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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

Old 4th Aug 2022, 21:55
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
tossbag,

When you say "no shows" do you mean people just didn't sign up to attend in the first place...or signed up and then failed to appear without notice to the recruiters ?

People signed up for the roadshow/interview and failed to appear without notifying recruiters.

In my interview group… 20 were expected and only 5 showed up on the day/time.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 22:35
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Another Pilot,

Well, sorry to hear that. That's how you assure these airlines won't come back to headhunt at the local level where it's more convenient for you guys to get a personal shot at the job.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 23:21
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
Another Pilot,

Well, sorry to hear that. That's how you assure these airlines won't come back to headhunt at the local level where it's more convenient for you guys to get a personal shot at the job.

Well, in all honesty it doesn’t bother me… each to their own and must have had a valid reason for a no show. I got what I wanted to from the roadshow.

As you rightly said… now these airlines will be hesitant to come back and head hunt or to get anymore E3’s unless the situation is dire…. Just my personal opinion.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 23:28
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Another Pilot,


Yep...
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 01:30
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Well, sorry to hear that. That's how you assure these airlines won't come back to headhunt at the local level where it's more convenient for you guys to get a personal shot at the job.
I doubt very much that they'll come back here bafanguy. And I doubt they'll recruit any more pilots from Australia. Poor behaviour.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 02:06
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Originally Posted by tossbag
I doubt very much that they'll come back here bafanguy. And I doubt they'll recruit any more pilots from Australia. Poor behaviour.
That’s not poor behaviour my friend, it’s how free market capitalism works, the Americans seem to champion it so much so they shouldn’t be surprised.

It’s an info session and not all the people who ticked yes on an internet form showed up. It wasn’t mandatory, they weren’t employed by said company. Obviously after considering the deal a lot of pilots decided they weren’t interested to the extent they didn’t feel the need to attend the roadshow. Obviously the conditions on offer couldn’t get pilots to the roadshow.

What I do find strange is stories of pilots abandoning Australian airlines for the US, even before beginning employment, and the vibe from some here is “ha ha ha, stupid Australian airlines, it’s awesome so many are abandoning them, they’re going to have to provide better deals to keep their staff”, whereas not showing up to this Spirit (considered at the bottom rung of US airlines) info day suddenly becomes “poor form, poor behaviour” on behalf of those pilots.

These airlines aren’t providing a charity and the pilots aren’t volunteering their time. This is a business transaction, plain and simple. No Australian pilot owes any US airline a single thing. I’m sure if the tables were turned these US carriers would drop them like a hot stone, circa 2000-2010. They want Australian pilots to work for them, they need to provide a better deal. It’s incumbent on them not pilots who didn’t turn up to a roadshow.

Or maybe it shows this notion that every second pilot in Australia, even major airline Captains, are desperate to flock to America is a bit of a furphy.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 02:43
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Originally Posted by dr dre
That’s not poor behaviour my friend, it’s how free market capitalism works, the Americans seem to champion it so much so they shouldn’t be surprised.

It’s an info session and not all the people who ticked yes on an internet form showed up. It wasn’t mandatory, they weren’t employed by said company. Obviously after considering the deal a lot of pilots decided they weren’t interested to the extent they didn’t feel the need to attend the roadshow. Obviously the conditions on offer couldn’t get pilots to the roadshow.

What I do find strange is stories of pilots abandoning Australian airlines for the US, even before beginning employment, and the vibe from some here is “ha ha ha, stupid Australian airlines, it’s awesome so many are abandoning them, they’re going to have to provide better deals to keep their staff”, whereas not showing up to this Spirit (considered at the bottom rung of US airlines) info day suddenly becomes “poor form, poor behaviour” on behalf of those pilots.

These airlines aren’t providing a charity and the pilots aren’t volunteering their time. This is a business transaction, plain and simple. No Australian pilot owes any US airline a single thing. I’m sure if the tables were turned these US carriers would drop them like a hot stone, circa 2000-2010. They want Australian pilots to work for them, they need to provide a better deal. It’s incumbent on them not pilots who didn’t turn up to a roadshow.

Or maybe it shows this notion that every second pilot in Australia, even major airline Captains, are desperate to flock to America is a bit of a furphy.
Mostly agree. I work for Spirit. Australians can go to PSA, Piedmont and (maybe??) Envoy and make a lot more money right out of the gate with immediate upgrade potential after 1000 hours. Spirit is doing nothing to match that at the moment. Even in second year with the premium pay and bonuses and captain pay match on offer I still don't think it's worthwhile in the eyes of a new hire. If you're looking at a 10 year horizon I could probably argue that Spirit offers more as you have a pretty low chance to flow on an E3, but for a quick buck, some fast jet PIC and an adventure with AA bennies? They got nothing.

Honestly, the more no shows the better, then we get out of bottom feeder status.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 02:57
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Originally Posted by Another Pilot
People signed up for the roadshow/interview and failed to appear without notifying recruiters.

In my interview group… 20 were expected and only 5 showed up on the day/time.
For what it's worth I think the issue might have been how it was sold. I and a couple of colleagues thought it was a roadshow/meet and greet but they actually wanted me to put in a full on application, which I explained I was not ready to do just yet. Confident I didn't burn any bridges as I notified them, they were understanding.
Atlas was more a "come see our presentation, bring your resume along and we can have a chat if you like" and they had 40 ish in each session thus far and I saw them midway through the sessions..
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 02:59
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Originally Posted by dr dre
That’s not poor behaviour my friend, it’s how free market capitalism works, the Americans seem to champion it so much so they shouldn’t be surprised.

It’s an info session and not all the people who ticked yes on an internet form showed up. It wasn’t mandatory, they weren’t employed by said company. Obviously after considering the deal a lot of pilots decided they weren’t interested to the extent they didn’t feel the need to attend the roadshow. Obviously the conditions on offer couldn’t get pilots to the roadshow.

What I do find strange is stories of pilots abandoning Australian airlines for the US, even before beginning employment, and the vibe from some here is “ha ha ha, stupid Australian airlines, it’s awesome so many are abandoning them, they’re going to have to provide better deals to keep their staff”, whereas not showing up to this Spirit (considered at the bottom rung of US airlines) info day suddenly becomes “poor form, poor behaviour” on behalf of those pilots.

These airlines aren’t providing a charity and the pilots aren’t volunteering their time. This is a business transaction, plain and simple. No Australian pilot owes any US airline a single thing. I’m sure if the tables were turned these US carriers would drop them like a hot stone, circa 2000-2010. They want Australian pilots to work for them, they need to provide a better deal. It’s incumbent on them not pilots who didn’t turn up to a roadshow.

Or maybe it shows this notion that every second pilot in Australia, even major airline Captains, are desperate to flock to America is a bit of a furphy.
Dr Dre

What you are saying is right but what’s been discussed here is the lack of basic courtesy of not letting your recruiter know that you will not be attending the interview. As I said before that everyone may have a valid reason for not attending.

most of those pilots knew what to expect (in terms of deal) before they registered their interest for in person interview. How many people will just be a no show to a QF or VA or Rex interviews for that matter.

From the stories I have heard and discussed here aswell… Pilots are not abandoning Australian airlines… they are abandoning toxic work culture and conditions they are forced to work under… especially by certain someone who threatens to fire people if they try to negotiate the offer on the table!
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 03:13
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Originally Posted by Another Pilot
Dr Dre

What you are saying is right but what’s been discussed here is the lack of basic courtesy of not letting your recruiter know that you will not be attending the interview. As I said before that everyone may have a valid reason for not attending.

most of those pilots knew what to expect (in terms of deal) before they registered their interest for in person interview. How many people will just be a no show to a QF or VA or Rex interviews for that matter.

From the stories I have heard and discussed here aswell… Pilots are not abandoning Australian airlines… they are abandoning toxic work culture and conditions they are forced to work under… especially by certain someone who threatens to fire people if they try to negotiate the offer on the table!
Well they go hand in hand. Long upgrades, toxic management, medicals, CASA, expensive etc. It’s not just aviation but it’s worse in aviation.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 03:41
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Interview with David Neeleman about Breeze. Discussion about the US Industry Pilot Shortage starts at 15 mins

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/what...ing-cheap#play
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 04:05
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Originally Posted by umop apisdn
Mostly agree. I work for Spirit. Australians can go to PSA, Piedmont and (maybe??) Envoy and make a lot more money right out of the gate with immediate upgrade potential after 1000 hours. Spirit is doing nothing to match that at the moment. Even in second year with the premium pay and bonuses and captain pay match on offer I still don't think it's worthwhile in the eyes of a new hire. If you're looking at a 10 year horizon I could probably argue that Spirit offers more as you have a pretty low chance to flow on an E3, but for a quick buck, some fast jet PIC and an adventure with AA bennies? They got nothing.

Honestly, the more no shows the better, then we get out of bottom feeder status.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 06:51
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That’s not poor behaviour my friend, it’s how free market capitalism works
The poor behaviour........my friend..........is making an appointment to see them and not showing up, without letting them know you are not coming. Spirit were interviewing on the day. CJO's were offered a few days later to those they wanted.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 07:19
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Originally Posted by tossbag
The poor behaviour........my friend..........is making an appointment to see them and not showing up, without letting them know you are not coming. Spirit were interviewing on the day. CJO's were offered a few days later to those they wanted.
So it wasn’t just a roadshow, these were confirmed job interviews for employment then? A real job interview is one where you prepare as best as possible because you know only a fraction of those being interviewed will be employed.

Still doesn’t change my original point, if people don’t bother to show up to an interview the first thing one should think isn’t “poor behaviour by those pilots”, it’s “how unattractive is our offer if those who said they’d be at the roadshow don’t bother to show up”. Because most pilots aren’t lazy or rude, they just know a better deal when they see it.

And at worst what will be the outcome? They get blacklisted and never get to work at Spirit? I’m sure they’re in tears over that……
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 07:47
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I’m with Tossbag, probably do the same with dining reservations
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 11:27
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A real job interview is one where you prepare as best as possible because you know only a fraction of those being interviewed will be employed.
O...M...G.....tell me you're an Australian pilot without telling me you're an Australian pilot.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 12:10
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Did those who signed up for the Spirit event know what terms & conditions Spirit was offering before they signed up ? If they decided not to go because of inadequate offerings, why did they sign up in the first place ?

True enough, the no-show is not the end of the world but it'll likely end Spirit's efforts to facilitate things for E3s by having a face-to-face event Down There...which is always better than the distance method.

If Spirit had set up these events and few, if any, people signed up then as dr dre said, the market would have spoken and that'd be Spirit's mistake to have offered the meetings.

And filling out an application before attending such a meet & greet is pretty standard from what I hear people talking about...and meet & greets are pretty common here and considered an important step in the process.

But there are paths available to Spirit absent the face-to-face Down There so the job will still be available from the sound of it.

Last edited by bafanguy; 5th Aug 2022 at 20:54.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 13:23
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I've known what Spirit are offering for some time. I pretty much know what American pilots do when they're looking at which companies they want to work for, they do research.

US airline jobs are FIFO, Fit In or F@ck Off, I like that. But apparently Australian pilots have to be feted, told how good they are and woo'ed.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 18:25
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This is for all you new guys. If you tell a US carrier you'll be somewhere, and fail to honour your word, you are what's wrong with Australian pilots. The "I'm OK Jack" attitude really makes us all look bad, and tarnishes the effort most of us have made to build a good reputation here. If you're not interested in Spirit or whoever, that's cool, just act like a professional about it. Believe it or not, there are other Aussie pilots who may one-day like the opportunity to work at Spirit, Atlas, Frontier, or a regional, and would appreciate not having to overcome the oztranaut stigma.

To those that are here and working hard, thank you for the efforts you make to make all Aussies look good. I'd wager the next generation of folks slogging it out in GA who will soon come here for their jet time will appreciate your efforts.
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Old 5th Aug 2022, 20:53
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Originally Posted by tossbag
I've known what Spirit are offering for some time. I pretty much know what American pilots do when they're looking at which companies they want to work for, they do research.
tossbag,

I wasn't directing any comments toward you or anything you did. I was just opining about the application process.
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