300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
Package is out. Essentially 12 months if you have more than 15 years of service.
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Hey V-Jet, who's doing "long back of the clocks" 3 or 4 times a week for 5 years? You'd run out of hours pretty quick I'd say. Probably get 20 days off a month. Poor baby.
Maybe you should just concern yourself with all that international law and stuff...and everything else...you seem to be an expert on.
Maybe you should just concern yourself with all that international law and stuff...and everything else...you seem to be an expert on.
Package is out. Essentially 12 months if you have more than 15 years of service.
Maybe you should just concern yourself with all that international law and stuff...and everything else...you seem to be an expert on.
American Eagle pilots might not get the constant 12 hour time zone changes but they work a lot. My guess was at least 3-4 late nights a week.
Its an interesting point you allude to. Of my course, everyone on the 737 agrees it is a lot less tiring and you are home a lot more. But you are 'in the cockpit' a lot more days. The tiredness is different. You also might not be 'working' when you are away on a 380/744 pattern, but there is not a person at Qf who has not watched endless re-runs of CNN at 0300 when you are wide awake but been desperately tired at 1800 when you desperately need but are unable to sleep for the upcoming 16 hours. The 767 I found the worst, but a lot of people find the ultra long haul worse. Its horses for courses. What I can say is that personally it takes 2-3 days to be able to operate reasonably well after you get home from a long SYD-LHR trip. I will not attempt to talk to anyone or do any domestic things (like fixing squeaky doors or the TV aerial) for that long, because no matter how simple the task, I would invariably break whatever it was I tried to fix. The dog and wife would know to stay away and accept that whatever it was I was playing with would get broken. And god help any bank that called if I am late with a payment. Patience = zero.
You make light of the Law, and I understand where you are coming from, but if you are bored for a month, try to read the Jepp WWT and overlay it with the Aussie regs for any port you might divert to. It helps to know a reasonable amount about the political situation in those places as well and whether they have pavement strengths suitable, parking bays, tugs that can cope with big jets, refuellers/fuel/toilet/food and spares for whatever put you there in the first place. And you also consider the potential for immigration at 0200, hotel accommodation for 400 pax at short notice, medical availability. Things like (and BGA is helping out lot here by reducing the network so efficiently) NEVER being allowed to divert to mainland China if you have blasted out of Taiwan. etc etc etc etc etc.
Everyone knows the QF flight and legacy cabin crews enjoy massive conditions that are only matched in scale by their ego's and arrogance.
It may surprise you to know that I agree there are indeed some in the organisation, as in all areas of human existence, that are exactly as you describe. The other 95% are just normal blokes/blokettes who have been lucky enough to have been employed by a once great company for which they have a great loyalty despite its current problems.
You might also be surprised to hear what many would give up to ensure it returns even part of the way to its former quality.....but only if its led by someone with a vision of a great airline in their sights, not an ordinary organisation that rewards a few with gold for achieving short term goals of little substance.
If you have been at QF as long as you say you have 25 plus years , and I suspect you are just a failed wannabe , you would clearly have WB command with Wages at $400K gross , $240K clear.
Mr Flyboat do calm down
The QF pilots should be what Australian pilots aspire to not try to savage - thats' being sufficiently well doe by managers such that we don't need fellow aviators doing the same nonsense.
I haven't ever worked for QF but I have worked O/S for far greater wages and it can be done.
Suggest you need to stop referring to silly old tossers and focus your energies on the real culprits behind the demise of QF and other great airlines around the world - inept managers who can leave to work in mining companies or wherever once they have wreaked havoc as has happened at QF.
The QF pilots should be what Australian pilots aspire to not try to savage - thats' being sufficiently well doe by managers such that we don't need fellow aviators doing the same nonsense.
I haven't ever worked for QF but I have worked O/S for far greater wages and it can be done.
Suggest you need to stop referring to silly old tossers and focus your energies on the real culprits behind the demise of QF and other great airlines around the world - inept managers who can leave to work in mining companies or wherever once they have wreaked havoc as has happened at QF.
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You guys bag Joyce but you never suggest any concrete alternate strategy or plan, just repeat ad-nausem vague notions about "leadership" & "respect"
I have a suggestion or plan.
Let my left arse cheek run QANTAS.
It certainly has more of a strategy than the current CEO, Chairman and board combined. It also has the benefit of assisting the belting out of a fine trombone impersonation after a good curry.
By ginkgoes if this wasn't serious for thousands of people it would be funny.
The truth lies somewhere in between......as it usually does.
The boards strategy is flawed yet they persist due to a combination of the ' sunk cost fallacy' and basic ' conformation bias'.
The employees have terms and conditions that can no longer be supported because of the boards failed strategy. So what is to be done?
1/ The board must change strategy or be changed themselves
2/ The employees must become more efficient while the company digs it's way out of the hole.
It's real simple when the emotion is removed.
The truth lies somewhere in between......as it usually does.
The boards strategy is flawed yet they persist due to a combination of the ' sunk cost fallacy' and basic ' conformation bias'.
The employees have terms and conditions that can no longer be supported because of the boards failed strategy. So what is to be done?
1/ The board must change strategy or be changed themselves
2/ The employees must become more efficient while the company digs it's way out of the hole.
It's real simple when the emotion is removed.
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framer
Not so simple.
1/ Board won't change, they are all mates thinking they are doing a great job!
2/ Company is not really interested in efficiencies.
Not so simple.
1/ Board won't change, they are all mates thinking they are doing a great job!
2/ Company is not really interested in efficiencies.
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TB: You are exhibiting the classic signs of bullet point number one, delusional believes about self-importance, the taunting that I was rejected by QF, big noting yourself about how hard it is to join QF. Really just the mantra ,we are elite , we are special , we are icons - and as special pilots we deserve special dollars, and special deals.
As I said in an earlier post the delusion of QF pilots and their own importance is exhibited by the fact the have gatecrashed the Anzac Day parade, because they did charter flights to Saigon !
The T & Cs of QF pilots , FAs, Tradesmen are so far beyond the mark, the best airline managers in the world couldn't help you now.
The pay of QF pilots is everyone's business, because you guys attempted to fleabag the Govt for a few billion of taxpayer dollars, to prop up your failing business. And no doubt will attempt another parasitic raid on the Australian taxpayer funds.
It is no secret that QF LH has been the party boy fleet for the 2000s, will a well entrenched bludger culture and a real aversion to doing any work. For a few years the 330 crews were doing very little flying, as the A/C were handed over to Jetstar. Then the A380 boys as a small fleet, and especially while there was a lot of training going on pretty much did jack sh*t for a few years and still picked up the big $$. Extra long layovers (twice other airlines) , double the cash allowance of other airlines, taking an SO always - even on four hour sectors , pattern protection , many guys maxing out sick leave.
Really did you think it was going to last forever ? , did you really believe that ?
Did you really think that it could continue ? The fact that a Jestar FO who works O/T to almost max hours just makes over $200K whereas his QF counterpart exceeds $300K for significantly less hours.
Why would they offer a generous voluntary redundancy ? Firstly they can't afford one, and secondly they will just move to CR anyway where they can really zero in on some of the problem children.
As I said in an earlier post the delusion of QF pilots and their own importance is exhibited by the fact the have gatecrashed the Anzac Day parade, because they did charter flights to Saigon !
The T & Cs of QF pilots , FAs, Tradesmen are so far beyond the mark, the best airline managers in the world couldn't help you now.
The pay of QF pilots is everyone's business, because you guys attempted to fleabag the Govt for a few billion of taxpayer dollars, to prop up your failing business. And no doubt will attempt another parasitic raid on the Australian taxpayer funds.
It is no secret that QF LH has been the party boy fleet for the 2000s, will a well entrenched bludger culture and a real aversion to doing any work. For a few years the 330 crews were doing very little flying, as the A/C were handed over to Jetstar. Then the A380 boys as a small fleet, and especially while there was a lot of training going on pretty much did jack sh*t for a few years and still picked up the big $$. Extra long layovers (twice other airlines) , double the cash allowance of other airlines, taking an SO always - even on four hour sectors , pattern protection , many guys maxing out sick leave.
Really did you think it was going to last forever ? , did you really believe that ?
Did you really think that it could continue ? The fact that a Jestar FO who works O/T to almost max hours just makes over $200K whereas his QF counterpart exceeds $300K for significantly less hours.
Why would they offer a generous voluntary redundancy ? Firstly they can't afford one, and secondly they will just move to CR anyway where they can really zero in on some of the problem children.
Last edited by Flyboat North; 26th May 2014 at 08:49.
FN: you really seem extremely angry for someone without any skin in this game. FWIW the Pilots and Engineers union have been briefing Canberra on the unfolding disaster that has been QF for the last 10 ish years. That is how seriously 'we' take the future of 'our' airline.
This is tremendously sad. No-one at QF who has been there for any length of time has anything but total mistrust for anything emanating from the ridiculous 'Sydney Campus'
I doubt anyone wants any Govt money to go to QF while this management is in place, because there is absolutely no doubt it will be squandered in exactly the same way as all the other cash these fools have wasted.
The greed and incompetence at the top knows no bounds - they have both in equal measure.
No-one will give an inch when it has been proved time and again that giving an inch means the people who caused the problems will take ten and shout from the rooftops how brilliant they have 'managed' the situation.
No one reading this would be anything but deeply offended with your suggestion that we tried to 'fleabag the govt for a few billion' when it has been staff who have been warning of this disaster for nigh on ten years.
Your aggression needs to be directed at the root problem and that is anyone above operational level - they have none, and I mean absolutely none of the abilities needed to operate anything more complicated than a mouse trap, and certainly nothing approaching even a school tuck shop. And that opinion is not just mine, but every staff member with any understanding of the business, retired ground staff, retired Engineers, Pilots and Managers. It sickens everyone who has ever cared about Qantas.
This is tremendously sad. No-one at QF who has been there for any length of time has anything but total mistrust for anything emanating from the ridiculous 'Sydney Campus'
I doubt anyone wants any Govt money to go to QF while this management is in place, because there is absolutely no doubt it will be squandered in exactly the same way as all the other cash these fools have wasted.
The greed and incompetence at the top knows no bounds - they have both in equal measure.
No-one will give an inch when it has been proved time and again that giving an inch means the people who caused the problems will take ten and shout from the rooftops how brilliant they have 'managed' the situation.
No one reading this would be anything but deeply offended with your suggestion that we tried to 'fleabag the govt for a few billion' when it has been staff who have been warning of this disaster for nigh on ten years.
Your aggression needs to be directed at the root problem and that is anyone above operational level - they have none, and I mean absolutely none of the abilities needed to operate anything more complicated than a mouse trap, and certainly nothing approaching even a school tuck shop. And that opinion is not just mine, but every staff member with any understanding of the business, retired ground staff, retired Engineers, Pilots and Managers. It sickens everyone who has ever cared about Qantas.
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InsectDingy,
Out of curiosity I had a peek at your ranting. Are you sure everything is OK in your life? Some friends of mine, since you seem to reside in Melbourne, can supply the phone numbers of two very dedicated and experienced psychologists.
Either you are a very insecure and troubled individual or an amazingly odious character who delights in inflicting pain on already stressed people. I can only support the plea to the Moderators to relegate you to a private sandbox.
To Guys/Gals who are worried .... please .. please call a PAN person.
You know the rest.
N
Out of curiosity I had a peek at your ranting. Are you sure everything is OK in your life? Some friends of mine, since you seem to reside in Melbourne, can supply the phone numbers of two very dedicated and experienced psychologists.
Either you are a very insecure and troubled individual or an amazingly odious character who delights in inflicting pain on already stressed people. I can only support the plea to the Moderators to relegate you to a private sandbox.
To Guys/Gals who are worried .... please .. please call a PAN person.
You know the rest.
N
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Flyboat North.
I once itemised the inefficiencies I personally observed over a calendar month regarding the direct operating costs of operating my aircraft and associated extra costs.
Engineering, catering, pax accommodation, excess fuel useage incurred. Etc etc etc.
A classic example was that catering was so late on a delayed Perth-Sydney service the aircraft was operated at low level warp factor 9 to beat curfew in Sydney.
The dollar cost of wastage, delays, flight cancellations and inefficiencies far exceeded my after tax income for the entire month. And that's a fact.
Pilots wages don't impact on the bottom line. The way executives and AJ choose to run the airline has far greater impact.
It's just easier to blame the current financial position of the airline on employees.
MC.
I once itemised the inefficiencies I personally observed over a calendar month regarding the direct operating costs of operating my aircraft and associated extra costs.
Engineering, catering, pax accommodation, excess fuel useage incurred. Etc etc etc.
A classic example was that catering was so late on a delayed Perth-Sydney service the aircraft was operated at low level warp factor 9 to beat curfew in Sydney.
The dollar cost of wastage, delays, flight cancellations and inefficiencies far exceeded my after tax income for the entire month. And that's a fact.
Pilots wages don't impact on the bottom line. The way executives and AJ choose to run the airline has far greater impact.
It's just easier to blame the current financial position of the airline on employees.
MC.
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Do not give him any attention, he is a classic Walt.