Qantas Recruitment

[engine out]

From the EBA. First year FO 737 is $145238.32 for 696 hours, or $208.67 per hour with min guarantee of 53.24 hours per 28 day bid period. Add 20 hours for 4 sims and EP each year adds another $4173.40. If managed to do 900 hours it would be around $187803 plus DTA (taxed on day trips and untaxed on overnights off memory). To earn around $250000 on year 1 you would need to be way from home for around 5000hrs, or at work for 4 hours for every hour you flew. These are just beer coaster maths and I’m sure there are those who will work it differently and tell me I’m wrong.

[romeocharlie]

Originally Posted by engine out

From the EBA. First year FO 737 is $145238.32 for 696 hours, or $208.67 per hour with min guarantee of 53.24 hours per 28 day bid period. Add 20 hours for 4 sims and EP each year adds another $4173.40. If managed to do 900 hours it would be around $187803 plus DTA (taxed on day trips and untaxed on overnights off memory). To earn around $250000 on year 1 you would need to be way from home for around 5000hrs, or at work for 4 hours for every hour you flew. These are just beer coaster maths and I’m sure there are those who will work it differently and tell me I’m wrong.

The hourly rate is only calculated for additional hours you do above 53.5 per 28 days. Bit of beer coaster maths... Let's say you do 85.5 hours (credit) per 28 (which isn't unachievable - sometimes you get 4hrs for doing a Sydney return from Melbourne or Brisbane). That's an extra 30 hours credit per 28 on top of that base salary. 30*$208.67 = $6260.10 * 12 (because even on leave you get average credit overtime that you do). = $75,121.20 + base salary of $145238.32 = 220,359.52 + all the other sim stuff etc. You're good for about $225 year one if you work hard. Yes there are people who've gotten close to $300k, but it's rare. Also, I didn't account for the SH bonus which is calculated on a bunch of stuff including management performance percentage and your yearly credit hours.

[Makiko]

Swept Wing closer to the mark, but there just isn't a "no start" rule for 18 months, the objective is that all commence (internals/externals) within 2 years of completing selection

I personally know a number of JQ who commenced with ML within 12 months

According to people there after 22 process, JQ queued by seniority, other group airlines by merit

All commenced within 2 years of selection (just same as externals) might be tad longer for Qlink but that is likely a function of how many are actually going to ML . 150 out of 450 (maybe 170), 33% of the pilot group. Wonder how many Qlink applied ? , looks like a pretty good conversion rate compared to external apps

[Lapon]

Originally Posted by romeocharlie

The hourly rate is only calculated for additional hours you do above 53.5 per 28 days. Bit of beer coaster maths... Let's say you do 85.5 hours (credit) per 28

I Dont want to sound rude, but who in thier right mind would opt for 85.5 hours per 28 days on a short haul aircraft?

Don't we ​​​​​to all want to only fly the bare minimum... personally thats about 20-30 hrs max a month, but noway in hell 80+

Is the $250k, $300k, or $350k B737 FO salary achieveable doing only 20-30 hrs flying a month?

I wouldn't have thought so, But using an 80hrs/28 days sked to inflate a paycheck is akin to saying pay in Australia is ****e in $AU terms vs what the E3 guys earn - except in the latter case we agree thats not an apples-apples comparison.

[Icarus2001]

For SH to simply say it’s $X per hour for the min guarantee is short changing what every Pilot actually sees in the bank.

You will not be seeing Superannuation in your bank and will not be able to access it until >60, so no it should not be included. Allowances are mostly spent anyway, unless you want to eat two minute noodles in your room and drink tap water.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

You will not be seeing Superannuation in your bank and will not be able to access it until >60, so no it should not be included. Allowances are mostly spent anyway, unless you want to eat two minute noodles in your room and drink tap water.

Agreed - a fairer comparison would be “average hours” over the pay period multiplied by the rate. More indicative of what the average Jane would be paid.. Minimim rates have their place, but isn’t useful if no one does minimum hours.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by Lapon

I Dont want to sound rude, but who in thier right mind would opt for 85.5 hours per 28 days on a short haul aircraft?

Don't we ​​​​​to all want to only fly the bare minimum... personally thats about 20-30 hrs max a month, but noway in hell 80+

Is the $250k, $300k, or $350k B737 FO salary achieveable doing only 20-30 hrs flying a month?

I wouldn't have thought so, But using an 80hrs/28 days sked to inflate a paycheck is akin to saying pay in Australia is ****e in $AU terms vs what the E3 guys earn - except in the latter case we agree thats not an apples-apples comparison.

Totally agree - SH hours in the 65-75 hour range seem to be most popular. Good balance between days worked and pay.

By that metric the $300K/350K+ figures are more akin to the Capt rate.

[Poto]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

You will not be seeing Superannuation in your bank and will not be able to access it until >60, so no it should not be included. Allowances are mostly spent anyway, unless you want to eat two minute noodles in your room and drink tap water.

super is calculated differently on all Pilot agreements in QF group. It should most definitely be included in any salary comparison. The SH Bonus is another consideration.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist

Totally agree - SH hours in the 65-75 hour range seem to be most popular. Good balance between days worked and pay.

By that metric the $300K/350K+ figures are more akin to the Capt rate.

It still is the highest paid narrowbody FO job in the country, and one of the highest in the world outside the US majors and contract jobs.

[Jack D. Ripper]

Originally Posted by dr dre

It still is the highest paid narrowbody FO job in the country, and one of the highest in the world outside the US majors and contract jobs.

Judging by the latest press you need to check your morals at the door working for this mob….. probably a good thing they pay well

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper

Judging by the latest press you need to check your morals at the door working for this mob….. probably a good thing they pay well

Thats a rather pathetic low blow.

The vast, VAST majority of us find the actions of the higher ups reprehensible.

[Jester64]

Originally Posted by dr dre

It still is the highest paid narrowbody FO job in the country, and one of the highest in the world outside the US majors and contract jobs.

Probably highest paid gross, but who cares about gross figures when you gotta give 30% back to the government.

I think you may have forgotten about the ME3 here….a NB FO (first year) on 65 hours would clear the equivalent of around $13,000 AUD per month. Then they are gonna pay you another $5,500 to spend as little or as much as you want on accomodation (granted the families will spend the lot but a single guy is gonna cash in here). That’s a monthly net salary of $18,500 just there. And before someone chimes in saying I shouldn’t include the housing allowance, why not? Does QF pay your rent or mortgage or does it come out of your monthly pay-check?

[Jack D. Ripper]

Originally Posted by ExtraShot

Thats a rather pathetic low blow.

The vast, VAST majority of us find the actions of the higher ups reprehensible.

I’ve heard that for many, many years now, yet people apply and people stay.

Eventually it says something about you.

Besides, The secret findings of the EB review suggest the cultural issues go far deeper than the boardroom.

My point is that at least the $$ can assuage any feelings of guilt by association.

[Beer Baron]

Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper

I’ve heard that for many, many years now, yet people apply and people stay.

Eventually it says something about you.

What total garbage.
If you’re an airline pilot in Australia, you’ve got to choose between Bain & Co, Lim Kim Hai or Joyce. So tell me, where do the truly virtuous pilots work??

[slice]

Bonza‼️🤪

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper

I’ve heard that for many, many years now, yet people apply and people stay.

Eventually it says something about you.

Presumably your moral judgement also extends to anyone who works for banks, telcos, the media, advertisers, and our various tiers of government? (Just for starters)

[Lapon]

Originally Posted by dr dre

It still is the highest paid narrowbody FO job in the country, and one of the highest in the world outside the US majors and contract jobs.

I thought VA were paid more than QF on the B737? My awareness of that was pre Bain I admit.

Outside of the US and contracting where do substantial numbers of Australian NB pilots go anyway?
I dont work for QF, but I have no doubt that reasonable coin can be earned for anyone wanting to be flogged 60-80hrs a month, but the same can be said for Alliance and it seems air NZ too.

My only gripe is people claiming to be paid $250k-$350k+ without disclaiming they have to fly a crap load over min hours to achieve that, and one fleet/rank/company in particular seem to be notorious for that.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper

My point is that at least the $$ can assuage any feelings of guilt by association.

Absolutely no guilt here - what the C suite does is their business. I just fly the jets and smile wider every fortnight.

[C441]

Originally Posted by Jack D. Ripper

I’ve heard that for many, many years now, yet people apply and people stay.
Eventually it says something about you.
Besides, The secret findings of the EB review suggest the cultural issues go far deeper than the boardroom.
My point is that at least the $$ can assuage any feelings of guilt by association.

As Qatar Airways is a fully funded arm of the Qatari government, I guess all those expats working for Qatar are supportive of the human rights abuses in that country too.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Lapon

I thought VA were paid more than QF on the B737? My awareness of that was pre Bain I admit.

I believe pre-Bain VA had a higher min guarantee but with QF you could earn more if you worked up to max hours.

Now QF comes out ahead on both fronts.

Originally Posted by C441

As Qatar Airways is a fully funded arm of the Qatari government, I guess all those expats working for Qatar are supportive of the human rights abuses in that country too.

If you traced the ethical decisions of businesses and governments all the way to the top you won’t find many employers who can claim have a totally clean record.

Bain Capital for instance has a notorious record for taking over businesses, sacking workers, destroying standards and then escaping with a hefty payout just prior to that business going bankrupt.

It’s always hilarious to see John Sharp crying about favouritism for Qantas given his former LNP buddies provided the start up financing for his jet operation.

Ans so and and so forth. If you want to find a completely ethical employer you are going to be searching for a long long time…..