All borders to reopen.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Not a pilot; and usually politically quite left of centre. I am involved in COVID data work and advisory including analysis towards air travel reopening. I can say that 'zero' is a bloody-minded, aesthetic and egotistical choice by several state leaders and their close sets of advisors.
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The data shows that we all had a great and successful approach March-May but now the wheels are well and truly off. Yes it is better that the wheels rolled south to zero, rather than rolled north to infinity -- but they are still off. The majority of relevant scientists, sociologists, economists and data-wranglers are NOT being harnessed or listened to; and state and national strategy is a total shambles.
.......
The data shows that we all had a great and successful approach March-May but now the wheels are well and truly off. Yes it is better that the wheels rolled south to zero, rather than rolled north to infinity -- but they are still off. The majority of relevant scientists, sociologists, economists and data-wranglers are NOT being harnessed or listened to; and state and national strategy is a total shambles.
unexplained blip thanks for taking the time to contribute that post to this forum. I know this place is anonymous and we cannot truly know who is writing what, but it’s nice to have different perspectives put to us.
The UK locked down and largely contained the virus a few months ago, then they relaxed most restrictions. This resulted in another wave and a second lockdown being imposed,
Singapore locked down for seven weeks back in April/May to contain a surging case load, restrictions were heavily enforced. The virus was largely contained and a gradual opening up was initiated. Some restrictions are still in place but apart from international travel and nightclubs things are largely back to normal, with nearly two weeks of no new local cases and around sixty current ones.
A gradual easing of restrictions and a carefully monitored, staged opening up can be safely accomplished.
Singapore locked down for seven weeks back in April/May to contain a surging case load, restrictions were heavily enforced. The virus was largely contained and a gradual opening up was initiated. Some restrictions are still in place but apart from international travel and nightclubs things are largely back to normal, with nearly two weeks of no new local cases and around sixty current ones.
A gradual easing of restrictions and a carefully monitored, staged opening up can be safely accomplished.
Join Date: Jun 2019
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NSW have 30 days with no unknown community transmission, QLD said its 15 days so if it keeps going they could open 6th December or wait to the 26th December to make a decision.
unexplained blip Great post can we have it on the front page of the newspaper please!
Random snap lockdowns and border closures on outbreaks that don't even meet national hotspot criteria will continue to kill tourism, avaition and education.
Who will ever book a WA holiday again if you may get thrown in quarrantine prison due to a decison made mid flight? As for Anastacia Pluckaduck - inexcusable politicing to play to the parochial penaut gallery.
Gladys is the only grown up in the country right now.
Random snap lockdowns and border closures on outbreaks that don't even meet national hotspot criteria will continue to kill tourism, avaition and education.
Who will ever book a WA holiday again if you may get thrown in quarrantine prison due to a decison made mid flight? As for Anastacia Pluckaduck - inexcusable politicing to play to the parochial penaut gallery.
Gladys is the only grown up in the country right now.
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Probably sticking my neck out but I can't help thinking more than 99% of people infected, survive Covid, many didn't even know they had it.
If the world never knew it existed in the first place, would it have spread around the world with the media reporting an unusually virulent flu season? without the extraordinary hysteria we see at the moment.
Sorry to the true believers, but I can't help thinking that the "Cure" might just end up worse than the disease.
If the world never knew it existed in the first place, would it have spread around the world with the media reporting an unusually virulent flu season? without the extraordinary hysteria we see at the moment.
Sorry to the true believers, but I can't help thinking that the "Cure" might just end up worse than the disease.
Annual deaths in UK and US are on track to be 10% higher than normal. They're countries that haven't taken it seriously. It's the equivalent of another 15000 people dying this year on top of our normal death rate.
And the problem with that is....?
Sure, it is depressing and upsetting for some. But so is losing your job, your home, your livelihood and your future because we've locked down the country, close our state borders at the drop of a tissue and think that is an appropriate response! Of course it is an appropriate response.... But that's when viewed from a health perspective. Ask an Economist if they think closing the borders as done so far is an appropriate response to "save" 15,000 lives and you'll get a very different answer...
Sure, it is depressing and upsetting for some. But so is losing your job, your home, your livelihood and your future because we've locked down the country, close our state borders at the drop of a tissue and think that is an appropriate response! Of course it is an appropriate response.... But that's when viewed from a health perspective. Ask an Economist if they think closing the borders as done so far is an appropriate response to "save" 15,000 lives and you'll get a very different answer...
And the problem with that is....?
Sure, it is depressing and upsetting for some. But so is losing your job, your home, your livelihood and your future because we've locked down the country, close our state borders at the drop of a tissue and think that is an appropriate response! Of course it is an appropriate response.... But that's when viewed from a health perspective. Ask an Economist if they think closing the borders as done so far is an appropriate response to "save" 15,000 lives and you'll get a very different answer...
Sure, it is depressing and upsetting for some. But so is losing your job, your home, your livelihood and your future because we've locked down the country, close our state borders at the drop of a tissue and think that is an appropriate response! Of course it is an appropriate response.... But that's when viewed from a health perspective. Ask an Economist if they think closing the borders as done so far is an appropriate response to "save" 15,000 lives and you'll get a very different answer...
Sweden just ended their experiment too.
Australian economists: don’t sacrifice health for ‘the economy’
Albeit written in April, when calls to reopen from the usual suspects had already started. It’s difficult to find a consensus or any real comment from economists now about the state of the border. There’s some talk of allowing migrants or international students, but these would be long term arrivals with a 2 weeks quarantine. I think the talk here is more of international tourists or short term visitors who probably wouldn’t want a two week enforced stay in a hotel room before being allowed to go outside and spend money in the economy.
But the Covidiotism is strong in some parts of the world (mostly the US). From abuse of doctors, to patients dying in denial and angry, to patients who refuse masks and demand quack treatments, to those who think it’s all political and finally the healthcare workers suffering the emotional toll of having to deal with these morons.
I don’t know if the virus was to break out in Australia that we would see the same level of brainwashed cult like denialism that has allowed to virus to ravage other parts of the world.
The only adult flaunts rules every one else has to abide by!:
NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian under fire over breach of NSW Health isolation rules after coronavirus test
NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian under fire over breach of NSW Health isolation rules after coronavirus test
Dre,
Seen as you are keen to use the USA as an example, I will too. Under the CARES act, private hospitals get an additional 20% for COVID patients, and uninsured COVID patients are paid for by the federal government. If you think that's lost of private hospitals with shareholders and unconnected to the figures you quote, I have a car you might be interested in. Back to Australia, and many of those that have perished from COVID did so because of the poor controls over those caring for the elderly in care homes, the large majority having multiple underlying conditions (a family member included).
I am no tin hat wearer; COVID is real, and it kills the vulnerable. But maybe we should have moved to protect the vulnerable rather than running around like Chicken Little and closing all the borders and stuffing up the economy for decades; for most of us, we have a >99% chance of survival.
If your at 36,000 feet and you have a problem with the plane, you don't stop flying.
Seen as you are keen to use the USA as an example, I will too. Under the CARES act, private hospitals get an additional 20% for COVID patients, and uninsured COVID patients are paid for by the federal government. If you think that's lost of private hospitals with shareholders and unconnected to the figures you quote, I have a car you might be interested in. Back to Australia, and many of those that have perished from COVID did so because of the poor controls over those caring for the elderly in care homes, the large majority having multiple underlying conditions (a family member included).
I am no tin hat wearer; COVID is real, and it kills the vulnerable. But maybe we should have moved to protect the vulnerable rather than running around like Chicken Little and closing all the borders and stuffing up the economy for decades; for most of us, we have a >99% chance of survival.
If your at 36,000 feet and you have a problem with the plane, you don't stop flying.
Dre,
Seen as you are keen to use the USA as an example, I will too. Under the CARES act, private hospitals get an additional 20% for COVID patients, and uninsured COVID patients are paid for by the federal government. If you think that's lost of private hospitals with shareholders and unconnected to the figures you quote, I have a car you might be interested in.
Seen as you are keen to use the USA as an example, I will too. Under the CARES act, private hospitals get an additional 20% for COVID patients, and uninsured COVID patients are paid for by the federal government. If you think that's lost of private hospitals with shareholders and unconnected to the figures you quote, I have a car you might be interested in.
But maybe we should have moved to protect the vulnerable rather than running around like Chicken Little and closing all the borders and stuffing up the economy for decades; for most of us, we have a >99% chance of survival.
On IMF forecasts, the economic contraction in the United States, the whole of the Euro area, the United Kingdom, and Canada will be twice that of Australia.
And the whole notion of “protecting the vulnerable” is far easier said than done.
If your at 36,000 feet and you have a problem with the plane, you don't stop flying.
It sounds like you’re suggesting that US hospitals are deliberately inflating Covid numbers for cash. That is pretty much tin foil hat stuff right there. It’s also quite fake.
And the whole notion of “protecting the vulnerable” is far easier said than done.
The "more money for CoVID cases" isn't a tin hat at all.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/
It only applies to Medicare (USA) patients.
After a 4 week stay in hospital 30 years ago, I heard nurses speak openly about exaggerating the condition of patients to get more weekly budget allocation. When I hear allegations of exaggerating patients diagnosis or cause of death during covid, I don't find it surprising at all.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/
It only applies to Medicare (USA) patients.
After a 4 week stay in hospital 30 years ago, I heard nurses speak openly about exaggerating the condition of patients to get more weekly budget allocation. When I hear allegations of exaggerating patients diagnosis or cause of death during covid, I don't find it surprising at all.
Never denied that point. It’s the subsequent implication that hospital and medicos are deliberately lying and over inflating Covid numbers for that extra cash that is not backed by any evidence. From your article:
Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."
Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."