Network Aviation PIA
Save that Soseg and we’ll come back in 10 years and see how wrong you were.
With too many people like you, maybe that is where the industry in Australia is destined to go. But if there’s enough positive people with the right approach, things will change in the near future. Do you think the US was saying 6-7 years ago that they’d be looking at the massive payrises that they’ve received lately…
With too many people like you, maybe that is where the industry in Australia is destined to go. But if there’s enough positive people with the right approach, things will change in the near future. Do you think the US was saying 6-7 years ago that they’d be looking at the massive payrises that they’ve received lately…
The USA has a few things we don’t. A proper balanced and functioning economy, a comprehensive hub and spoke route structure, an aviation friendly bureaucracy and 330+ million people…. To name but a few. And importantly it does not have just the single dominant entity which has corrupted politicians and bureaucrats to bend to its will and which crushes any meaningful competition.
One man’s negativity is another’s realism. I’m with Soseg.
But, this conversation will be interesting to revisit in say 5 years.
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Hate to say it but Soseg stands as good a chance of being correct as you do.
The USA has a few things we don’t. A proper balanced and functioning economy, a comprehensive hub and spoke route structure, an aviation friendly bureaucracy and 330+ million people…. To name but a few. And importantly it does not have just the single dominant entity which has corrupted politicians and bureaucrats to bend to its will and which crushes any meaningful competition.
One man’s negativity is another’s realism. I’m with Soseg.
But, this conversation will be interesting to revisit in say 5 years.
The USA has a few things we don’t. A proper balanced and functioning economy, a comprehensive hub and spoke route structure, an aviation friendly bureaucracy and 330+ million people…. To name but a few. And importantly it does not have just the single dominant entity which has corrupted politicians and bureaucrats to bend to its will and which crushes any meaningful competition.
One man’s negativity is another’s realism. I’m with Soseg.
But, this conversation will be interesting to revisit in say 5 years.
As I’ve said numerous times though, I’m a firm believer that the majority of the A220’s will be flown by mainline anyway. NJS can’t recruit enough people now. And that’s fact.
Seem to have been able to get away with it between ADL - BNE…
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Always welcome a balanced view Lucille. One thing to consider though, is the legality of “transfer of business”. They can’t just stop flying 737’s between say Sydney and Perth 1 day with mainline, and then start the next with A220’s with NJS.
As I’ve said numerous times though, I’m a firm believer that the majority of the A220’s will be flown by mainline anyway. NJS can’t recruit enough people now. And that’s fact.
As I’ve said numerous times though, I’m a firm believer that the majority of the A220’s will be flown by mainline anyway. NJS can’t recruit enough people now. And that’s fact.
Ive been speaking to them about this for the last two years. Unfortunately it’s not this clear and that’s why the 737 doesn’t fly PER DRW anymore, and is losing or lost BRM and PHE. ADL is next.
The way this was explained to me was that these transfer of business laws are written so poorly and are so much in favour of the company that put simply, Qantas can stop flying a 0900 service to Darwin with mainline, and tomorrow simply fly a Netlink service at noon. The fact it’s a different time is legal enough in their favour to argue it’s not a transfer of business and not the same service.
There was more to this, like cabin lay out and some other stuff. But for us to be able to argue transfer of business then the service would have to literally be a word for word copy. Which it is not.
Give AIPA legal a ring. PM me the results.
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Always welcome a balanced view Lucille. One thing to consider though, is the legality of “transfer of business”. They can’t just stop flying 737’s between say Sydney and Perth 1 day with mainline, and then start the next with A220’s with NJS.
As I’ve said numerous times though, I’m a firm believer that the majority of the A220’s will be flown by mainline anyway. NJS can’t recruit enough people now. And that’s fact.
As I’ve said numerous times though, I’m a firm believer that the majority of the A220’s will be flown by mainline anyway. NJS can’t recruit enough people now. And that’s fact.
Transfer of business becomes even more vague when putting different size aircraft on routes.
DRW ASP would have like 45 passengers on it. I can’t remember the reason why for a period of time the 737 was doing it. It certainly didn’t make sense. It’s an Ejet now anyway isn’t it?
But definitely harder for crew to sit back and watch an a320 take 737 flying when the seating difference is 6 seats and the company spin this as a lack of business travel on that route when the economy cabin isn’t full and J class generally looked close to full to me those sectors. Definitely full PER ADL and if the HBA rumours are true then over a year ago when mainline lost the PER DRW route they were told it was because they needed more J seats on PER HBA. So that’ll go down well if the a320 does it.
Long term NJS does have an A220 crewing issue. They won’t be able to crew 29 of them at this stage but the environment is dynamic and things can change fast in their favour. The delays in the deliveries in this respect may work in the companies favour.
NJS pilots were bullied to a terrible EBA. They crumbled when they were threatened with losing the new airframe. Only a few weeks later, there was a terrible hangover once they realised what they had done.
So many of them have left since then, I’m surprised they have enough to crew the few airframes they have left. Many cancellations are crewing related.
The only pilots hanging around at NJS are those on the hold file for mainline, or that ones who can’t get anything better.
Once NAA have a new deal, NJS will be the worst paid RPT jet pilots in the country.
The federal government have quashed foreign hire, and anyone left in Australia with decent experience won’t be going to NJS. You either go to mainline, Jetstar or Virgin, or you stay in your current job flying turboprops or GA until one of those big three snaps you up.
You’d have to be a legit fool to take an A220 job on what they’re offering.
The tactics until now have been divide and conquer. Bully subsidiaries into crap EBAs and then outsource mainline flying to the cheapest.
The problem now, as we’re seeing at NAA, is that pilots in this country have suddenly realised they’re becoming extremely valuable and playing everyone against each other is not going to work.
Either NJS will need to pay market rates similar to short haul, or they’re going to have to get shorthaul to crew the last 19 airframes.
I’ll be surprised if NJS can crew the first ten. If you want to fly one, you’d be better off joining mainline and waiting a year or two as an SO and then becoming an A220 FO on proper pay, rather than joining NJS on rubbish pay and putting the final nail in your coffin for ever getting into mainline.
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Until there are legal scope clauses (which there never will be), no flying should be seen as 'safe' for any entity.
Just look at how the E190 has taken over most flying into/out of CBR. More seats and more frequency than when mainline operated MEL/BNE/ADL.
....and Allianz will continue to pick up even more flying as the 717's go away and the 220's are delayed out of the factory.
Crew wont be the problem for the A220, it will be the availability of the airframe itself.
Just look at how the E190 has taken over most flying into/out of CBR. More seats and more frequency than when mainline operated MEL/BNE/ADL.
....and Allianz will continue to pick up even more flying as the 717's go away and the 220's are delayed out of the factory.
Crew wont be the problem for the A220, it will be the availability of the airframe itself.
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I want some of whatever you’re smoking.
NJS pilots were bullied to a terrible EBA. They crumbled when they were threatened with losing the new airframe. Only a few weeks later, there was a terrible hangover once they realised what they had done.
So many of them have left since then, I’m surprised they have enough to crew the few airframes they have left. Many cancellations are crewing related.
The only pilots hanging around at NJS are those on the hold file for mainline, or that ones who can’t get anything better.
Once NAA have a new deal, NJS will be the worst paid RPT jet pilots in the country.
The federal government have quashed foreign hire, and anyone left in Australia with decent experience won’t be going to NJS. You either go to mainline, Jetstar or Virgin, or you stay in your current job flying turboprops or GA until one of those big three snaps you up.
You’d have to be a legit fool to take an A220 job on what they’re offering.
The tactics until now have been divide and conquer. Bully subsidiaries into crap EBAs and then outsource mainline flying to the cheapest.
The problem now, as we’re seeing at NAA, is that pilots in this country have suddenly realised they’re becoming extremely valuable and playing everyone against each other is not going to work.
Either NJS will need to pay market rates similar to short haul, or they’re going to have to get shorthaul to crew the last 19 airframes.
I’ll be surprised if NJS can crew the first ten. If you want to fly one, you’d be better off joining mainline and waiting a year or two as an SO and then becoming an A220 FO on proper pay, rather than joining NJS on rubbish pay and putting the final nail in your coffin for ever getting into mainline.
NJS pilots were bullied to a terrible EBA. They crumbled when they were threatened with losing the new airframe. Only a few weeks later, there was a terrible hangover once they realised what they had done.
So many of them have left since then, I’m surprised they have enough to crew the few airframes they have left. Many cancellations are crewing related.
The only pilots hanging around at NJS are those on the hold file for mainline, or that ones who can’t get anything better.
Once NAA have a new deal, NJS will be the worst paid RPT jet pilots in the country.
The federal government have quashed foreign hire, and anyone left in Australia with decent experience won’t be going to NJS. You either go to mainline, Jetstar or Virgin, or you stay in your current job flying turboprops or GA until one of those big three snaps you up.
You’d have to be a legit fool to take an A220 job on what they’re offering.
The tactics until now have been divide and conquer. Bully subsidiaries into crap EBAs and then outsource mainline flying to the cheapest.
The problem now, as we’re seeing at NAA, is that pilots in this country have suddenly realised they’re becoming extremely valuable and playing everyone against each other is not going to work.
Either NJS will need to pay market rates similar to short haul, or they’re going to have to get shorthaul to crew the last 19 airframes.
I’ll be surprised if NJS can crew the first ten. If you want to fly one, you’d be better off joining mainline and waiting a year or two as an SO and then becoming an A220 FO on proper pay, rather than joining NJS on rubbish pay and putting the final nail in your coffin for ever getting into mainline.
Delays of the 220 and GTF related issues mean it'd be surprising to see the 29th delivered by the end of the decade. That gives them a long time to figure this out - keep in mind the cadets in Wellcamp have essentially been told NJS is a likely first placement. As much as I'd love to see the 220s at mainline the reality is very different.
They can’t just stop flying 737’s between say Sydney and Perth 1 day with mainline, and then start the next with A220’s with NJS.
Until there's ONE union representing ALL pilots in this country nothing will change.
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I think its in reference to the fact they will only have about three aircraft in the next year, and merely a few more in the year following.
By that stage covid 2 will have arrived to solve the crewing issues, or a bunch of cadets with DECs and a few overly enthusiastic SOs on secondment.
By that stage covid 2 will have arrived to solve the crewing issues, or a bunch of cadets with DECs and a few overly enthusiastic SOs on secondment.
When Qantas told the NJS pilots “sign here or we’ll sack you all and give the flying to Network/Alliance/Qlink” what help was it AFAP represented all parties? Did it head off the threat? Did pilot groups all mobilise together to stop Qantas?
Sadly no.
Not having a dig at the pilots involved, I understand their decision. I just don’t see how having only one union suddenly changes the power balance. It’s not worked that way historically.
I just don’t see how having only one union suddenly changes the power balance.
Sometimes if you take an idea to an extreme it can help to expose or identify a more subtle principal, or less obvious truth. For example, if you imagine for a moment that we had 3000 different unions representing Australian pilots, you can easily see that the power balance would be changed.
One Union fixes nothing. In fact it just makes it easier for corruption to occur. It also allows subsidiaries to be used as pawns in pay negotiations for the mainline operations.
The whole point of unionism is unity ie; ONE!
Two unions only ever favour the company
Let us not forget that the union that is being derided above is the one whose members rejected the first Network deal and lodged a PIA application, while the other two unions endorsed the first deal!
Two unions only ever favour the company
Let us not forget that the union that is being derided above is the one whose members rejected the first Network deal and lodged a PIA application, while the other two unions endorsed the first deal!
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Having multiple Unions is fine as long as they work together. Differing opinions occur from time to time but that shouldn’t mean that a group is wrong. Just different.
If I found out a Union was working to undermine or bag out another Union then they can get stuffed.
GA guys tend to support the AFAP as that’s who supported them during their GA careers. Makes sense to continue that support. AIPA was invented to support Qantas Pilots. Their office is inside QF HQ and many ex AIPA people become QF management.
If I found out a Union was working to undermine or bag out another Union then they can get stuffed.
GA guys tend to support the AFAP as that’s who supported them during their GA careers. Makes sense to continue that support. AIPA was invented to support Qantas Pilots. Their office is inside QF HQ and many ex AIPA people become QF management.