Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

[giveittheherbs]

Back on the E3 Visa appointment train, does anyone have recent experience attending an E3 interview in Sydney?

Personally, I don’t have a bachelors just an Advanced Diploma and 9yrs experience.

I’ve heard the Sydney consulate has been pretty cut and dry with the requirements in the past.

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers

[Australopithecus]

Originally Posted by ThisPilotWifeLife

Maybe they actually read the CBA? Personally I'm struggling to see how $95 an hour (or even $133 for a second year FO) is better than working for Network or Alliance. At only 64 hours guaranteed a month, and anything over that at the same crappy $95 an hour, maybe it's just me, my calculator might be broken.

Yup, its just you. Or maybe not just you. US pilot contracts do not operate the same way as Australian ones do. Nor is the cost of living the same. Its not all roses, but I think that $133/hr ($200 AUD) is an actual living wage. Does Network provide a middle class wage for 2nd year F/Os? For reference, I believe QF mainline F/Os are circa $200/hr 55hr min guarantee. No overtime. 20 years to command.

[abaderrr]

Originally Posted by ThisPilotWifeLife

Maybe they actually read the CBA? Personally I'm struggling to see how $95 an hour (or even $133 for a second year FO) is better than working for Network or Alliance. At only 64 hours guaranteed a month, and anything over that at the same crappy $95 an hour, maybe it's just me, my calculator might be broken.

Comparing Atlas to Network/Alliance is laughable. So yeah, it's just you.

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by Rogerwood

And their not ignoring anyone. If you really wanted the job you would get over to the east. If you want to spend every night at home well that’s your choice. Spirit put it out their, only a few took the bait. Typical WA mentality of you come to us.

I explained pretty clearly why that’s not a choice for many of them. Have you seen what a skippers pilot earns!? Atlas and Spirit etc should Just ignore what could be hundreds of potential applicants, whatever.

Full disclosure, I’m not interested, but I’d love to see them strip the local operators bare. Particularly the Qantas affiliated ones.

also, If anyone thinks the Network contract is better than that Atlas contract I just read through, well, I guess you’ll be a key target to be a long term Network pilot then.

[DropYourSocks]

Originally Posted by ExtraShot

I explained pretty clearly why that’s not a choice for many of them. Have you seen what a skippers pilot earns!? Atlas and Spirit etc should Just ignore what could be hundreds of potential applicants, whatever.

Full disclosure, I’m not interested, but I’d love to see them strip the local operators bare. Particularly the Qantas affiliated ones.

also, If anyone thinks the Network contract is better than that Atlas contract I just read through, well, I guess you’ll be a key target to be a long term Network pilot then.

So here's the thing though, you don't need to go to these roadshows to get the job. You apply, email a recruiter, and interview over Skype. Job done.

I'm happy these roadshows are happening, and for those that go I suspect they're doing interviews and offering CJOs on the spot, but that's not like it really precludes anyone else from getting a CJO the normal way. At these roadshows, you will also get the company sales pitch, and as someone above said, it's not all roses. But it is a damn sight better than local contracts.

Right now in the US, it has never been easier to get whatever job it is you're pursuing. There's none of the rigmarole of home. And when your seniority comes up for a command, it's yours. There's no "command assessments", or someone junior to you brown nosing their way up ahead of you. There's no being stuck on one type while junior folks go to another type. You can go from FO on one type to Captain on another type, with no moon landings necessary.

[ThisPilotWifeLife]

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

Yup, its just you. Or maybe not just you. US pilot contracts do not operate the same way as Australian ones do. Nor is the cost of living the same. Its not all roses, but I think that $133/hr ($200 AUD) is an actual living wage. Does Network provide a middle class wage for 2nd year F/Os? For reference, I believe QF mainline F/Os are circa $200/hr 55hr min guarantee. No overtime. 20 years to command.

You're right US contracts don't operate the same way Australian ones do. It's a completely different language. Rostering at Atlas works on seniority and its not a rotating wheel like it is here. I spoke to 4th year FOs who are still not getting anything they bid for. Open time and vx is on a bidding system and is also all based on seniority. I've also spoken with captains who didn't take their command until 6 years after it was offered to them so their seniority was high enough that they didn't have to take a pay cut. They made more as a senior FO with roster seniority than a first year captain.

The shiny brochure they are showing everyone is just complete BS, the only numbers you can believe on that brochure are the lowest ones. A 3-4th year FO on the 747 can expect to make 133K, a first year is looking around 90K to 100K. Not sure if that is enough to move across the world for. I know a 9th year Captain on the 767 who made 225K last financial year and that was a good year for him. The 747 captains are sitting around 250K.

As for article 33 (the 175% of hourly rate - covid gravy train money) it's now only applicable for India, China and one other country (forget which one) and you have to have enough seniority to bid to get those lines. You could always pray for another global pandemic of course.

Granted Alliance has a better EBA than Network, overtime for Alliance kicks in at 55 hours every 28 day roster period and CPI this year is going to be a decent hike for them, plus there's the tax break coming this year, all of a sudden Alliance doesn't sound so bad. Maybe Atlas is a realistic option for a single Network/Bravo FO.

E3 visa's need to be renewed every two years, you can bet Aussies will be the first on the chopping block when the time comes, then you're stuck with the fun of trying to claw your way back in Australia.

Obviously its better than being unemployed but there is a reason this company was in arbitration for 5 years. Their conditions suck. Atlas is basically the Network/Alliance of the US, sometimes its better the devil you know.

But maybe its just me - and the pilots who actually work for Atlas, and their wives, who would really like to know where all the money is that Atlas putting in their shiny recruitment brochure.

[ExtraShot]

Originally Posted by DropYourSocks

So here's the thing though, you don't need to go to these roadshows to get the job. You apply, email a recruiter, and interview over Skype. Job done.

I'm happy these roadshows are happening, and for those that go I suspect they're doing interviews and offering CJOs on the spot, but that's not like it really precludes anyone else from getting a CJO the normal way. At these roadshows, you will also get the company sales pitch, and as someone above said, it's not all roses. But it is a damn sight better than local contracts.

Right now in the US, it has never been easier to get whatever job it is you're pursuing. There's none of the rigmarole of home. And when your seniority comes up for a command, it's yours. There's no "command assessments", or someone junior to you brown nosing their way up ahead of you. There's no being stuck on one type while junior folks go to another type. You can go from FO on one type to Captain on another type, with no moon landings necessary.

Right, Understood. Ahh, to be 20 years younger… sounds like some great opportunities.

[Likeasomebody]

Any aussies out there wanna swap passports for a fellow kiwi.

I'll head to the US for ya 😂

[Al E. Vator]

The US is booming, desperate for pilots and will be for years.
They are practical when it comes to aviation (unlike the so many examples of ridiculous behavior by senior ‘big fish in small pond’ management pilots in Australia who need ego building by belittling colleagues or potential applicants).
if it suits, go to the US and grasp the opportunity with full gusto.
It is a supply and demand driven economy and there are insufficient pilots, so conditions can only continue to rapidly and significantly get better and better.
Ignore any naysayers, do it, have a great experience, save some cash, invest sensibly, come back here later, retire early or do something else you love and pat yourself on the back for getting out of your comfort zone.

[Buttscratcher]

.....and eventually having to sell your ass in Central Park to make rent.
Butt, at least you're out of your 'Comfort Zone"

[havoste]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

.....and eventually having to sell your ass in Central Park to make rent.
Butt, at least you're out of your 'Comfort Zone"

It's close, but I'd rather sell my ass in Central Park than go through Australian HR and subsequent hold file.

[Servo]

I appreciate everyone's circumstances are unique, but wanted to get some thoughts. I expect the answers will differ remarkably.

I am mid 40's, kids have moved out. Still have a mortgage and still married. Been with current company 15 years. Same aircraft type the whole time.

Thinking that with the current situation in USA (I am non resident), it will never be a better chance to fly something bigger, new airspace, procedures and see the world.

Obviously pay will be markedly different to what I am earning as a narrow body captain. Just not feeling the vibe with pax based flying in Australia any more or having junior crew bypass for positions or types in the past.

Was thinking Atlas or National. Crazy or throw caution to the wind and see where it takes me for the rest of my available age "restricted" career?

Seeing a few colleagues taking the opportunity, only very recently with no actual rosters or flying commenced yet, whilst they do their induction and training.

My mind and eagerness for something different says YES, but recent posts here say NO.

Thoughts and criticism welcomed.

Cheers

[havick]

Originally Posted by Servo

I appreciate everyone's circumstances are unique, but wanted to get some thoughts. I expect the answers will differ remarkably.

I am mid 40's, kids have moved out. Still have a mortgage and still married. Been with current company 15 years. Same aircraft type the whole time.

Thinking that with the current situation in USA (I am non resident), it will never be a better chance to fly something bigger, new airspace, procedures and see the world.

Obviously pay will be markedly different to what I am earning as a narrow body captain. Just not feeling the vibe with pax based flying in Australia any more or having junior crew bypass for positions or types in the past.

Was thinking Atlas or National. Crazy or throw caution to the wind and see where it takes me for the rest of my available age "restricted" career?

Seeing a few colleagues taking the opportunity, only very recently with no actual rosters or flying commenced yet, whilst they do their induction and training.

My mind and eagerness for something different says YES, but recent posts here say NO.

Thoughts and criticism welcomed.

Cheers

How many of the people here saying NO, have actual experience over here in the US? My guess is a handful or none.

[Rogerwood]

Originally Posted by havick

How many of the people here saying NO, have actual experience over here in the US? My guess is a handful or none.

I bet none. Im 50, never flown a jet. Always wanted to. Tick the box, have fun, you only live once. You can afford it if you want it

[Buttscratcher]

I think the folks saying 'no' are pilots that have been there, done that, and since returning to Oz, figure that it's better not to put it all at risk
The 'yes' people believe the hype, and trust that no one will bone them.
Sure, it is an adventure, but right now, how did that work out for everybody?
The Expats are always the first to be let go, and what kind of union protection are provided for you?
Look, sure, do it, but remember you are basically on your own.

[umop apisdn]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

I think the folks saying 'no' are pilots that have been there, done that, and since returning to Oz, figure that it's better not to put it all at risk
The 'yes' people believe the hype, and trust that no one will bone them.
Sure, it is an adventure, but right now, how did that work out for everybody?
The Expats are always the first to be let go, and what kind of union protection are provided for you?
Look, sure, do it, but remember you are basically on your own.

So far it's worked out pretty well for everyone, unless you do something to personally get yourself fired, or had the unfortunate experience of working for a now non-existent airline.

Skywest tried unsuccessfully to get rid of all of their E3s. They don't even have a proper union.

Any Aussie paying dues to an actual union are pretty safe from being furloughed out of seniority order IMO. I don't think it's ever happened. We are afforded exactly the same rights as locals, which is also a requirement of the E3 and notably different from any other overseas job, where they can pull the contracts at any moment.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

If I was in my 20's again, I would be on the first plane out of here, but I'd be under no illusion that I was somehow protected there. If the recession comes, and things slow down, E3 visa holders will be the first to go. It will have nothing to so with seniority, you will just become ineligible to work in the US. Unless you find "the one" and she happens to be American.

Have a great time, but don't burn your bridges. This too will pass.

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by umop apisdn

Skywest tried unsuccessfully to get rid of all of their E3s. They don't even have a proper union.

Any Aussie paying dues to an actual union are pretty safe from being furloughed out of seniority order IMO. I don't think it's ever happened. We are afforded exactly the same rights as locals, which is also a requirement of the E3 and notably different from any other overseas job, where they can pull the contracts at any moment.

^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^

Of course, the shifting ground upon which all airlines sit is always a factor. But there's nothing you can do about that.

[DropYourSocks]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

I think the folks saying 'no' are pilots that have been there, done that, and since returning to Oz, figure that it's better not to put it all at risk
The 'yes' people believe the hype, and trust that no one will bone them.
Sure, it is an adventure, but right now, how did that work out for everybody?
The Expats are always the first to be let go, and what kind of union protection are provided for you?
Look, sure, do it, but remember you are basically on your own.

Bro, the expats are not the first to go in the US. Covid proved that, when a bunch of WARN letters when out at our airline, the most junior went first, E3 or otherwise. It was only government assistance that actually stopped people from getting furloughed. Given how the expat lifestyle generally works, and a lack of knowledge of what the E3 actually is, your lack of knowledge is understandable. But, the E3 is a skilled worker visa. There doesn't have to be a shortage of Americans. It also doesn't cost a company anything to renew your E3 visa, so they could happily furlough in seniority order and still continue to renew your E3.

Also, while an E3 visa cannot be cancelled by the company, if they legitimately fire you, or you annoy them enough so that they choose not to renew your visa, well that's on you. It's really not hard to thrive in the US environment, but if you choose to bring an Oztranaut mentality with you, you can't say you weren't warned.

[Rogerwood]

Originally Posted by Buttscratcher

I think the folks saying 'no' are pilots that have been there, done that, and since returning to Oz, figure that it's better not to put it all at risk
The 'yes' people believe the hype, and trust that no one will bone them.
Sure, it is an adventure, but right now, how did that work out for everybody?
The Expats are always the first to be let go, and what kind of union protection are provided for you?
Look, sure, do it, but remember you are basically on your own.

Rubbish. What a sad person you must be? Do it but remember it won’t work out, you will be sacked first, no union membership etc. That’s all lies. You have a seniority number and that is who goes first after they request anyone wishing to furlough. I know this from the oz pilots who are still there. They all have union membership and voting rights in the EBA. Maybe keep your unproven comments to yourself?