions well, to walk into Intractable Bargaining with a definitive Matrix Summary of all T&C's for current Group Companies and in so doing present to the 3 Commissioners exactly Where & Why the Co's proposed EA falls well short of industry norms, especially referencing same norms within QantasLink and the QF group as a whole.
Arrive unprepared and you will be roasted as well as probably leave the room having gained nothing
Nowhere is any reference made to the common belief that they will revert back to the previous/expired document, deleting the conditions currently on the table to simply start back at zero. Real indications are that they will deliberate and build on the EA as currently proposed, nothing less.
A respected Law Firm who wrote an op-ed piece on this topic concluded that for Intractable Bargaining, "Preparation is Key".
It would serve all unions well, to walk into Intractable Bargaining with a definitive Matrix Summary of all T&C's for current Group Companies and in so doing present to the 3 Commissioners exactly Where & Why the Co's proposed EA falls well short of industry norms, especially referencing same norms within QantasLink and the QF group as a whole.
Arrive unprepared and you will be roasted as well as probably leave the room having gained nothing
Last edited by RealSatoshi; 3rd Dec 2023 at 01:30.
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If you read it and don’t value the additions well that’s a different thing but I can tell you no sims after annual leave is a really desirable addition. The lack of that alone has caused many pilots holidays last week to be ruined by a less than understanding training department. The limit on standbys also is a good thing.
If you are no longer OPC valid, what other duty can you be assigned other than a sim on your first day back?
On the contrary, if you remain OPC valid and 90 days recent, you want EBA protection to ensure you fly the line prior to stepping into the sim?
If (as a current and valid) flight-crew member, you require a 1 week disruption from your AL prior to stepping into the sim, then you equally require a 1 week disruption prior to operating the line; otherwise you are just operating on a wing and a prayer. It’s either both or none, not one or the other.
Contrary to what is being touted by QF management et al, layman's research seems to indicate that during Intractable Bargaining, the 3 Commissioners will review the EA currently proposed and after listening to reason, derive a directive from that.
Nowhere is any reference made to the common belief that they will revert back to the previous/expired document, deleting the conditions currently on the table to simply start back at zero. Real indications are that they will deliberate and build on the EA as currently proposed, nothing less.
A respected Law Firm who wrote an op-ed piece on this topic concluded that for Intractable Bargaining, "Preparation is Key".
It would serve all unions well, to walk into Intractable Bargaining with a definitive Matrix Summary of all T&C's for current Group Companies and in so doing present to the 3 Commissioners exactly Where & Why to Co's proposed EA falls well short of industry norms, especially referencing same norms within QantasLink and the QF group as a whole.
Arrive unprepared and you will be roasted as well as probably leave the room having gained nothing
Nowhere is any reference made to the common belief that they will revert back to the previous/expired document, deleting the conditions currently on the table to simply start back at zero. Real indications are that they will deliberate and build on the EA as currently proposed, nothing less.
A respected Law Firm who wrote an op-ed piece on this topic concluded that for Intractable Bargaining, "Preparation is Key".
It would serve all unions well, to walk into Intractable Bargaining with a definitive Matrix Summary of all T&C's for current Group Companies and in so doing present to the 3 Commissioners exactly Where & Why to Co's proposed EA falls well short of industry norms, especially referencing same norms within QantasLink and the QF group as a whole.
Arrive unprepared and you will be roasted as well as probably leave the room having gained nothing
The process is intended to be enacted if there are a few points of disagreement, not wholesale rejection of a proposal, so I don’t know how that will work but you’d think some standard would be necessary. I have no idea whether they base all determinations on the award or use industry standards, but the overall impression is that they are not stupid and won’t be hoodwinked by either side.
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If (as a current and valid) flight-crew member, you require a 1 week disruption from your AL prior to stepping into the sim, then you equally require a 1 week disruption prior to operating the line; otherwise you are just operating on a wing and a prayer. It’s either both or none, not one or the other.
Most people don't study before a day of normal ops line flying, nor are they expected to. Thats the difference.
Most outfits I've ever worked at have had something along the lines of no jeopardy checks on return from leave (or other similar protection). Obviously if currency is going to be an issue its done before going on leave, if someone is off for an extended period there will be refresher training anyway.
I don't know the finer points of how the Network crews are trying to work it, but its not uncommon or unreasonable.
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Most people study for SIM and most organisations expect crews to - sometimes including a written component or other pre reading thats expected to be completed before fronting up.
Most people don't study before a day of normal ops line flying, nor are they expected to. Thats the difference.
Most outfits I've ever worked at have had something along the lines of no jeopardy checks on return from leave (or other similar protection). Obviously if currency is going to be an issue its done before going on leave, if someone is off for an extended period there will be refresher training anyway.
I don't know the finer points of how the Network crews are trying to work it, but its not uncommon or unreasonable.
Most people don't study before a day of normal ops line flying, nor are they expected to. Thats the difference.
Most outfits I've ever worked at have had something along the lines of no jeopardy checks on return from leave (or other similar protection). Obviously if currency is going to be an issue its done before going on leave, if someone is off for an extended period there will be refresher training anyway.
I don't know the finer points of how the Network crews are trying to work it, but its not uncommon or unreasonable.
It’s not unreasonable what they’re asking for Jester. Most other places have it.
What a crock.
If you are no longer OPC valid, what other duty can you be assigned other than a sim on your first day back?
On the contrary, if you remain OPC valid and 90 days recent, you want EBA protection to ensure you fly the line prior to stepping into the sim?
If (as a current and valid) flight-crew member, you require a 1 week disruption from your AL prior to stepping into the sim, then you equally require a 1 week disruption prior to operating the line; otherwise you are just operating on a wing and a prayer. It’s either both or none, not one or the other.
If you are no longer OPC valid, what other duty can you be assigned other than a sim on your first day back?
On the contrary, if you remain OPC valid and 90 days recent, you want EBA protection to ensure you fly the line prior to stepping into the sim?
If (as a current and valid) flight-crew member, you require a 1 week disruption from your AL prior to stepping into the sim, then you equally require a 1 week disruption prior to operating the line; otherwise you are just operating on a wing and a prayer. It’s either both or none, not one or the other.
READ the proposed EA. If you aren’t current the clause doesn’t apply. If you are current then you can fly the line safely, right? You’re either current or not?
In any case it’s not about currency, it’s about having to study for sim whilst on the one decent break you might get all year! Jesus, I can’t believe I need to spell it out to people.
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So if you don’t want to study while on leave (or any other time) then don’t. Last time I checked NWK had EBT these days and unlimited repeats on som stuff and rest you don’t know so…
What a double crock.
READ the proposed EA. If you aren’t current the clause doesn’t apply. If you are current then you can fly the line safely, right? You’re either current or not?
In any case it’s not about currency, it’s about having to study for sim whilst on the one decent break you might get all year! Jesus, I can’t believe I need to spell it out to people.
READ the proposed EA. If you aren’t current the clause doesn’t apply. If you are current then you can fly the line safely, right? You’re either current or not?
In any case it’s not about currency, it’s about having to study for sim whilst on the one decent break you might get all year! Jesus, I can’t believe I need to spell it out to people.
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I just can’t understand why AIPA and mainline pilots aren’t all over this pushing hard to ensure Network get the best possible deal, instead of sleepwalking headlong into the dismantling of Qantas domestic as we know it.
With Alliance already taking huge chunks of flying away on the east coast and soon QantasLink with A220s taking even more, it’s obvious that Network is poised and ready to expand east as soon as some substandard deal is signed.
A few 321LRs will be all that’s left doing transcontinental and the rest will be filled by A220s, E190s and Network 320s..
With Alliance already taking huge chunks of flying away on the east coast and soon QantasLink with A220s taking even more, it’s obvious that Network is poised and ready to expand east as soon as some substandard deal is signed.
A few 321LRs will be all that’s left doing transcontinental and the rest will be filled by A220s, E190s and Network 320s..
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