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Old 21st Jun 2020, 13:57
  #121 (permalink)  

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Happy to pile in on China Dan, but it appears to be Family transmission. The BLM protests have not contributed to the spike...yet.
Of those new cases, one is a close contact of a Keilor Downs family, taking the total number linked to that outbreak to 11 spread across nine households. Another new case is linked to a Coburg family, taking that outbreak to 14, and three are linked to the Stamford Plaza Hotel, bringing that outbreak to 13.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 14:05
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman
Happy to pile in on China Dan, but it appears to be Family transmission. The BLM protests have not contributed to the spike...yet.
Keilor Downs family has been attending work/family gatherings and sending their kids to school despite testing positive to covid. But yes let's just blame the BLM protesters
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 14:16
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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BLM protestors have a noble cause, but they have no idea what the outcome of the public gathering could do or will do, endangering the very people they were seeking to protect. As these family community transmission show this thing will bolt out of the gates if given the opportunity. The implication will be borders shut down longer and aviation held back even longer. It was a stupid ideological thing to do and damaged their cause and that of getting the country and aviation going.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 14:48
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Three weeks after they began, it looks like the protests in the US have NOT caused an increase in COVID infections:

Thereís No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 20:32
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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The big problem with Victoria has been the inconsistencies with the rules from day one.
Ignoring the travelling and concentrating on the social/gathering aspects.
Firstly we are locked down with some fairly strict rules including things like "essential shopping only". OK, we have to beat this virus yet Bunnings not restricted? It should have been closed to non-ABN holders. This caused a few to question the process.
Now we are having weekly demonstrations. The first was deemed illegal and participants told not to go. The police stated that enforcing it was "not feasible". 3x $1600 fines were issued at a later date. The Victorian government has the ability to fine individuals up to $20,000 due to state of emergency powers etc. Who cares that the demonstrators washed their hands-should do it anyway. As for masks, protestors actually would love that- it's a chance to hide if it gets ugly. It's interesting seeing public areas and noting the difference in ratios of mask wearers compared to these events.
I understand the Victorian government didn't want a fight like the US but by doing nothing has undermined it's population's will to bother. Who cares whether there is an outbreak stemming from this or not? If one does occur we can all shout "told you so", if it doesn't, great we've dodged a bullet. The fact that the government demands and threatens daily yet allows certain activities justs creates divide. Why should I bother staying home, no-one else does.
Lock-down fatigue is now becoming very real, people are frustrated and now we are being threatened with door to door visits and the locking down of suburbs.



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Old 21st Jun 2020, 23:57
  #126 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose
Keilor Downs family has been attending work/family gatherings and sending their kids to school despite testing positive to covid.
Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 23:58
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Three weeks after they began, it looks like the protests in the US have NOT caused an increase in COVID infections:

There’s No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge
Thats like claiming the virus doesn't spread on aircraft. Lol.

Originally Posted by clark y
Lock-down fatigue is now becoming very real, people are frustrated and now we are being threatened with door to door visits and the locking down of suburbs.
Good. Because they are ****ing it for the rest of us. They should all be wound and up placed in an isolation hotel.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 00:49
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ozbiggles
BLM protestors have a noble cause, but they have no idea what the outcome of the public gathering could do or will do, endangering the very people they were seeking to protect. As these family community transmission show this thing will bolt out of the gates if given the opportunity. The implication will be borders shut down longer and aviation held back even longer. It was a stupid ideological thing to do and damaged their cause and that of getting the country and aviation going.

Just listened to the Fed Gov CMO on ABC RN and his concern with the BLM protests wasn't actually transmissions, but that it would move other people to say stuff it, if they can we can!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:03
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with that too ex. It is a discipline thing and whether people agree or disagree with how we got to where we are I think we all agree if we drop the ball now on treating Covid as the threat it is, then it will just sux (gave up trying to think of a clever word for it). That will be another hit to the aviation world.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:20
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by exfocx
Just listened to the Fed Gov CMO on ABC RN and his concern with the BLM protests wasn't actually transmissions, but that it would move other people to say stuff it, if they can we can!
Simple solution- those who canít adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months. Reoffend- make it 12. Fines donít work, we all know they will never get paid.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 02:52
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Green.Dot
Simple solution- those who can’t adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months. Reoffend- make it 12. Fines don’t work, we all know they will never get paid.

Sorry, but I don't agree with that view point and I don't agree with the large % of the community who view a protest such as BLM (inequality etc) as the same as a gathering at the footy or a concert etc. These protests are bloody small in comparison and are held in limited numbers, not the same as 30 odd major sporting events (AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL,ANL, night clubs, pubs and w/end sport club gatherings etc,where the total numbers would likely be over 1/2 mil pw, EVERY week.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 03:58
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rmm
Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?
ah you would hope so, but I don't think the taxpayers would like to foot the bill for someone else's incompetence
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 04:16
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Why not? We have to foot the bill for that all the time!

ex I understand why the BLM is such a big event but the point is there are no crowds at the footy, cricket, soccer etc etc because we were told they are the rules to keep as many people as safe as possible. The BLM protestors were told that and marched anyway. One of the main reasons Aus and NZ shutdown so hard was to protect the indigenous population who were thought to be most at risk if this pandemic took hold in those countries. It strikes me as worse than ironic. The family transmissions we are now seeing out of Victoria and the effect that will now occur because of that shows the immaturity of their decision to march (maybe not as reckless as a political rally held indoors) It will directly effect aviation in this country getting back on its feet (it is after all an aviation site).

Last edited by ozbiggles; 22nd Jun 2020 at 04:26.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 06:00
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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We are such a weak, divided and corrupt nation, these restrictions etc where never going to work effectively long term! Get used to living in a country that flounders from one cock up to another!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 06:51
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by exfocx
These protests are bloody small in comparison and are held in limited numbers, not the same as 30 odd major sporting events (AFL, NRL, A-League, NBL,ANL, night clubs, pubs and w/end sport club gatherings etc,where the total numbers would likely be over 1/2 mil pw, EVERY week.
Sorry what large sporting crowds are you referring to? Biggest one I have heard of was 2000 in Adelaide a week or so ago. And I wasnít specifically referring to BLM, more so people who have knowingly tested positive and then think itís a good idea to go to a family BBQ or go to work.

But thatís ok, letís just keep breaking the law and getting away with it- seems to be the Australian way!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 10:54
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Green.Dot
Sorry what large sporting crowds are you referring to? Biggest one I have heard of was 2000 in Adelaide a week or so ago. And I wasnít specifically referring to BLM, more so people who have knowingly tested positive and then think itís a good idea to go to a family BBQ or go to work.

But thatís ok, letís just keep breaking the law and getting away with it- seems to be the Australian way!

Green.Dot, (Simple solution- those who canít adhere to the rules get their welfare (JobKeeper/JobSeeker/dole/whatever) terminated for 3 months.) Sorry, took your comment to be directed broadly against those who break the rules. My comments are in relation to people complaining that if BLM (etc) protests are okay then so is their ability to socialise like the old days (shit, hope it doesn't become a reality to view previous norms like that!).

Laws came be made to be whatever the gov of the day wants. QLD outlawed protest marches without a permit in the 70s & 80s (and Joh said none would be given!), so sometimes laws were made to be broken, and no I think those idiots moving around when they have been quarantined isn't an exception, though obviously imo protests are different.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 13:14
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rmm
Shouldn't they be rounding them up and placing them in a secure hotel like returned travelers?
Maybe, but apparently these "secure" hotels aren't that secure, not policed by the defence forces and many travellers have "checked out" prior to the 14 days quarantine period
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 13:30
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Originally Posted by missy
many travellers have "checked out" prior to the 14 days quarantine period
do you have a source regarding this?
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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 03:09
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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The hotels I worked in as an authorised officer that housed quarantined travellers were very secure. Very little chance of getting out, let alone without being seen and caught.

The potential penalty for an individual not following the mandatory quarantine direction for overseas arrivals is nearly $20,000 (120 penalty units). All in quarantine are made ware of this on arrival.
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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 03:37
  #140 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by missy
Maybe, but apparently these "secure" hotels aren't that secure
It would appear from media reports that the contract security guards are more the issue, not the detained guests.
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