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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:00
  #7821 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
I'm amazed at how some of you guys interpret the written word, If it makes any difference about percentages, we in WA already have about 70% registered for their jab and no hope in hell of getting all of us that wants it, jabbed with two doses this year. We will continue to maintain zero covid until they are, then the health system has to be ready for rising cases, before any discussion will be entered into regarding open borders date. I can't make it any clearer than that.
And there is the problem right there. You seem to think you can't handle it. Maybe you're right. Then again - your CHO - Andy Robertson, testified in Clive's original s.92 case that the WA health system is capable of handling 5,000 active Covid cases, with, IIRC, 500 in ICU at any one time - and that was a year ago! So what's changed that you now cannot handle it?

If the WA health system can't handle a few thousand cases, with maybe 5% of those in hospital, you've got bigger problems than Covid...Though, if reports of WA hospitals having to ramp ambulances for many hours at a time are indeed accurate, then maybe you do!

Originally Posted by Xeptu
Sounds like those outside WA are reading rubbish.
We're not the one's reading PerthNow where McGowan proudly proclaimed:
Originally Posted by PerthNow
The Premier said that despite National Cabinet agreeing that Australia would open up when an 80 per cent vaccination rate was achieved, he would retain a zero COVID policy and not tolerate any cases or deaths in WA. Source
Now, maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but...the only way I can see this occurring - The only way - is if he continues on his current crusade of border restrictions a'la John Howard and his boat people "We vill dezide who comes into our state and ze manner in vich zey come!"

Last I checked, Zero Covid was not mentioned anywhere in the Doherty modelling or the 4-stage roadmap - and present evidence of multiple overseas jurisdictions demonstrates it is an unattainable goal, no matter your Countries' vaccination level! That being the case, for how long are Australian Citizens expected to be denied their constitutional right to travel to WA without being penalised because of the state in which they live?
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:41
  #7822 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by WingNut60
But what was claimed above was that he doesn't follow the terms of the current agreements.

My question remains "what has he done that contravenes current agreements"?
Stated specifically that even at 80% he may keep the hard border up to NSW!
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:50
  #7823 (permalink)  
 
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The muppet can keep the ‘hard border’ up for as long as wants. Once everyone else opens up to each other and Covid is everywhere there will be no stopping it from entering WA. There are 100s of truck drivers crossing the border everyday and numerous Facebook pages with hints and tips on how to get into WA undetected (plenty of bush tracks).
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:54
  #7824 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
The muppet can keep the ‘hard border’ up for as long as wants. Once everyone else opens up to each other and Covid is everywhere there will be no stopping it from entering WA. There are 100s of truck drivers crossing the border everyday and numerous Facebook pages with hints and tips on how to get into WA undetected (plenty of bush tracks).
Lets hope WA police are checking those face book pages.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:54
  #7825 (permalink)  
 
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That being the case, for how long are Australian Citizens expected to be denied their constitutional right to travel to WA without being penalised because of the state in which they live?
As long as the WA government can prove there is a threat to public health restriction of movement is perfectly legal. If you can prove otherwise you can force them to allow freedom of movement. International law on human rights and our constitution allows restriction of movement for public health, public order or to protect others rights. No point quoting constitutional rights if they don't apply in current circumstance. It does not even have to be a public health emergency, that just makes the case stronger for the rules.

That's why the protesters are double morons, if they create civil disorder they give the state further power to restrict movement.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 08:57
  #7826 (permalink)  
 
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We know it will come into the state, we know we will have to live with it, we must maintain zero until the state is ready, it won't be this year. The Premier is entitled to stick it up the liberals any way he likes, it won't change the plan.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 09:00
  #7827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
As long as the WA government can prove there is a threat to public health restriction of movement is perfectly legal. If you can prove otherwise you can force them to allow freedom of movement. International law on human rights and our constitution allows restriction of movement for public health, public order or to protect others rights. No point quoting constitutional rights if they don't apply in current circumstance. It does not even have to be a public health emergency, that just makes the case stronger for the rules.
A state of emergency must be declared, it's not forever and we don't want it to be forever, nor will it be.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 09:13
  #7828 (permalink)  
 
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A state of emergency must be declared, it's not forever and we don't want it to be forever, nor will it be.
The states rules require that, not the general human rights we are signed up to.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 09:53
  #7829 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
We know it will come into the state, we know we will have to live with it, we must maintain zero until the state is ready, it won't be this year. The Premier is entitled to stick it up the liberals any way he likes, it won't change the plan.
and there’s the problem. The fool is so focussed on political posturing. If federal labor were in, there’s no way he’d be such a recalcitrant prick. Each way albo even says he supports the reopening plan. Mcgoose will just change the ‘best health advice’ to suit his political agenda.

you don’t need to be clear. You will have as much say in what happens with the borders as I do.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 09:53
  #7830 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator
The Premier said that despite National Cabinet agreeing that Australia would open up when an 80 per cent vaccination rate was achieved, he would retain a zero COVID policy and not tolerate any cases or deaths in WA. Source
Here’s an example of where the media twists a quote to get a headline where the real quote wasn’t exactly what was said:

“If you imagine we get to 80 per cent vaccination, and Aboriginal communities, remote communities, some country towns are at much lower levels, we may have to lock those down at some point in time for whatever reason – I think that makes total sense and that was what was agreed,” Mr McGowan said.

“I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID”


So a lot of nuance and media putting their own spin on quotes - not a “zero Covid policy and No cases or deaths”, just “keen to have minimal or no Covid”.

Not full lockdowns at 80%, targeted lockdowns for specific areas like indigenous communities.

And nowhere had the cabinet agreed to a plan where Australia “opens up” at 80%, we move to Phase C at 80% which still involves some restrictions, Phase D is more open but still there’s some countermeasures.

Everything isn’t going back to normal the day we hit 80%, it’ll be better but it’ll also be gradual and phased.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 09:56
  #7831 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
... International law on human rights and our constitution allows restriction of movement for public health, public order or to protect others rights. ...
The Australian Constitution is largely silent on the matter of restrictions of movement, save for s 92.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 10:07
  #7832 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Here’s an example of where the media twists a quote to get a headline where the real quote wasn’t exactly what was said:

“If you imagine we get to 80 per cent vaccination, and Aboriginal communities, remote communities, some country towns are at much lower levels, we may have to lock those down at some point in time for whatever reason – I think that makes total sense and that was what was agreed,” Mr McGowan said.

“I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID”


So a lot of nuance and media putting their own spin on quotes - not a “zero Covid policy and No cases or deaths”, just “keen to have minimal or no Covid”.

Not full lockdowns at 80%, targeted lockdowns for specific areas like indigenous communities.

And nowhere had the cabinet agreed to a plan where Australia “opens up” at 80%, we move to Phase C at 80% which still involves some restrictions, Phase D is more open but still there’s some countermeasures.

Everything isn’t going back to normal the day we hit 80%, it’ll be better but it’ll also be gradual and phased.
Yep, all correct as far as I can see, why is it people turn it into something it isn't, Is it desperation driven.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:13
  #7833 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Keg
Stated specifically that even at 80% he may keep the hard border up to NSW!
Correct - as the agreement allows.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:17
  #7834 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
Yep, all correct as far as I can see, why is it people turn it into something it isn't, Is it desperation driven.
I am amazed that, while NSW festers, so many people are desperate to point out failings that they think they can see in WA and McGowan.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:18
  #7835 (permalink)  
 
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McGowan is also quoted saying:

"Our preferred option is zero COVID obviously and that's what we'll attempt to do,"
Mr McGowan on Sunday said WA's "preferred option is zero COVID-19" and he would not tolerate any cases or deaths in his state.

"We don't want to have deaths and we don't want to have spread of the virus, but there can be some easing of some of the rules," he told Sky News Australia.

What other conclusion are people supposed to make from that?

Last edited by ExtraShot; 25th Aug 2021 at 11:32.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:19
  #7836 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105
The Australian Constitution is largely silent on the matter of restrictions of movement, save for s 92.
Though it does protect you from being penalised based solely on the state in which you live, which would be applicable if it were demonstrable that there is no health basis to the blanket decision. Ie someone in Broken Hill who could fly to Perth via Adelaide is no risk to WA compared to someone at Bondi who has to travel through Sydney. Granted, they now have cases out there, but for argument's sake, if there is no demonstrable risk, then you should not be penalised for it - and that's where WA needs to be careful, I think, as you cannot keep locking out everyone in a state for a handful of cases...

Originally Posted by dr dre
“I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID”
Okay, we'll us your words if it'll make you happy...But, do tell the rest of us, just how McGowan plans on actually getting "minimal or no" Covid in WA?

Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"?
Originally Posted by The West
Mark McGowan says his “preferred position is that we don’t have COVID” He said the lockdown of NSW showed it’s “better not to have COVID” and he would only abandon borders and lockdowns as virus suppression weapons when Australia reaches the last phase of National Cabinet’s four-step plan out of the pandemic.
"Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out."

(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position,. People will criticise, I just want to say, ‘Look at our life, look at all this’. People out having lunch, having fun, people at work, the office blocks have got the highest staffing levels back of anywhere in Australia, our schools are operating, our economy is going the strongest in Australia of anywhere in the world — isn’t a good thing?Source
Originally Posted by WingNut60
I am amazed that, while NSW festers, so many people are desperate to point out failings that they think they can see in WA and McGowan.
Maybe because Australian's don't like being taken advantage of by smug pricks who won't pull their own weight? It's all fine and dandy for McGowan to have a crack at Gladys and say "You should've locked down earlier!", but perhaps McGowan should've been pulling his weight with incoming passengers and particularly airfreight per capita? Same for Dan, when they screwed the pooch last year, they cancelled all incoming arrivals through Melbourne. Last I looked, Sydney is still taking the vast majority of incoming passengers, with the risk that entails...

He conveniently forgets to mention that NSW handles the majority of both, yet seems content for everyone to reap the benefits of it...
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:21
  #7837 (permalink)  
 
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I think people are just frustrated with the whole Covid issue and want it to be over. I think everyone will pull their heads in as NSW deteriorates and has the entire nations undivided attention.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:26
  #7838 (permalink)  
 
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Correct - as the agreement allows.

Actually at Phase C, post 80% vaccination it says:"Exempt vaccinated residents from all domestic restrictions..." - happy to be corrected but I assumed this meant domestic travel restrictions.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 11:44
  #7839 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator
Okay, we'll us your words if it'll make you happy...But, do tell the rest of us, just how McGowan plans on actually getting "minimal or no" Covid in WA?

Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"?
Minimal or no Covid - it’s up to interpretation how much you think is “minimal”, but we’re a long way off where the answer will be known.

Reading far too much into it it could even be a comment about the “Disease” of Covid-19, rather than case numbers of the virus. And having “minimal” Covid may mean minimising the amount of disease affecting the health system. But I think that’s reading too much into it and honestly at this stage we’re reading too much into any comments about what’s going to happen post Phase A.

"Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out."

“(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position,
Seems to be referring to “now”, as in the present day, Phase A. What happens when Phase B/C is reached is a matter for that time, for the moment just need to keep the vaccinated numbers increasing.

There’s some info out there saying that going from Phase C to D would only be a matter of weeks.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 13:36
  #7840 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by goodonyamate
and there’s the problem. The fool is so focussed on political posturing. If federal labor were in, there’s no way he’d be such a recalcitrant prick. Each way albo even says he supports the reopening plan. Mcgoose will just change the ‘best health advice’ to suit his political agenda.

you don’t need to be clear. You will have as much say in what happens with the borders as I do.
I'm going to take a stab and say the NSW outbreak was the result of political posturing
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