Jetstar Aus/NZ Positions

[josephfeatherweight]

Originally Posted by cLeArIcE

It is OUR responsibility as currently employed members of virgin/ Jetstar/ Network/ NJS etc to improve the conditions for those that come after us. It is not the responsibility of young pilots to languish in GA longer so my terms and conditions at the airlines improve. ( I'm not even sure how that works but okay.....)

Very, very well said - can be extended to the aviation industry outside of the airlines, also.

[43Inches]

I've said it before, unity is key, but the airlines are preventing unity in a number of ways. The most prevalent method is the drive of the new pilot to progress. Set the conditions below what is comfortable so most of the workforce does not want to stay, have the tap set so your training department can handle the flow. This then means no majority of pilots can form a group that can push for better. If you have a constant supply of new hires that are escaping the rung below you can never achieve the critical mass needed to get more than what is cpi or less improvements to keep the tap setting in place. That setting is, we're better than the lower guys, but don't think we're the best, stay a few years and move on to the next and so on. The other method is what QF is master of, the divide and conquer, never letting what is a large critical mass feel secure in their own jobs. Have many sub companies acting like hungry wolves taking on the masses of lower paid pilots to keep the QF mainline pilots in their corner.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Why are pilots starving in GA?

Because Australia is an over regulated backwater that stymies aviation business development with a jungle of red tape BS and safety legislation that is the antithesis of the promotion of flying as a sport, recreational activity or profitable business. Or so I've been told.

[neville_nobody]

No it's those that are willing to accept the conditions in the first place. The industry has created stepping stones to the top. You don't accept the mid stream stones and it falls apart

So what are you suggesting? That someone spend 150K on a license then demand $100 000 a year for a Grade 3 Instructor job or to fly scenics around the Bungles or Ayers Rock?

For your argument to really work people need to stop learning to fly altogether until pay rates go up. In reality if that occurs most businesses will shut down or import foreign labour. It will also bankrupt most flying schools.

As you say pay rates are determined by the scarcity of those willing to do the work. However you really can't control that as an industry because the government and the large airlines have to much clout in the labour market and will just come to some mutually beneficial arrangement.

[43Inches]

So what are you suggesting? That someone spend 150K on a license then demand $100 000 a year for a Grade 3 Instructor job or to fly scenics around the Bungles or Ayers Rock?

What is happening in GA is that companies that can't afford to pay staff these amounts are going out of business, most won't even try to retain staff if they can't make a profit above the wages. I've seen several GA companies where the management, who I knew well, would never pay more than they have to, so pack up and close down when it gets hard. Whats left is critical services like ambulance, light freight, large training facilities and the city based aeroclubs. Asia shows that these companies will have to pay more for pilots eventually as the airlines will just train their own, with barely any GA feed in.

Who comes to fill these voids will obviously make an offer to crew flights. What you accept to fly that flight is what you are worth. I've no doubt that a good instructor is worth at least double the award figure, the award being barely above what a supermarket check out earns, do you seriously think that's an appropriate wage for a skilled pilot?

What has been set up in the industry is that nobody cares for skill, because they know you have to pay for it. So you could be an ace instructor and save a student 50 hours of training over a CPL course and guess what, that's not great because that's 50 hours of revenue lost. But the GA boss doesn't value the other things that make a good instructor, like the interpersonal skills and marketing skills that bring students to that school, which you can than build on to increase clientele through reputation. Students move on with minimum hours but are also highly trained bright pilots, means they recommend the school to others and so on.

To a cadet program on the other hand you (and your colleagues) could be saving the company 50 hours per student over 300 students a year. At $300 per hour that's a lot of savings, around $4.5 million in savings over a year for that college. Even if only a quarter of that went back to raising salaries you could increase pay at least $50k. Here's the answer you will get, "We can't quantify skill, so it's easier to treat everyone at the lowest common denominator and accept the flow through". So there's the second point, on top of paying for skill somebody has to go out and locate the skill, scout it, make sure your credentials are sound. GA operators just don't want to bother with selective hiring.

The charter world is the same, not everybody is mechanically savvy, and just following the POH precisely is not the most economic way to operate an aircraft. A skilled pilot can reduce operating costs. A skilled charter pilot also has to swoon the passengers and clients so that they feel like they are being treated at the level they are paying for. Lose a contract because a few pilots are shaky with no reasonable skills on how to treat people and your revenue collapses.

All these jobs deserve over $100k pay if done the way they should. Half the reason GA is failing is that the wrong pilots are doing the wrong jobs, the other half is management that have no clue how to run a business. So in general its just a big glut of the wrong people all over the show, doing it for all the wrong reasons. CASA really only steps into the equation when you start making mistakes or have issues, which is often given the people involved.

What you need is to educate the new pilot that wants to spend $150k to become their dream is make sure they understand the reality of what they will be doing and have clear guidance on the path to follow.

For your argument to really work people need to stop learning to fly altogether until pay rates go up. In reality if that occurs most businesses will shut down or import foreign labour. It will also bankrupt most flying schools.

Most flying schools are already in a spiral downwards, you would only accelerate the process, look at all the schools that have shut doors in the last 30 years. Foreign pilots haven't worked well in the Australian system, our uncontrolled airspace and rules can really confound a lot of Europeans and North Americans especially with the wide open spaces and no radar and active control, beside who is going to come here to work on supermarket wages, you barely get any coming to work for the airlines, and with current world shortages its even less likely.

As you say pay rates are determined by the scarcity of those willing to do the work. However you really can't control that as an industry because the government and the large airlines have to much clout in the labour market and will just come to some mutually beneficial arrangement.

The maritime and many other industries do this in Australia. In the US the unions brought in scope clauses to prevent white-anting of conditions by using lower paid workforce to slowly take over sectors. There are a few methods, but it all requires unions and unity.

The last point I agree on, what will happen if supply truly dries up is the airlines start proper cadetships, which IMO will drop pay conditions in the airlines over time. Ailrines will only pay enough to keep the young and impressionable thinking they can make a living. GA will need to snipe pilots back or start up some for of similar. But most of all GA type work will be paid more and be more demanding on those who do it.

[morno]

Your ideas are dreamy 43, but I have to agree with others. Why should they starve their families just to try this dreamy idea of yours that will never happen?

They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by morno

Your ideas are dreamy 43, but I have to agree with others. Why should they starve their families just to try this dreamy idea of yours that will never happen?

They’re better off getting in and waiting for you to f4rk off with your boat that you’ve got (can’t be that bad of conditions) so they can take your position.

Hey Im not the one whinging about conditions, and Ill be offering that position soon enough. Its more for those outthere currently negotiating what look like pretty shite deals, esp at qf group. You're welcome for a drink or two aboard if you want, learn some French it will help with the locals...

I'm waiting for the adds on tv from the Salvos showing starving pilots families. I'm sure many will be willing to donate. Its like pilotage is the last job in Australia and theres nothing else these poor souls can do, bless...

[xaos03]

So is JQ going too see a 3% increase?

[LostontheLOC]

Probably not.

[cLeArIcE]

Originally Posted by xaos03

So is JQ going too see a 3% increase?

Going to take a hell of a lot more than 3%.

[xaos03]

Is anyone aware that if due to whatever circumstances you say no too an offer after being placed on a hold file, if you get marked on future applications whether it’s with JQ itself or the group?

[HappyBandit]

Originally Posted by xaos03

Is anyone aware that if due to whatever circumstances you say no too an offer after being placed on a hold file, if you get marked on future applications whether it’s with JQ itself or the group?

It can be seen as to what you applied for and the outcome yes, but unlikely to influence outcome for next job in group. They (hr) may ask in interview why you rejected offer. Its up to you to answer or not. Ppl change their minds frequently. Personal, medical, other stressies, better job offers etc.

[Updownside2side]

How often are ground schools running at the moment? Have they started allocating/giving people start dates for next year yet?

[arena1]

Does Jetstar still have a cairns base if so are there often spots needing to be filled up there ??

[LostontheLOC]

Originally Posted by arena1

Does Jetstar still have a cairns base if so are there often spots needing to be filled up there ??

They do, but highly unlikely to be filled with direct entry.. in saying that I think there was two guys who got it last intake..

[arena1]

Thanks for that is it a fairly small base.

[SHVC]

Originally Posted by arena1

Thanks for that is it a fairly small base.

What do you mean is it a small base? 100+ pilots considered a large base or the network they fly considered a large base?

If you get the gig and you want CNS, you most likely will get it off the bat if not you won’t be waiting long for it.

[arena1]

Thanks for the help yes I just mean is it a small base compared to like bris or syd and hard to get into.

again thanks for the info

cheers
arena1

[Hawaiian.party]

One course of four every 3 weeks for the foreseeable future. At this stage, the only base on offer is Sydney.

[PoppaJo]

Originally Posted by arena1

Thanks for the help yes I just mean is it a small base compared to like bris or syd and hard to get into.

again thanks for the info

cheers
arena1

Always a bit of movement in the smaller ports as commands generally open up in Melbourne or Sydney at many employers, so FO slots are generally not that difficult to get. I don’t think Sydney is easy to get because it’s big, it’s easy because nobody wants to work in the place. Mascot is the pits.