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Qantas Recruitment

Old 15th Jun 2018, 23:26
  #1621 (permalink)  
Keg

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All pilots joining the group are told it’s two years wait for mainline. No bias against QLink drivers there. Many Network and JQ drivers have been delayed many months before starting at mainline. No bias against QLink drivers there either.

I know some specifics of some individuals that missed out and having been part of the process at the time I know for a fact there was n bias. Needless to say no recruitment system is perfect and I’ve voiced some of my thoughts to the relevant people internally. However some ex cadets and other internals that mainline has accepted as S/Os have very quickly earned reputations that aren’t flattering for them. So let’s not pretend that being a QLink Driver makes you a successful mainline pilot either.

The FACTS are that QLink drivers are over represented in S/O entrant numbers in a rate that far exceeds their percentage of total applicants. So make all the accusations of bias you like. The numbers being employed prove you wrong.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 23:29
  #1622 (permalink)  
Keg

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PS. With the hours that many pilots join QLink with they’re highly unlikely to be competitive in mainline assessment anyway. You’re probably better off as a low time pilot getting into the group and then applying than being outside. Particularly when 3000+ hour regional jet F/Os and many RAAF QFIs are being told ‘not competitive’.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 00:16
  #1623 (permalink)  
 
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startno1 & davidclarke

When my online testing concluded, in golfing parlance I didn't even think I'd hit it past the ladies tee!
When I got the call up for the assessment centre I was as genuinely surprised as anyone....

The feedback we got later down the track, and not from any official source I might add, was that correct answers are rewarded with a more difficult next question and so on...

Until you get the no letter consider yourself still in the game!

p.s. I hope my gender specific golfing analogy hasn't offended anyone
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 02:08
  #1624 (permalink)  
 
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@OpenDescent I think the only minority group you offended were golfers and lets face it they don't count

Ladies, Gents, Transgender, Those of Ethnic Diversity, Religious Groups and Children, honestly I don't think there is any way that we can find rhyme or reason as to how they choose candidates. As someone who has a few thousand hours and over a thousand hours on the 737-800 with great Qantas references I still didn't make it to an interview. No hard feelings though, onwards and upwards to better things.

I think if anyone does eventually stumble onto the magic formula please share with the group, you will be praised as a God, unfortunately when that day comes I think we will also be seeing NOTAMS for "pigs flying on the approach"
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 03:02
  #1625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by startno1
Anyone in the last round of recruitment think they completely f’ed the online tests but ended up getting a interview?
I knew they were going to be hard but holy 🤬
Yes mate absolutely. That also goes for everyone I know who scored an interview. The testing was extremely difficult so don't stress. Hang in there!
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 03:19
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Sounds like a particular brand of tests. The questions get exponentially more dificult as you progress, and in some categories you may not finish all the questions. I believe its about how far up the steep curve you get, and accuracy. In my experience of other aptitide testing it is quite common to feel like you didn't do well, and the result is positively surprising :-)
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 03:23
  #1627 (permalink)  
 
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I'm bored...

Looks like I've triggered another Qantas pilot, LOL!

All pilots joining the group are told it’s two years wait for mainline. No bias against QLink drivers there.
You're not comparing the same apples as I am. You're saying that WITHIN THE GROUP, there isn't any bias against Qlink. That may be true, but that's NOT what I said.

Many Network and JQ drivers have been delayed many months before starting at mainline. No bias against QLink drivers there either.
Same argument. Within the group there may be no bias.

However some ex cadets and other internals that mainline has accepted as S/Os have very quickly earned reputations that aren’t flattering for them.
Not relevant to anything I've said.

So let’s not pretend that being a QLink Driver makes you a successful mainline pilot either.
GOLD! Virgin, Cathay Pacific, Emirates, and Dragonair all may beg to differ. The word on the street was, was that most of those airlines considered Qlink to be one of the best training schools around. But not good enough for Qantas mainline. You know what that makes you sound like? Starts with "S" and rhymes with.... skygod!

All your so-called "FACTS" prove is that you have one interpretation and I have another. And the "fact" that "Qlink drivers are over represented".. hang on, in your previous post it was "Qlink and other group pilots", now it's just Qlink pilots. Not being "rubbery" with our FACTS now, are we?
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 03:46
  #1628 (permalink)  
 
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As any Pprune discussion having anything to do with Qantas gets longer, the probability that someone will invoke the term “skygod” approaches 1.0. This is known as Skygodwin’s Law.

Not sure that Keg was the one who was triggered, to be honest.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 04:16
  #1629 (permalink)  
 
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Skyes,

There are brand new F/O’s at QLink who have only just been checked to line (so less than 6-9months in the company) who have interviews at QF next month.

Times have changed since you left.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 04:17
  #1630 (permalink)  
 
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Cheers for the comments, puts the mind at ease a little.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 08:17
  #1631 (permalink)  
Keg

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Wink

Goodness gracious Sykes. Get over yourself. Triggered? That’s what you call it when people who actually have good gen challenge your ill informed and inaccurate information? You crack me up! Thanks for the Skygod label too. That was particularly funny. The last refuge of those with NFI.

I’ve seen the numbers. I know that internal group pilots as a total (including QLink pilots) are over represented in the hiring stats. You keeping on banging that ‘bias’ drum won’t make it correct or accurate.

Not everyone who tells you’re wrong is the enemy. But by all means you do you and maintain that firm chip on the shoulder.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 09:15
  #1632 (permalink)  
Seagull201
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I've been following the posts all day and here are a few points.

1. C.V presentation: isn't the problem with getting a job with QF mainline.

2. Psychometric testing: It appears QF have over done it, with the psychometric testing on this occasion.
The company should have stated in the job requirements, that an Engineering University Degree was needed.

3: Sykes: Everything you written is correct.
What you have forgotten, is, when a person gets into Qlink (Dash 8), then "QF Mainline", wants them to stay there, not 2 years, but for life!

4. Keg: You appear to be in QF management. I'm sure you are.
**The problem with Qlink/internal applicants is, all pilots should have a seniority number on commencement of employment!
**If Qlink pilots can wear a QF uniform and accept a lower pay scale than "mainline", then they should at least have a QF seniority number,
whilst flying the Dash 8 or B717.
**If Qlink pilots had a seniority number, then, there "wouldn't" be this so called "mainline recruitment", and staff (pilots) could bid for future positions,
within the QF group.

Keg, there shouldn't be this division of QF mainline and Qlink , every pilot should have seniority number, whether they're an F/O on the Dash8
or an A380 Captain, every pilot should work and advance within the QF group.(This has to change, if there's a will for the change).

5. Second Officers: Look, QF should have a programme, where S/O's are upgrade to "trainee first officer status", after 3 years.
Meaning, they fly at least 1 leg a month and participate in at least 1 take off and landing a month.
It's more value to the person and company, instead of a person sitting in the seat behind, for a decade and struggling with promotional upgrades to F/O roles.

6. Something has to eventually give, where "mainline and qlink pilots", are under a single seniority list, and under a "single QF Group banner".
 
Old 16th Jun 2018, 10:00
  #1633 (permalink)  
 
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Seagull,
4: Keg is not management
5: On long haul types there is not enough landings for captains, first officers and second officers to stay current.
6: Good luck with arguing that with management, we have been trying for years.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 11:01
  #1634 (permalink)  
Keg

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Exclamation

Originally Posted by Seagull201
4. Keg: You appear to be in QF management. I'm sure you are.
lol. Mate, you’re obviously new to PPRUNE! My real identity is pretty well known. Not management. Just a pilot. I’ve dabbled in a few things over the years. Management (at least in Qantas) isn’t yet one of them.

Originally Posted by Seagull201
**The problem with Qlink/internal applicants is, all pilots should have a seniority number on commencement of employment!
i dont expect you to search through 5000 posts over nearly 20 years but agreed. Not sure how old you are but if you’re younger than 30 a bunch of us in mainline have been pushing this barrow since you were in primary school. It’s not without nuance though. More on that shortly.

Originally Posted by Seagull201
**If Qlink pilots can wear a QF uniform and accept a lower pay scale than "mainline", then they should at least have a QF seniority number,
whilst flying the Dash 8 or B717.
Interestingly it hasn’t always been the same uniform. I think it was probably 2010 or thereabouts when the QF board recognised the presence, or cache that came with the ‘Qantas pilot’ uniform. Suddenly it was expanded far and wide. Beyond that I’m not sure of the relevance of the unfiform to the point you’re making. Do you think because you wear the same uniform you’ve already demonstrated everything you need to be a mainline pilot and should naturally progress? Now I’m already on record that I believe in group seniority but that doesn’t give you carte Blanche to walk into mainline without demonstrating you’re suitable! No doubt most regional pilots are but it’s clear from this thread that some most definitely aren’t. Interestingly too there are multiple accounts of former regional pilots struggling with adjusting to losing a couple of stripes and the new role. That’s cool. I get it. Been there myself losing a stripe. I’m trying to work out why though those stories are almost all about Dash 8 pilots. Rarely about the ex JQ F/Os, or the ex Network, etc. Rarely about externals either.

The unform is a clown costume designed to generate social media buzz. You’re re deluding yourself if you think it carries any more weight than that. What does carries weight (apart from my stomach area) is doing the job.

Originally Posted by Seagull201
5. Second Officers: Look, QF should have a programme, where S/O's are upgrade to "trainee first officer status", after 3 years. Meaning, they fly at least 1 leg a month and participate in at least 1 take off and landing a month.
OK. Now I need to ask. How old are you and how long have you been in ‘the group’? You’ve clearly got no idea about mainline operations. Tankengine has kindly addressed this issue but when you’re only getting two landings a month- I did 11 in 6 months as an A380 F/O- there’s barely enough to share around to maintain competence let alone taking a low time S/O and expecting them to improve.

Originally Posted by Seagull201
6. Something has to eventually give, where "mainline and qlink pilots", are under a single seniority list, and under a "single QF Group banner".
As previously stated I’m a fan of a group list but there is an undercurrent of entitlement in your entire post Seagull that is quite troubling. It’s the same attitude that I’ve alluded to earlier in my post and what some Dash 8 crew have struggled with in mainline. Even with a group list I wouldn’t expect to be automatically granted a Dash 8 Command (say) when I turn 65. After so many years in mainline I may not be suitable for what is a somewhat different role. I’d expect to have to jump through a few hoops first- and I don’t just mean line training. Or is QLink so desperate that two arms, two legs, a pilot’s license and a pulse gets you a gig? Maybe that explains the attitudes.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 11:13
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Keg in Management...yeah...no.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 14:38
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Don’t shoot the messenger...

You might agree with Keg or not but he’s the only one providing accurate information if you read this thread from beginning to now...
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Old 17th Jun 2018, 01:49
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When Qlink pilots applied to airlines like Cathay and Emirates the acceptance rate was well over 95%. Only TWO Qlink pilots were unsuccessful (one at each). Compared with Qantas, where only 51% of the Qlink pilots were successful.
Wow, no wonder you feel hard done by when you set your expectations this high. I’d have thought a 51% success rate was pretty good. Expecting that nearly every single applicant (95%) should be successful because they worked at QLink is a bit delusional I’m afraid. What about RAAF applicants? What about applicants from JQ, VA, EK, CX, etc.?

When there are over a thousand applicants for less than 200 jobs in a year, a lot of high quality pilots will get rejected sadly. It is not to say that they are not good enough to do the job but simply that there are more good candidates than jobs available.

Given there was no recruitment for around 8 years there is sure to be a backlog of high quality candidates. This will lessen in time and the good news is that Qantas recruitment will continue for a good few years yet so people who have been knocked back today may get a different response a year or two down the track (if they are still interested that is).
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Old 17th Jun 2018, 02:14
  #1638 (permalink)  
 
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At the end of the day someone at Qlink has a better chance of getting into mainline than from outside the company - just how it should be. Also what about internals to Jetstar for Qlink is there any numbers here?
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Old 17th Jun 2018, 02:27
  #1639 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry, that's complete and utter crap. QLink pilots (and other internal candidates) are being recruited into mainline in numbers that far exceed their ratio of total applicants. IE if internals make up 20% of total applicants they're making up 40-50% of S/Os starting at Qantas.
The problem with statistics, Keg, is that 99% of the population can be conned into believing anything because they don’t have the brain space to see past bull**** numbers.

The statistics above which were fed to you might be true, but that it proves there is no embargo - that’s the utter crap you talk of.

QF minimums are terribly low compared to what you generally need to make you competitive. What that means, is that every joe blow guy instructing at the local aero club with 1000 C172 hours can apply.

But nearly all of these get cut because they aren’t competitive - so your 20% statistic might technically be correct, but it doesn’t mean that QLink applicants are over represented. You need to compare QLink applicants to applicants with similar experience.

Two other things I wish to take you to task on:
1. I have many mates who have been through the QLink process over the years. None of them were told “minimum 2 year wait for another group airline.”
2. Hold file places mean jack ****. It’s all well and good until you sit on it for three years and then they stop hiring.

If you want to spruke statistics, give us these numbers:
percentage of Rex guys who have ACTUALLY STARTED/rex guys who applied, compared to:
percentage of QLink guys who have ACTUALLY STARTED/QLink guys who applied.

That’s called comparing apples with apples.

And while were on it, I know of several Cobham guys who have been “on hold” with Jetstar for 12+ months. Meanwhile, pilots applying from non QF group regionals are getting start dates inside 2 months of applying and jumping guys with significant jet command.

I have always respected your PPrune contributions Keg - since day 1. But please think a bit more carefully about the statistics you spew out for them. Either that, or I need to increase my kool-aid intake.
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Old 17th Jun 2018, 03:35
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G'day External QF Hopefuls,

I've been a long-time lurker on here but did the QF psychometric testing last weekend which gave me inspiration for this username. I felt like a muppet and guessed my way through many of the questions, particularly the logic ones! I have low expectations but everyone I've spoken to said they found them tricky. I'm a little worried I'll start convulsing if I come across a road sign with randomly pointing arrows...

Without wanting to sound presumptuous, I have a question for previously successful applicants - if you get an invite to the assessment day, how much notice do they give you? and do they give you a range of dates for you to select from or just one?

Thanks in advance!

BLTG

Last edited by betterluckythangood; 17th Jun 2018 at 11:22.
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