300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???
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QF Second Officers paid more than Etihad and Emirates Captains, and you guys don't think pilot salaries are a problem.
QF Second Officers paid the same or more than BA narrow body captains ( command takes at least 15 years in Company).
Truly in Disneyland without a ticket
QF "Engineers" - well they call themselves Engineers but they are tradesman who hold a TAFE qualification, they are not recognized by the professional engineers peak body Institute of Engineers. Because they do not hold engineering degrees , they are tradies who quite often have a year 10 education. In the US they proudly call themselves what they actually are aircraft mechanics. So the QF aircraft tradesman who fraudulently call themselves "engineers" almost all getting paid well over $100K (and often up to $150K) for a 38 hour week. Must be the highest paid (for hours worked) tradies in the Land (one exception might be offshore workers) , their wages would often exceed those who do actually have engineering degrees - great pay for a year 10 grad. Likely around twice what your American counterparts are getting
But it is all just the fault of "the management" , the fact that QF wage bill is 24% of costs has nothing to do with it.
QF Second Officers paid the same or more than BA narrow body captains ( command takes at least 15 years in Company).
Truly in Disneyland without a ticket
QF "Engineers" - well they call themselves Engineers but they are tradesman who hold a TAFE qualification, they are not recognized by the professional engineers peak body Institute of Engineers. Because they do not hold engineering degrees , they are tradies who quite often have a year 10 education. In the US they proudly call themselves what they actually are aircraft mechanics. So the QF aircraft tradesman who fraudulently call themselves "engineers" almost all getting paid well over $100K (and often up to $150K) for a 38 hour week. Must be the highest paid (for hours worked) tradies in the Land (one exception might be offshore workers) , their wages would often exceed those who do actually have engineering degrees - great pay for a year 10 grad. Likely around twice what your American counterparts are getting
But it is all just the fault of "the management" , the fact that QF wage bill is 24% of costs has nothing to do with it.
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QF Second Officers paid more than Etihad and Emirates Captains, and you guys don't think pilot salaries are a problem
They even employed themselves en masse just 6 years ago in one of the biggest recruiting drives in the history of the company... (were they not already uncompetitive then…?)
No, Qantas Pilots have never ever offered to try and make themselves more competitive and negotiate with the management:
Again, for the mentally retarded:
Qantas not unions' fault
In a meeting in February 2011, I offered Alan Joyce a two-year pay freeze and a commitment to rewrite our certified agreement.
This was rejected out of hand. It is an ideological war and Mr Joyce needed the pilots to be able to lock the staff out in 2011 at a cost of over $200 million. There is nothing wrong with industrial relations in Australia but there is a lot wrong with management.
..........................
Barry Jackson
Sydney, NSW
Australian Financial Review, page 35, Friday 7 March 2014
In a meeting in February 2011, I offered Alan Joyce a two-year pay freeze and a commitment to rewrite our certified agreement.
This was rejected out of hand. It is an ideological war and Mr Joyce needed the pilots to be able to lock the staff out in 2011 at a cost of over $200 million. There is nothing wrong with industrial relations in Australia but there is a lot wrong with management.
..........................
Barry Jackson
Sydney, NSW
Australian Financial Review, page 35, Friday 7 March 2014
No, not managements fault at all. Nothing to do with them.
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The SOs are all members of the AIPA , and the AIPA has negotiated the EBA , workplace contracts etc on their behalf.
The Long Haul Agreement is 300 pages of give me , give me, give me, and is frankly a bizarre document. It really represents some kind of 1970s Pilot Nirvana wonderland, and really demonstrates a disconnect with reality.
There is no other document that details anywhere near the endless reams of entitlements , allowances , allowances , allowances as are detailed in this document.
You see the QF crews strutting around airports in SEA , walking the " Qantas Strut" , always mightily over crewed & with Cabin crew looking five years out from a nursing home , no doubt all earning over $100K
If you asked the pilots , well see that SIA crew they have two pilots ,why do you guys have three. You would get an answer like "We are Qantas, we are special , we are a national icon , we are therefore icons and that's how we roll brother".
Barry is telling tall stories again is he , was going to rewrite the whole document - Bahhhhhhh, when he was Pres he was babbling about job security , job security , job securitiy - what a firm grasp of reality he had.
Kiwi - call yourself what you actually are , you are a tradesman - you are not an engineer (despite what might be on some "licence"), you guys need to stop fraudulently calling yourselves engineers, it is a trade a highly skilled one sure and all aircraft tradies should be proud of their trade, the Americans just call it like it is Aircraft Mechanic.
The Long Haul Agreement is 300 pages of give me , give me, give me, and is frankly a bizarre document. It really represents some kind of 1970s Pilot Nirvana wonderland, and really demonstrates a disconnect with reality.
There is no other document that details anywhere near the endless reams of entitlements , allowances , allowances , allowances as are detailed in this document.
You see the QF crews strutting around airports in SEA , walking the " Qantas Strut" , always mightily over crewed & with Cabin crew looking five years out from a nursing home , no doubt all earning over $100K
If you asked the pilots , well see that SIA crew they have two pilots ,why do you guys have three. You would get an answer like "We are Qantas, we are special , we are a national icon , we are therefore icons and that's how we roll brother".
Barry is telling tall stories again is he , was going to rewrite the whole document - Bahhhhhhh, when he was Pres he was babbling about job security , job security , job securitiy - what a firm grasp of reality he had.
Kiwi - call yourself what you actually are , you are a tradesman - you are not an engineer (despite what might be on some "licence"), you guys need to stop fraudulently calling yourselves engineers, it is a trade a highly skilled one sure and all aircraft tradies should be proud of their trade, the Americans just call it like it is Aircraft Mechanic.
It made me laugh, but the truth lies somewhere between the extremist views and the ones claiming Qantas t & cs are the norm. I've had some funny overnights with Qantas crew. There are certainly some eccentrics in the rank and file. Having said that, they are in every airline. Qantas just seem to have a few more.
If Qantas is so competitive you'd see it growing. It's not. It's not ideological warfare. It's plain and simple. If management can make a buck for the shareholders they'll make an buck extra for themselves. I can't see Elaine making a buck ever, in any company. He's just a bean counter at heart.
Jetstar Australia was/is a good idea. It's also a pretty good business naysayers beware. I can't see the Asian franchises doing to well. Ever. The only people who make money in Asia are Asians. Asia is littered with failed western enterprise and stolen intellectual property. That is how they do business.
If Qantas is so competitive you'd see it growing. It's not. It's not ideological warfare. It's plain and simple. If management can make a buck for the shareholders they'll make an buck extra for themselves. I can't see Elaine making a buck ever, in any company. He's just a bean counter at heart.
Jetstar Australia was/is a good idea. It's also a pretty good business naysayers beware. I can't see the Asian franchises doing to well. Ever. The only people who make money in Asia are Asians. Asia is littered with failed western enterprise and stolen intellectual property. That is how they do business.
Flyboat, your definition of engineer is quite narrow. A professional that holds an engineering degree or similar qualification is just one form of engineer. Not sure how old you are, but aircraft used to have flight engineers. Old locomotives were operated by engineers. Members of the Royal Corps of Engineers - sappers - are engineers. Are you going to notify the Queen that she is wrong calling her soldiers engineers?
The term 'engineer' has a long history as a term to describe a technical trade. Stating that only someone with an engineering degree can call themselves an engineer is wrong.
The term 'engineer' has a long history as a term to describe a technical trade. Stating that only someone with an engineering degree can call themselves an engineer is wrong.
Failure to negotiate
Meanwhile over in Short Haul our EA expired back on 31 August 2012.
Just another example of the worlds best Airline Managers approach to their staff and lack of urgency.
Yet another delay due to QF management with this from AIPA today...
This disrespect shown despite the QF SH Pilots achieving the following accolades from QF Domestic CEO back in Jan 14
Just another example of the worlds best Airline Managers approach to their staff and lack of urgency.
Yet another delay due to QF management with this from AIPA today...
_ SHEA Update - May 2014 __
As you would be aware, your SHEA team was due to meet with Company negotiators on 7 May 2014. We expected to be provided with details of the proposed company-wide wage freeze policy at this meeting.
At the request of Qantas, the scheduled meeting was delayed and we have finally pencilled in our next meeting to occur on 27 May 2014.
Given this latest delay, we anticipate a complete policy regarding remuneration to be forthcoming, as it will have been 3 full months since the February announcement and we haven’t seen any progress on this issue.
Your SHEA team is cognisant of the fact that the patience of Short Haul pilots is being tested by continual delays outside of their control. Be assured that we are doing everything possible to ensure a swift conclusion to an already well overdue EA.
As you would be aware, your SHEA team was due to meet with Company negotiators on 7 May 2014. We expected to be provided with details of the proposed company-wide wage freeze policy at this meeting.
At the request of Qantas, the scheduled meeting was delayed and we have finally pencilled in our next meeting to occur on 27 May 2014.
Given this latest delay, we anticipate a complete policy regarding remuneration to be forthcoming, as it will have been 3 full months since the February announcement and we haven’t seen any progress on this issue.
Your SHEA team is cognisant of the fact that the patience of Short Haul pilots is being tested by continual delays outside of their control. Be assured that we are doing everything possible to ensure a swift conclusion to an already well overdue EA.
QANTAS MOST ON-TIME MAJOR DOMESTIC AIRLINE FOR 2013
This is first time Qantas, or any other airline, has been the most on time airline for 12 out of 12 months and is the fifth year in a row Qantas has recorded the best results.
Qantas Domestic Chief Executive Officer Lyell Strambi said strong on-time performance results were a contributing factor to Qantas Domestic’s strong customer satisfaction levels.
“We know how important reliability and punctuality is to our customers so we are delighted to be consistently delivering on this year after year,” Mr Strambi said.
....
“All airlines operate in the same weather conditions and within the same airport environment, so the difference between our on-time performance and our competitors comes down to our dedicated people who work tirelessly to get our customers to their destinations on time.
This is first time Qantas, or any other airline, has been the most on time airline for 12 out of 12 months and is the fifth year in a row Qantas has recorded the best results.
Qantas Domestic Chief Executive Officer Lyell Strambi said strong on-time performance results were a contributing factor to Qantas Domestic’s strong customer satisfaction levels.
“We know how important reliability and punctuality is to our customers so we are delighted to be consistently delivering on this year after year,” Mr Strambi said.
....
“All airlines operate in the same weather conditions and within the same airport environment, so the difference between our on-time performance and our competitors comes down to our dedicated people who work tirelessly to get our customers to their destinations on time.
Last edited by CaptCloudbuster; 21st May 2014 at 04:07.
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Licenced Aircraft Engineers
Flyboat re Licenced Aircraft Engineers
Many Airlines including
QF,NZ,CX,SQ,MH,TG,EK,QR,EY,BA,AI,9W,BI,CI,BR,KZ, etc etc most of Europe, Africa, Asia etc etc all have them.
They may have only attended school until they were 16, but ever since then they lived, breathed and studied aircraft systems and maintenance,
I am sure when they have a busted jet, most pilots are happy to see a Licenced Aircraft Engineer walk into the aircraft,who knows how to either fix it, or get you going to where it can be fixed.
Degree engineers have their purpose, but a good LAE is worth every bit of $150K per year, especially when they work 3000hours a year, Xmas, New Year, Easter, Birthdays etc etc like me !
Rant over !
Many Airlines including
QF,NZ,CX,SQ,MH,TG,EK,QR,EY,BA,AI,9W,BI,CI,BR,KZ, etc etc most of Europe, Africa, Asia etc etc all have them.
They may have only attended school until they were 16, but ever since then they lived, breathed and studied aircraft systems and maintenance,
I am sure when they have a busted jet, most pilots are happy to see a Licenced Aircraft Engineer walk into the aircraft,who knows how to either fix it, or get you going to where it can be fixed.
Degree engineers have their purpose, but a good LAE is worth every bit of $150K per year, especially when they work 3000hours a year, Xmas, New Year, Easter, Birthdays etc etc like me !
Rant over !
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Flyboat.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel didn't have a degree either so since I was under the impression that he was one of the Worlds greatest ENGINEERS I must have been wrong . He wasn't an engineer at all, just a puffed up fitter?
And while we are on it,in the USA the mechanics and sparkies work for ENGINEERING companies even though I never saw any degreed ones amongst their ranks.
In the US they also had/have FLIGHT ENGINEERS who like Australia had licenses issued by their Government.
The typical airline LAME in Australia when I worked in the industry had a large team working under him and /or was the final person resposnsible for a very expensive asset.What do you think that the person who signs out an A380 should be paid? Maybe the same as the mechanic that services my car?
The typical GA LAME often does earn less than my mechanic.
I guess that you think that they should be paid peanuts?
Wunwing
Isambard Kingdom Brunel didn't have a degree either so since I was under the impression that he was one of the Worlds greatest ENGINEERS I must have been wrong . He wasn't an engineer at all, just a puffed up fitter?
And while we are on it,in the USA the mechanics and sparkies work for ENGINEERING companies even though I never saw any degreed ones amongst their ranks.
In the US they also had/have FLIGHT ENGINEERS who like Australia had licenses issued by their Government.
The typical airline LAME in Australia when I worked in the industry had a large team working under him and /or was the final person resposnsible for a very expensive asset.What do you think that the person who signs out an A380 should be paid? Maybe the same as the mechanic that services my car?
The typical GA LAME often does earn less than my mechanic.
I guess that you think that they should be paid peanuts?
Wunwing
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Aircraft ares designed built and tested by degree qualified engineers not tradesmen but aero / mech / elec /electronic / materials engineers etc etc.
As I said earlier a lot a aircraft tradesmen at QF leave school after year 10 , engineers have at least six , and often seven years (if you do Eng @ UMelb) of full time education more than you , something you will simply never make up, so stop pretending you are part of this group.
The authority that recognizes & registers/licenses Engineers in Australia is the Institute of Engineers ; it is not CASA - they regulate aircraft tradies.
HM , all very interesting but we don't really have loco/flight engineers these days. Your thinking is a bit black and white brother , bellowing at me "you are wrong", not so nice perhaps a touch of schoolteacher syndrome.
Engineering Corps of Army the enlisted guys yes great job they do at Clearing and maintaining roads/airfields , operating barges ferries , clearing obstacles etc etc. But because a soldier drives a grader for the Eng Corp -that doesn't make him an engineer. Brilliant grader/bulldozer driver and all that he might be.
In the modern vernacular if someone describes themself as an "engineer" it means they have an engineering degree - simply concept really.
Kiwi, at sleep with Teddy bears. Well that is one way of looking at it another way would be that these guys had tons more drive , self discipline & toughness than you. Because they we able to push themselves through the endless hours of study , in late teens early twenties when it was pretty much party time for the Trade boys. They didn't want to be working the graveyard shift in their 40s and did something to ensure that didn't happen.
Notice Clifford who is Professional Eng is your Chairman don't see too many self called aircraft spanner men "engineers" gracing the boardrooms.
It is only a handful of former British Colonies who have adopted this quaint habit of bestowing the title "engineers" upon aircraft mechanics.
Got to love the Brits and their titles.
Actually looks like three Engineers on the QF board
You might have fooled CASA into calling you "Engineers" doesn't seem the Institute of Engineers , or others were so easily fooled.
As I said earlier a lot a aircraft tradesmen at QF leave school after year 10 , engineers have at least six , and often seven years (if you do Eng @ UMelb) of full time education more than you , something you will simply never make up, so stop pretending you are part of this group.
The authority that recognizes & registers/licenses Engineers in Australia is the Institute of Engineers ; it is not CASA - they regulate aircraft tradies.
HM , all very interesting but we don't really have loco/flight engineers these days. Your thinking is a bit black and white brother , bellowing at me "you are wrong", not so nice perhaps a touch of schoolteacher syndrome.
Engineering Corps of Army the enlisted guys yes great job they do at Clearing and maintaining roads/airfields , operating barges ferries , clearing obstacles etc etc. But because a soldier drives a grader for the Eng Corp -that doesn't make him an engineer. Brilliant grader/bulldozer driver and all that he might be.
In the modern vernacular if someone describes themself as an "engineer" it means they have an engineering degree - simply concept really.
Kiwi, at sleep with Teddy bears. Well that is one way of looking at it another way would be that these guys had tons more drive , self discipline & toughness than you. Because they we able to push themselves through the endless hours of study , in late teens early twenties when it was pretty much party time for the Trade boys. They didn't want to be working the graveyard shift in their 40s and did something to ensure that didn't happen.
Notice Clifford who is Professional Eng is your Chairman don't see too many self called aircraft spanner men "engineers" gracing the boardrooms.
It is only a handful of former British Colonies who have adopted this quaint habit of bestowing the title "engineers" upon aircraft mechanics.
Got to love the Brits and their titles.
Actually looks like three Engineers on the QF board
You might have fooled CASA into calling you "Engineers" doesn't seem the Institute of Engineers , or others were so easily fooled.
Notice Clifford who is Professional Eng is your Chairman don't see too many self called aircraft spanner men "engineers" gracing the boardrooms.
/ed!The key to any successful company is having people run it who actually know what the hell it is that the company does.
This is a bunch of cretins off the Richter scale of incompetence. The adjectives simply don't exist to properly explain their level of stupidity. They don't understand anything about aircraft:
- Maintenance
- Operations
- Customer Service
- Aerodynamics
- Public image
- Logistics
- Business
- International Relations
- Australia
- Weather
And the list is unending. It is embarrassing being associated with these complete titanic fools.
As I said in an Engagement Survey once when asked to explain how I felt about management I said something along the lines of:
' If I saw the Board and Executive Management Team on fire, and it were at all possible to do so, I would race to the nearest Petrol Station, fill up the largest tank I could and from a safe distance pump as much fuel on them as I possibly could. Their incompetence is quite simply indescribable and unless someone physically terminates them as a service to the Company, or they resign and suicide, then these surveys are a waste of time because the Company we all joined because we loved everything Qantas stood for, will, to all intents and purposes, cease to exist.'
I think I wrote that in about '05. It has taken them longer to kill it than I originally thought, but they may be doing a more thorough job....
Flyboats,
You have fallen for a line of logical reasoning that is false. Take the statement 'all Boeing 737s are aircraft'. From this you cannot reverse the statement to get 'all aircraft are 737s'. Similarly, to be recognised by a professional organisation as an engineer does not mean that if you are not recognised by that body, you are not an engineer. So, more correctly 'in the modern vernacular', if you say you are an engineer, it may mean that you have an engineering degree, or it might mean that you are in one of the other recognised disciplines recognised as engineers.
Your statement that licenced aircraft engineers are trying to be something they are not is false. An engineer that has gone to university and obtained a tertiary qualification is a different species of engineer to a licenced engineer. The term 'engineer' predates the tertiary qualification. You brush off the reference to military engineers, when in fact, they were the 'first' engineers. The term 'civil engineer' was developed to differentiate the discipline from the established use of the term. The soldiers you describe are very much engineers. Sappers in the Royal Corps of Engineers are trained as military engineers, then have another specialty to do some of the tasks you mention.
'Got to love the Brits and their titles', well, they also invented the language we use (edit: yes, I know many of the words are borrowed or derived from other languages). There are plenty of words in the English language that have nuances and different meanings determined by context.
I note with interest that you to point out my thinking is 'black and white'. Perhaps you should reflect back on what your argument is: engineering degree equals engineer, no engineering degree means not an engineer. It is this argument that is black and white, and wrong.
Now, this web site is a professional pilots rumour network. I am a professional, are you? Interested in what your thoughts are regarding use of the word 'professional'
You have fallen for a line of logical reasoning that is false. Take the statement 'all Boeing 737s are aircraft'. From this you cannot reverse the statement to get 'all aircraft are 737s'. Similarly, to be recognised by a professional organisation as an engineer does not mean that if you are not recognised by that body, you are not an engineer. So, more correctly 'in the modern vernacular', if you say you are an engineer, it may mean that you have an engineering degree, or it might mean that you are in one of the other recognised disciplines recognised as engineers.
Your statement that licenced aircraft engineers are trying to be something they are not is false. An engineer that has gone to university and obtained a tertiary qualification is a different species of engineer to a licenced engineer. The term 'engineer' predates the tertiary qualification. You brush off the reference to military engineers, when in fact, they were the 'first' engineers. The term 'civil engineer' was developed to differentiate the discipline from the established use of the term. The soldiers you describe are very much engineers. Sappers in the Royal Corps of Engineers are trained as military engineers, then have another specialty to do some of the tasks you mention.
'Got to love the Brits and their titles', well, they also invented the language we use (edit: yes, I know many of the words are borrowed or derived from other languages). There are plenty of words in the English language that have nuances and different meanings determined by context.
I note with interest that you to point out my thinking is 'black and white'. Perhaps you should reflect back on what your argument is: engineering degree equals engineer, no engineering degree means not an engineer. It is this argument that is black and white, and wrong.
Now, this web site is a professional pilots rumour network. I am a professional, are you? Interested in what your thoughts are regarding use of the word 'professional'
Last edited by theheadmaster; 21st May 2014 at 09:38.
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Congrats FBN, we have a new winner ... for the most amount of utter ****e in one post!
I am a degree qualified, professional engineer who worked in the industry prior to aviation. I have no problem calling LAMEs ''engineers" and if anyone should be offended by this it should be me. Your post demonstrates not only do you know nothing about LAMEs, you also know nothing about professional engineers.
Yeah, 'cause those uni kids never party at all. Or maybe you didn't, sitting at your desk for endless hours of study, but didn't you wonder what all the noise was about?
I can tell you that working as a grade 1 engineer your daily workload involved hardly any actual 'engineering'. Not only that, you also relied very heavily on what were our equivalent of LAMEs (we called them Technical Officers and Assistant Technical Officers - no degree, generally trades background) for technical advice as they had the experience and knowledge of implementing work methods and practices. A good TO would make or break the job, much more so than a good engineer.
My classmates who ended up in various industries have all had fairly similar roles. And as they've progressed up through the ranks over the years to become project managers, compliance audit managers etc they do absolutely no engineering. They manage budgets, manpower, and other non-technical aspects of the job. Apparently it's ok to call them engineers.
Ask any LAME how many of their classmates still know which way to turn a spanner.
How long do you think it's been since LC has had his slide rule out? And unless you've been heavily drinking, why would you hold up anyone on the Qantas Board as a paragon of engineering virtue? At the moment they're having trouble tying up their own shoelaces.
I am a degree qualified, professional engineer who worked in the industry prior to aviation. I have no problem calling LAMEs ''engineers" and if anyone should be offended by this it should be me. Your post demonstrates not only do you know nothing about LAMEs, you also know nothing about professional engineers.
Because they we able to push themselves through the endless hours of study , in late teens early twenties when it was pretty much party time for the Trade boys.
I can tell you that working as a grade 1 engineer your daily workload involved hardly any actual 'engineering'. Not only that, you also relied very heavily on what were our equivalent of LAMEs (we called them Technical Officers and Assistant Technical Officers - no degree, generally trades background) for technical advice as they had the experience and knowledge of implementing work methods and practices. A good TO would make or break the job, much more so than a good engineer.
My classmates who ended up in various industries have all had fairly similar roles. And as they've progressed up through the ranks over the years to become project managers, compliance audit managers etc they do absolutely no engineering. They manage budgets, manpower, and other non-technical aspects of the job. Apparently it's ok to call them engineers.
Ask any LAME how many of their classmates still know which way to turn a spanner.
Notice Clifford who is Professional Eng is your Chairman don't see too many self called aircraft spanner men "engineers" gracing the boardrooms.
Bottums Up
From the Australian Oxford English Dictionary...
engineer ˌendʒə'nɪə
→ n.
1. a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional.
2. = civil engineer.
3.
a person who makes or is in charge of engines.
a person who maintains machines; a mechanic; a technician.
4. (US) an engine driver.
5. a person who designs and constructs military works; a soldier trained for this purpose.
6. [foll. by of] a skilful or artful contriver (the engineer of our misfortunes).
→ v.
1. tr. arrange, contrive, or bring about, especially artfully.
2. intr. act as an engineer.
3. tr. construct or manage as an engineer.
Middle English via Old French engigneor from medieval Latin ingeniator -oris, from ingeniare (as engine)
→ n.
1. a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional.
2. = civil engineer.
3.
a person who makes or is in charge of engines.
a person who maintains machines; a mechanic; a technician.
4. (US) an engine driver.
5. a person who designs and constructs military works; a soldier trained for this purpose.
6. [foll. by of] a skilful or artful contriver (the engineer of our misfortunes).
→ v.
1. tr. arrange, contrive, or bring about, especially artfully.
2. intr. act as an engineer.
3. tr. construct or manage as an engineer.
Middle English via Old French engigneor from medieval Latin ingeniator -oris, from ingeniare (as engine)
We can live without snide, elitist remarks that appear to be trying to create division.
As an airline pilot, I appreciate the advice and suffer no fools approach of licenced aircraft engineers. While the Qantas ones at time require patience, I'd rather have Qantas' worst sign me out than others best. Particularly overseas.
Cheers to all the professional aircraft engineers out there, licensed or not.
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Please
Flyboat North
Is a Troll.
He is Very well spoken, can come up with some seemingly solid arguments, will generally be polite, and will write pages upon pages of what could at the first glance appear to be a well founded argument.
But at the end of the day Flyboat North
IS. A. TROLL
DIVOSH!.
P.S. For those in any doubt, refer to his comments either here:
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-000-plus.html
or here:
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...t-program.html
Is a Troll.
He is Very well spoken, can come up with some seemingly solid arguments, will generally be polite, and will write pages upon pages of what could at the first glance appear to be a well founded argument.
But at the end of the day Flyboat North
IS. A. TROLL
DIVOSH!.
P.S. For those in any doubt, refer to his comments either here:
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...-000-plus.html
or here:
http://www.pprune.org/pacific-genera...t-program.html