Jetstar Aus/NZ Positions
It is OUR responsibility as currently employed members of virgin/ Jetstar/ Network/ NJS etc to improve the conditions for those that come after us. It is not the responsibility of young pilots to languish in GA longer so my terms and conditions at the airlines improve. ( I'm not even sure how that works but okay.....)
I've said it before, unity is key, but the airlines are preventing unity in a number of ways. The most prevalent method is the drive of the new pilot to progress. Set the conditions below what is comfortable so most of the workforce does not want to stay, have the tap set so your training department can handle the flow. This then means no majority of pilots can form a group that can push for better. If you have a constant supply of new hires that are escaping the rung below you can never achieve the critical mass needed to get more than what is cpi or less improvements to keep the tap setting in place. That setting is, we're better than the lower guys, but don't think we're the best, stay a few years and move on to the next and so on. The other method is what QF is master of, the divide and conquer, never letting what is a large critical mass feel secure in their own jobs. Have many sub companies acting like hungry wolves taking on the masses of lower paid pilots to keep the QF mainline pilots in their corner.
Why are pilots starving in GA?
No it's those that are willing to accept the conditions in the first place. The industry has created stepping stones to the top. You don't accept the mid stream stones and it falls apart
For your argument to really work people need to stop learning to fly altogether until pay rates go up. In reality if that occurs most businesses will shut down or import foreign labour. It will also bankrupt most flying schools.
As you say pay rates are determined by the scarcity of those willing to do the work. However you really can't control that as an industry because the government and the large airlines have to much clout in the labour market and will just come to some mutually beneficial arrangement.
So what are you suggesting? That someone spend 150K on a license then demand $100 000 a year for a Grade 3 Instructor job or to fly scenics around the Bungles or Ayers Rock?
Who comes to fill these voids will obviously make an offer to crew flights. What you accept to fly that flight is what you are worth. I've no doubt that a good instructor is worth at least double the award figure, the award being barely above what a supermarket check out earns, do you seriously think that's an appropriate wage for a skilled pilot?
What has been set up in the industry is that nobody cares for skill, because they know you have to pay for it. So you could be an ace instructor and save a student 50 hours of training over a CPL course and guess what, that's not great because that's 50 hours of revenue lost. But the GA boss doesn't value the other things that make a good instructor, like the interpersonal skills and marketing skills that bring students to that school, which you can than build on to increase clientele through reputation. Students move on with minimum hours but are also highly trained bright pilots, means they recommend the school to others and so on.
To a cadet program on the other hand you (and your colleagues) could be saving the company 50 hours per student over 300 students a year. At $300 per hour that's a lot of savings, around $4.5 million in savings over a year for that college. Even if only a quarter of that went back to raising salaries you could increase pay at least $50k. Here's the answer you will get, "We can't quantify skill, so it's easier to treat everyone at the lowest common denominator and accept the flow through". So there's the second point, on top of paying for skill somebody has to go out and locate the skill, scout it, make sure your credentials are sound. GA operators just don't want to bother with selective hiring.
The charter world is the same, not everybody is mechanically savvy, and just following the POH precisely is not the most economic way to operate an aircraft. A skilled pilot can reduce operating costs. A skilled charter pilot also has to swoon the passengers and clients so that they feel like they are being treated at the level they are paying for. Lose a contract because a few pilots are shaky with no reasonable skills on how to treat people and your revenue collapses.
All these jobs deserve over $100k pay if done the way they should. Half the reason GA is failing is that the wrong pilots are doing the wrong jobs, the other half is management that have no clue how to run a business. So in general its just a big glut of the wrong people all over the show, doing it for all the wrong reasons. CASA really only steps into the equation when you start making mistakes or have issues, which is often given the people involved.
What you need is to educate the new pilot that wants to spend $150k to become their dream is make sure they understand the reality of what they will be doing and have clear guidance on the path to follow.
For your argument to really work people need to stop learning to fly altogether until pay rates go up. In reality if that occurs most businesses will shut down or import foreign labour. It will also bankrupt most flying schools.
As you say pay rates are determined by the scarcity of those willing to do the work. However you really can't control that as an industry because the government and the large airlines have to much clout in the labour market and will just come to some mutually beneficial arrangement.
The last point I agree on, what will happen if supply truly dries up is the airlines start proper cadetships, which IMO will drop pay conditions in the airlines over time. Ailrines will only pay enough to keep the young and impressionable thinking they can make a living. GA will need to snipe pilots back or start up some for of similar. But most of all GA type work will be paid more and be more demanding on those who do it.
Last edited by 43Inches; 10th Oct 2022 at 06:47.
Your ideas are dreamy 43, but I have to agree with others. Why should they starve their families just to try this dreamy idea of yours that will never happen?
They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.
They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.
Your ideas are dreamy 43, but I have to agree with others. Why should they starve their families just to try this dreamy idea of yours that will never happen?
They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.
They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.
I'm waiting for the adds on tv from the Salvos showing starving pilots families. I'm sure many will be willing to donate. Its like pilotage is the last job in Australia and theres nothing else these poor souls can do, bless...
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Is anyone aware that if due to whatever circumstances you say no too an offer after being placed on a hold file, if you get marked on future applications whether it’s with JQ itself or the group?
It can be seen as to what you applied for and the outcome yes, but unlikely to influence outcome for next job in group. They (hr) may ask in interview why you rejected offer. Its up to you to answer or not. Ppl change their minds frequently. Personal, medical, other stressies, better job offers etc.
What do you mean is it a small base? 100+ pilots considered a large base or the network they fly considered a large base?
If you get the gig and you want CNS, you most likely will get it off the bat if not you won’t be waiting long for it.
If you get the gig and you want CNS, you most likely will get it off the bat if not you won’t be waiting long for it.