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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

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Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

Old 1st Jul 2022, 06:55
  #2261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Climb150
Brunei is less than 2 weeks atm I have been told. You can email and ask

[email protected]
Good luck

Thanks mate
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 02:36
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So Spirit is concerned that overseas pilots (Australians) are suppressing conditions in the US. But still we all go. But don't dare see Rex or Air North or any Aus company do that. How dare they, what is the government thinking. Hypocrites.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 03:03
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Originally Posted by rodney rude
So Spirit is concerned that overseas pilots (Australians) are suppressing conditions in the US. But still we all go. But don't dare see Rex or Air North or any Aus company do that. How dare they, what is the government thinking. Hypocrites.
You call the massive pay rise that a lot of airlines have had over there recently, suppressed?

Rex offered some stupidly low offer and think itís acceptableÖ.. Iíll leave that there
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 04:25
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So Spirit is concerned that overseas pilots (Australians) are suppressing conditions in the US. But still we all go. But don't dare see Rex or Air North or any Aus company do that. How dare they, what is the government thinking. Hypocrites.
There had been a bit of chatter on a regional bulletin board about E3's keeping the pay conditions low, that was when the hourly rate was around $51 p/h. In the last month that hourly rate has gone to $90 p/h. E3's have point five percent of ****all effect on pay rates in the US.

Pay rates in the US are skyrocketing, pay rates in AUS.............plummeting.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 05:22
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Originally Posted by tossbag
There had been a bit of chatter on a regional bulletin board about E3's keeping the pay conditions low, that was when the hourly rate was around $51 p/h. In the last month that hourly rate has gone to $90 p/h. E3's have point five percent of ****all effect on pay rates in the US.

Pay rates in the US are skyrocketing, pay rates in AUS.............plummeting.
Most regionals are still starting pilots at $50 per hour. Spirit Airlines woeful first year hourly rate is $61 per hour. It seems every day there are more negative social media posts on Facebook and LinkedIn. We are being labelled scabs. The best thing would be for Australians not to go to Spirit. Stay away till their contract negotiations are complete.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 07:12
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I'm talking about the AA WO regionals not 'most regionals'

I think you'll find that first year pay at every airline, whether it's regional, major or LCC is poor.

As far as accepting an offer with Spirit goes, it would be a tough ride trying to work in an environment like that.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 09:45
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From what I have heard from people working for spirit airlines , it’s not a bad company after all if you want to stay there for the next 5 years or so and yes ofcourse starting pay is not pretty inviting too. I am sure once the merger is finalised they may increase their pay to attract pilots from all over USA and other places as they are expanding and this would really hurt them if they can’t find pilots now as not many would wanna leave regionals with sorta better conditions now than what they have had in the past . Spirit is still a good options if you want to skip regionals completely unless ofcourse one don’t have the hours and experience to apply to spirit at the first place .

Good luck everyone and get onboard before Recession kicks in !!!
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 11:09
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Originally Posted by rodney rude
So Spirit is concerned that overseas pilots (Australians) are suppressing conditions in the US. But still we all go.
I must be missing something here. Spirit is concerned that E3s are suppressing conditions so they're sending their recruiters to Australia on a headhunting expedition ?

If Aussies are suppressing conditions by accepting the 1st year pay at regionals or LCCs, then so are the Americans who also accept the same terms of employment at the same carriers. And at a unionized carrier, pilots don't get to vote on anything in their first year. Starting in the second year, they get to vote for/against any negotiated contract just like US citizens. I doubt the Aussie factor, in isolation, would be large enough to swing the vote one way or the other.

Now in the Part 91, 135 world where people essentially negotiate individual Ts & Cs with an employer, perhaps that suppression argument could be made...PERHAPS. I just don't know for sure.

[ In case people haven't noticed, [b]EVERY PILOT GROUP complains about their negotiated pay, work rules and the process that achieved them...Delta, United, FedEx, American...and every regional that has ever existed. Yet they still exist and have even before they had E3s.]

Last edited by bafanguy; 2nd Jul 2022 at 11:39.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 16:28
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Originally Posted by rodney rude
So Spirit is concerned that overseas pilots (Australians) are suppressing conditions in the US. But still we all go. But don't dare see Rex or Air North or any Aus company do that. How dare they, what is the government thinking. Hypocrites.
We are going pretty hard for raised rates, so the union had to do something when they announced the roadshow. Honestly I genuinely hope that all the Aussies go to the wholly owned AA regionals where they can make some proper money, but make no mistake, getting 60 - 80 Australians into your airline really doesn't do much when 100s are leaving per month and the net pilot gain is still negative.

As far as accepting an offer with Spirit goes, it would be a tough ride trying to work in an environment like that.
It really wouldn't. Everyone here is chill. You'll be hard pressed to find any Australian pilot that has been badgered by a local at any airline for coming over and 'suppressing wages,' because they know it's not true. They are too busy working their ass off and seeing hundreds of flights cancel every month while their management does nothing of value to curb attrition. There is no "dey took ur jerbs" vibe over here because literally ANYONE can get a job anywhere they want at the moment.

We are being labelled scabs.
We are absolutely not. You need to be really careful with using the S word when you don't know what it means, as does anyone else that utters it on social media or in actual media. Anyone that says it wrapped in an opinion has no idea what they are talking about. "Seems pretty scabby to me" "In my book that's scab behaviour" etc etc... It's like watching seagulls with a friend who suddenly thinks that they seem more like antelope and tries to convince you of such. You'd think your friend had a few screws loose. There is absolutely no grey area on the definition of scab.

I must be missing something here. Spirit is concerned that E3s are suppressing conditions so they're sending their recruiters to Australia on a headhunting expedition ?
Spirit the company is not the Spirit union, that's where all this is coming from,
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 16:44
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Originally Posted by umop apisdn
Spirit the company is not the Spirit union, that's where all this is coming from,

Ah so, makes sense. I knew I'd missed something.

And you're right about the term, scab. People who know better throw that emotional hand grenade into their arguments...for emotional effect. Shame on them. The real definition isn't too hard to understand.
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Old 2nd Jul 2022, 22:27
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Go and have fun boys and girls. Donít listen to anyone who tries to put you down for going over there, because ultimately itís only one thing coming from them, JEALOUSY!

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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 01:52
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No jealousy at all Morno, you're clealry a smart guy so I'm surprised you'd make a broadbrush generalisation.. There is a huge amount of talk about air operators in Australia who are offering rubbish conditions that Aussies are offended by. We all talk about the race to the bottom. Would you say to foreign pilots coming here to join airlines that bypass locals or offer conditions we locals know are rubbish "Come and have fun boys and girls, and don't listen to anyone tryin g to put you down for helping the race to the bottom, they're just jealous." If you would say that, I offer you my thanks for accelerating the race to the bottom. We can't have it both ways.

I admittedly don't have much knowledge of the pilot market and why there are E3s being thrown around like smarties. But Bafanguy, I'm only responding regarding the letter written by Spirit pilots essentially not happy with wage suppression caused by E3s. I would take it that means Aussies are doing exactly what we hate happening here. If its a genuine pilot shortage and even good conditions are being ineffective as a recruiting tool, then get on the fastest boat. But when a group of pilots says the conditions are low and not enough Americans will accept them, then that is a very different story - expats are helping that airline with the race down.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 01:57
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For the Mods

It might be time to update the thread title to Australian pilots can work for US airlines... since we're everywhere now. On a serious note, I'll echo what others have said here. I, nor any other Aussie I know, have ever been made to feel anything but welcome in the US. Get amongst it, the Americans are awesome to fly with, and you'll enjoy some incredible new experiences.

Some of my personal favourites include:
-flying over Times Square at 4000'
-briefing how to depart DCA to the north and not get blasted by Whitehouse defence
-enjoying bbq and live country music in downtown Nashville
- Cancun overnights
-flying rnavs into uncontrolled Rocky Mountain airports at night that have an elevation of ~7000'
-shooting an ils to minimums onto a contaminated runway in the middle of winter into Indianapolis
-diverting from Little Rock due to tornadoes touching down around the field
-learning that dive bars is where you'll have the most fun

Point is, if you're an aviation nerd, you'll nerd out hard here. If you're after a plethora of cultural experiences, you'll find that too.

Last edited by DropYourSocks; 3rd Jul 2022 at 03:46.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 02:11
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Originally Posted by rodney rude

I admittedly don't have much knowledge of the pilot market and why there are E3s being thrown around like smarties.

This statement right here is exactly why the Spirit MEC did what they did. A lack of knowledge breeds fear of the unknown, and the MEC's reaction is completely rational. But here's the fundamental difference between the slew of concessionary contracts being voted on in Aus. Every airline that takes E3s, except Spirit, has either raised pay, or their pilot group has voted down subpar offers from management. Frontier raised first year pay, Spirit won't be far behind regardless of if they have E3s or not.

With the exception of Skywest, every airline here is also a closed shop. That means you're either in the union, or you're unemployed, unlike Aus.

While it would be a fair statement to say "every Australian pilot that heads over delays contract improvements", it's a tough argument to quantify. The number of us is a drop in the ocean compared to the movement of American pilots. Just this year's hiring alone is more than there are Australian airline pilots on the planet, give or take. This is especially true when there are hundreds of cancelled flights due lack of crews, and pay increases seem to be the order of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a shot at you, but the way the US works is hard to grasp when compared to how small and depressed the Australian industry is by comparison.

Last edited by DropYourSocks; 3rd Jul 2022 at 02:24.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 03:08
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Originally Posted by rodney rude
I admittedly don't have much knowledge of the pilot market and why there are E3s being thrown around like smarties.
Then the rest of your argument is not worth reading
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 08:57
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You're right. Particularly the line "clearly you're a clever man".

Guess the argument was a bit too solid for you.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 09:01
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Dropsocks. Thanks for the constructive reply. Gives an insight of industrial tactics at play.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 11:39
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Having paid dues and been a member of ALPA for 20 years now, I’ve seen how ALPA has at certain times taken a stand on issues and spun them in a less than accurate light, to rally and galvanise the masses. This is one of those times. Anybody actually working for a US carrier knows full well, the number of E3’s is insignificant and wholly unlikely to make any difference to pay and conditions, perceived or otherwise. However, it won’t make a blind bit of difference because there’s nothing like a threat to your wallet, to get you to lose focus of the truth.

BUT, don’t underestimate any unions ability to rally support when it comes to “foreign pilots taking our jobs”. I had a feeling this would happen at some point. There’s a race to secure as many pilots as possible going on in the US. Every airline needs as many bodies as they can get and they all need them now. In the 7 years I’ve been back here, the mob I’m with have hired 5000 pilots. That’s just one airline. No union will let this need or any leverage it creates, go missed. It’s that simple.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 11:45
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You'll be hard pressed to find any Australian pilot that has been badgered by a local at any airline for coming over and 'suppressing wages,' because they know it's not true.
That's good to hear!
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 23:49
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Iím over in the US of A - best move ever. The pilot shortage in the US is a real and present. Thousands of flights a day are cancelled due crewing. Not only is the pay better than a comparable position in Aus, but the attitudes of your colleagues, instructors and management are light years ahead of any Australian company. The ANAL, fascist, approach to aviation that Australian Aviation has morphed into, has resulted a work/life balance that only can lead to depression and misery. I am enjoying flying again. I am enjoying life, and am very thankful that Australians have the privilege to work in the US on the E3 visa program. Oh on a side note, there is ZERO animosity here towards us working over here. Pay rates have gone up twice since I have started, and no US bloke is being held back from command because of Aussies coming over.

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