Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas Recruitment

Old 9th Jun 2018, 07:26
  #1581 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,584
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
I suspect too it's a function of the demographic of the crew being recruited. Given the high number of very experienced pilots applying to be S/Os, it's no surprise that the majority of those getting in are often early 30's with lots of time in either jets or turbo props as other long time F/Os or even Captains. Thus they've done 'the hard yards' (so to speak), have established families, with husbands or wives who established in their own careers. These people are simply more competitive than your 20-24 year old Caravan driver from Broome and it's no surprise the recruitment system jumps at them.

Of course having established families in established locations they're not interested in uprooting everything and heading off to Perth to get an F/O slot. The 22 year old Caravan driver who we overlooked as 'not competitive' and instead recommended to Qlink to fly the Dash 8 would have jumped at the chance for a 737 F/O slot after only a couple of months as a S/O. The sad thing is I know of a couple of very experienced people who would have jumped at a 737 F/O slot in PER and would be great addition to mainline. Sadly their 'customer focus' was adjudged not good enough.

It's ultimately supply and demand. We have enough pilots but the supply says 'we don't want to move to PER'.
Keg is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 09:47
  #1582 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,355
Received 472 Likes on 255 Posts
Originally Posted by Keg

It's ultimately supply and demand. We have enough pilots but the supply says 'we don't want to move to PER'.
Well what's stopping them from advertising for and recruiting directly for 737 FO? Perth Base? Surely that can be done if people are needed in that job but no one in the company wants to do it?

It makes so much more sense than selecting people for one job and then on day one of recruitment asking them if they'd like to take a different one.
dr dre is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 09:48
  #1583 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 493
Received 399 Likes on 73 Posts
Easy fix.

Make 737 FO more lucrative so that experienced SOs aren’t taking a pay cut.

Perhaps grandfather what they are earning in long haul.
Slippery_Pete is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 10:09
  #1584 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,355
Received 472 Likes on 255 Posts
I doubt whether grandfathering would work. There would have to be an increase in pay to that level for all FO's then and I don't see that happening. Otherwise there would be FO's who have been on the 73 for years who are earning much less than those senior SOs who get to keep their SO pay and that wouldn't make for a happy crew.
dr dre is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 11:03
  #1585 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 99 Likes on 38 Posts
By the end of 2020 the Company won’t have any issue getting guys to the 737. The 747 will be gone, the A380 will be full. Unfortunately it will be 787 and A330 as a SO or the 737 for more money.


Last edited by SandyPalms; 9th Jun 2018 at 12:22. Reason: Irrelevant to those outside QF
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 14:04
  #1586 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 49
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Unhappy

Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete
Easy fix.

Make 737 FO more lucrative so that experienced SOs aren’t taking a pay cut.

Perhaps grandfather what they are earning in long haul.

Your kidding right?

How about creating a system that rewards those who challenge themselves by taking promotion within a couple of years grace?

As far as why new recruits don’t want to take promotion, they appear to be slightly older than previously, as Keg said perhaps more settled, married with kids. They have probably just moved signed a lease and someone says “Do you want to move to Per/ADL ?}”

Of course not, it a bit late now. So do a three month course and then spend 1/2 years finding ones feet after a big year. Not to mention selling ones soul to the long days on the 737, and then add the commute in traffic.

The 787 and inevitable 747 RIN will eventually balance the situation out.

In the meantime, when RT stands up and stops the HR children running the show, from pilot recruitment to internal placements, their problems will be solved.
Aussie Fo is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 14:13
  #1587 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 653
Received 57 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete
Perhaps grandfather what they are earning in long haul.
Oooo.... I like this grandfathering idea for senior SOs.

How much are we talking?
ruprecht is online now  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 20:24
  #1588 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 57
Posts: 3,151
Received 550 Likes on 155 Posts
Wish I was a Grandfathering SO
framer is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 23:52
  #1589 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: DeShire
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I’m really surprised 737 Captain went so junior. FO I can understand going junior as LH SO pay is good although your not in a driving seat.
Most of the Captains earn $350k all up ++ Unless I’m being told BS. Hopefully only get better in this shortage.
Lots more time with family. No Night Flying, no jetlag, High hourly rate of pay. Bonus scheme. Rotating seniority.
HOBO seems keen on making sure the long transits are reduced and sick leave looks like it will be fixed.
Understand there will be junior bases as it’s a tough call to move families.Non East Coast cost of living a lot less if prepared to move.
Any idea when the slots for the next six 787 will be released?
knobbycobby is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 06:22
  #1590 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Darwin
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Any news as to whether internal candidates are now simply just attending interviews as per the EOI sent to internals when applications opened in April or is it the entire assessment centre / simulator format?
High_To_Low is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 06:29
  #1591 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by knobbycobby
  • Lots more time with family.
  • HOBO seems keen on making sure the long transits are reduced
  • sick leave looks like it will be fixed.
Might want to check your assumptions, especially #1.
#2 you may want to consider doing 3 or 4 four leg days (2, 3 or 4 aircraft changes) at 11:45 TOD and SYD or MEL road traffic to contend with and 11 or 12 hours between sign-off and sign-on. The record is a roster that had 5 x 4 leg days in a row bouncing between SYD and either MEL or BNE. That was from a published roster without additional flying tacked on. Imagine doing that with a dozen or so aircraft changes.

I'm not surprised of the juniority at all, only about 20% of the commands are RHS ---> LHS.
FYSTI is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 07:18
  #1592 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,584
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre
Well what's stopping them from advertising for and recruiting directly for 737 FO? Perth Base? Surely that can be done if people are needed in that job but no one in the company wants to do it?
Its been suggested previously. I think the current EA prevents it.

I recommended getting those on hold to put in a letter of preference and taking people off the hold file for whatever position matches their LoP. Want a job quickly? 737 PER F/O for you (if suitable in other areas of course). Want to hold out for A380 S/O, May take 6-12 months.... or longer. Not sure of the legalities of this step and no doubt will take some background work to achieve.
Keg is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 07:22
  #1593 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,584
Received 11 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by High_To_Low
Any news as to whether internal candidates are now simply just attending interviews as per the EOI sent to internals when applications opened in April or is it the entire assessment centre / simulator format?
internals May or May not need to do a sim depending on how they’ve fared at their respective group airline. I think they’re all doing an assessment centre. Not sure of psychometric testing.
Keg is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 07:24
  #1594 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Darwin
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Thanks Keg��
High_To_Low is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 08:02
  #1595 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 99 Likes on 38 Posts
Knobby. I wouldn’t say you’ve been fed BS, but those figures would be the all in price for someone in Div 3, with an average of 75-80/BP. So probably not too much ++.
How many are up there, I’ve no idea.
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 08:20
  #1596 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,294
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
[QUOTE][Might want to check your assumptions, especially #1.
#2 you may want to consider doing 3 or 4 four leg days (2, 3 or 4 aircraft changes) at 11:45 TOD and SYD or MEL road traffic to contend with and 11 or 12 hours between sign-off and sign-on. The record is a roster that had 5 x 4 leg days in a row bouncing between SYD and either MEL or BNE. That was from a published roster without additional flying tacked on. Imagine doing that with a dozen or so aircraft changes./QUOTE]

#1 Is definitely true far far more time at home compared to Longhaul unless your a senior baron just doing LAX returns then maybe not. I’ve been on both sides Shorthaul is vastly superior especially if you have kids. On one 6 day A330 trip your time away from base exceeds a shorthaul pilots TAFB in a whole monthly roster if they do day trips pretty much.

#2 Yes you are right but you are cherry picking the absolute worst of the lot, how about 9 days work in 28 doing DRW / PER returns from east coast? I’m cherry picking the best but as you know the truth is in the middle. But I agree with you that the crew/aircraft changes atm are completely ridiculous through the death corner ( Anywhere south east of a line BNE-ADL)
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 08:35
  #1597 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 653
Received 57 Likes on 13 Posts
“death corner”

LOL
ruprecht is online now  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 08:48
  #1598 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 99 Likes on 38 Posts
Yes, it always seems to be a comparison of the worst of the worst shorthaul and the best of the best of long haul.
SandyPalms is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 09:10
  #1599 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,294
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
Lol and I’m serious MEL is a complete basket case these days and syd in general works better but can be a nightmare. I am including CBR and HBA in the death corner calculation, which is unjustified, but there’s so many morons on guard down there it makes it apolyctic, give me QLD and NT and WA and i’m happy.
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 10:07
  #1600 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AoA, my comments were regarding the surprising juniority of commands, I proffered some reasons why I believe this is the case. We can agree to disagree about the state and relative merits of shorthaul rostering, particularily the past 2 years, (and projected to be the same as far as the eye can see). Most FO's who gets a slot to LH expresses the same sentiment, "I'm never coming back to shorthaul for a command". Having said that, many have been on type for 7 to 10 years and are thoroughly fed up. Perhaps we only have a certain number of years of shorthaul in us all, particularly if dealing with "death corner"/ MEL all too often, and their Karma is all used up. That is why the slots have gone junior in my view.

Ultimately it is about each pilot judging what they want, and the judgement is in. What we think is irrelevant, they are voting with their bids, and many are not voting to take a 737 command.
FYSTI is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.