Qantas Engineering redundances - Advice required!!!
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Can't outsource our jobs.WTF is Brissy heavy then?
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Firstly Ewan come along on Wed and try and spread your "lets cave in now" attitude. If the majority agree, we will stand back and let the place be decimated.
Yes I know it does but these businesses don't have EBA's or Agreements with the same or similar job security clauses as ours. We spent all last week debating it in Fed Court with the uberpriced Qantas legal team. I know Romulus you will understand this a little.
Our clause is explicit, it protects us by stating that Qantas will "retain the existing job functions of employees covered by the Agreement". They can slip the net by "retaining" in a different State (Bne Heavy) so long as the Employees are also covered by the Agreement. Anything else seems to be pushing the boundaries too far.
Why not?
Happens every day in businesses around the country, aviation is no different.
Happens every day in businesses around the country, aviation is no different.
Our clause is explicit, it protects us by stating that Qantas will "retain the existing job functions of employees covered by the Agreement". They can slip the net by "retaining" in a different State (Bne Heavy) so long as the Employees are also covered by the Agreement. Anything else seems to be pushing the boundaries too far.
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EK hub for the 380 maintenance happening as we speak.You know it is going to happen.
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Its not a "lets cave in"attitude its a "lets be realistic" attitude.Sydney is gone,go to Brissy Heavy or any other line port,try Cns or Per or Bne.Hold a meeting and see the reaction from the guys on the floor.We know we are next on the chopping block.The reps know it too.Hopefully some interstate reps can go and report back what the "big picture" is.I am not the minority.
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Originally Posted by fedsec
Yes I know it does but these businesses don't have EBA's or Agreements with the same or similar job security clauses as ours. We spent all last week debating it in Fed Court with the uberpriced Qantas legal team. I know Romulus you will understand this a little.
Our clause is explicit, it protects us by stating that Qantas will "retain the existing job functions of employees covered by the Agreement". They can slip the net by "retaining" in a different State (Bne Heavy) so long as the Employees are also covered by the Agreement. Anything else seems to be pushing the boundaries too far.
Our clause is explicit, it protects us by stating that Qantas will "retain the existing job functions of employees covered by the Agreement". They can slip the net by "retaining" in a different State (Bne Heavy) so long as the Employees are also covered by the Agreement. Anything else seems to be pushing the boundaries too far.
Outcome will be interesting.
Last edited by Romulus; 11th Mar 2013 at 13:11.
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I tend to agree with Ewan..
The fact is 2yrs ago we had more a/c..No company is not going to keep the same amount engineers to service fewer aircraft.If this is your business,would you do it?..
Due to extremely poor business decisions, QF don't have a replacement type for us to move on too, in order to keep our engineers.
So we're stuck with an ever dwindling International operation run by people who are so far out of their depth that its scares the sh*t out of me!..CN is the danger man and whilst he still runs the show - engineering will die a slow death!..He wasn't employed for his Dutch sense of humour!..Look how he destroyed NZ Engineering, which took years rectify..
It is true that delays are the only thing Management will look at!..I don't think OT should be stopped in other ports.Just work strictly to the book and follow their procedures to the letter.As we all know if we all worked to all the bullsh*t procedures they've set out - nothing will fly!..So take that 4 hours to do that check 2 etc...
Then we'll see whose laughing!!
The fact is 2yrs ago we had more a/c..No company is not going to keep the same amount engineers to service fewer aircraft.If this is your business,would you do it?..
Due to extremely poor business decisions, QF don't have a replacement type for us to move on too, in order to keep our engineers.
So we're stuck with an ever dwindling International operation run by people who are so far out of their depth that its scares the sh*t out of me!..CN is the danger man and whilst he still runs the show - engineering will die a slow death!..He wasn't employed for his Dutch sense of humour!..Look how he destroyed NZ Engineering, which took years rectify..
It is true that delays are the only thing Management will look at!..I don't think OT should be stopped in other ports.Just work strictly to the book and follow their procedures to the letter.As we all know if we all worked to all the bullsh*t procedures they've set out - nothing will fly!..So take that 4 hours to do that check 2 etc...
Then we'll see whose laughing!!
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POT100:
By the same token if "my business" was so overstaffed due to less aircraft in operation why would I be offering open slather O/T? Surely the excess in manpower would be more than adequate to cover the current workload?
I tend to agree with Ewan..
The fact is 2yrs ago we had more a/c..No company is not going to keep the same amount engineers to service fewer aircraft.If this is your business,would you do it?..
The fact is 2yrs ago we had more a/c..No company is not going to keep the same amount engineers to service fewer aircraft.If this is your business,would you do it?..
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From what we are hearing the workload has that much of a backlog that the dam wall is going to eventually burst. Checks have currently been extended beyond the 100% mark because they just don't have enough staff.
The ALAEA has formally raised the problems of excessive overtime with management. As you know we are particlarly intersted in collecting this data from members. Qantas are constantly breaching their own policies on fatigue and we think that an airline that has to comply with its own policy would not be able to sack so many people. Problem is that they throw it straight back in our faces by saying "well its your members who are bending the rules". Same comment came from CASA when reported there.
I have said it from the outset. Excessive overtime costs jobs. 4 extra 12 hour shifts is one man's work for a week (yes 8 days on 4/4 cycle I know).
The ALAEA has formally raised the problems of excessive overtime with management. As you know we are particlarly intersted in collecting this data from members. Qantas are constantly breaching their own policies on fatigue and we think that an airline that has to comply with its own policy would not be able to sack so many people. Problem is that they throw it straight back in our faces by saying "well its your members who are bending the rules". Same comment came from CASA when reported there.
I have said it from the outset. Excessive overtime costs jobs. 4 extra 12 hour shifts is one man's work for a week (yes 8 days on 4/4 cycle I know).
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There is no open slather O/T where I am.Just normal run of the mill.That has been my point all along.O/T where I am is done by maybe the same 20 people for the last 20 years.It is not being done at the detriment of other bases.Thanks POT sanity prevails.An international fleet being cut by 50% and predomidently serviced in Sydney equals job losses.Sorry for the bad news.
A380 maintenance in DXB, that has been kept quiet. What about the rumours that EK barely have the capacity to do their own let alone take on 3rd party work?
This also goes along with what superlame said, that they will do what they want anyway regardless of what the EBA says.
This also goes along with what superlame said, that they will do what they want anyway regardless of what the EBA says.
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POT100...
Perhaps the very reason he was employed was because of what he achieved at AirNZ.
He wasn't employed for his Dutch sense of humour!..Look how he destroyed NZ Engineering, which took years rectify..
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Steve, if the eba states clearly that job functions must be retained by engineers covered by the agreement, how can they retrench qantas LAMEs in Sydney while scaling up work carried out by god knows who in LA?
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LAX is a Qantas base so they will try and transfer as much work as they can there (hence the new hangar). They have some token Qantas guys based there so the work is carried out by employees covered by the Agreement. Same as when they shut 245 and moved south.
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But the qf guys in lax are on contract, on local conditions. No one up there gets the terms and conditions of the eba. In fact they are all without a life line surely, there is no way they could just waltz back into a line job in Sydney?
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Well,
From the guys who've been to LAX the last year or two, it's well known to be a "cheapest way to get the maintenance signed off" type of operation. Nothing to do with getting the maintenance "done"
When AirNair gets the mexican guys to turn up at the 50 yard line at 0700 to "perform" all the maintenance on the 380's/744's after working a full nightshift on their own A/C, it surely must be worlds best practice.
All inspection tasks "signed off" with of course NO Defects - these are not allowed. All aided and abetted by AirNair and his lapdogs Storesy and Hey Would. A few more in a long line of former LAME's who are still "on the books" as LAME's because they won't give up the pay and conditions that have been fought for over 50-60 years. Meanwhile, CN states that LAME's are overstocked - if he got rid of these guys off the books who aren't fixing A/C, then there wouldn't be too many.
A current situation,
- There's a grade 15 avionic LAME
- He's got a 380 rating and payment
- He's a former DMM, yet also retains that payment
- He is on the books as a leading hand of a 380 crew
- He's getting paid full shift penalties as if working 24/7 shift
Result,
- He comes to work when he feels
- As he is on the books as a LAME, he will force another
younger/less qualified guy out the door.
- He is actually doing a "managers role" for a completely
different station, so is providing nothing to the crew/section
that he is technically allocated to.
- On a day to day basis he uses none of his aircraft type training
and/or experience.
- He refuses to be taken off the LAME award as it is so much better
and he loves to be the 200k guy and tell everyone!
Don't get me wrong, this guy is a good engineer, highly trained and
extremely competent. Thing is, he is not using any of this knowledge
or experience to fix/maintain A/C.
If he wants to go play manager, then that's fine - no problem. But for
chr**^sakes, make him take a lowly managers wage, he sure isn't earning it as a LAME.
Australian jobs destroyed by these clowns and worse still, the level of safety reduced once again in the name of saving a dollar.
'Safety before schedule' - a completely laughable tagline.
From the guys who've been to LAX the last year or two, it's well known to be a "cheapest way to get the maintenance signed off" type of operation. Nothing to do with getting the maintenance "done"
When AirNair gets the mexican guys to turn up at the 50 yard line at 0700 to "perform" all the maintenance on the 380's/744's after working a full nightshift on their own A/C, it surely must be worlds best practice.
All inspection tasks "signed off" with of course NO Defects - these are not allowed. All aided and abetted by AirNair and his lapdogs Storesy and Hey Would. A few more in a long line of former LAME's who are still "on the books" as LAME's because they won't give up the pay and conditions that have been fought for over 50-60 years. Meanwhile, CN states that LAME's are overstocked - if he got rid of these guys off the books who aren't fixing A/C, then there wouldn't be too many.
A current situation,
- There's a grade 15 avionic LAME
- He's got a 380 rating and payment
- He's a former DMM, yet also retains that payment
- He is on the books as a leading hand of a 380 crew
- He's getting paid full shift penalties as if working 24/7 shift
Result,
- He comes to work when he feels
- As he is on the books as a LAME, he will force another
younger/less qualified guy out the door.
- He is actually doing a "managers role" for a completely
different station, so is providing nothing to the crew/section
that he is technically allocated to.
- On a day to day basis he uses none of his aircraft type training
and/or experience.
- He refuses to be taken off the LAME award as it is so much better
and he loves to be the 200k guy and tell everyone!
Don't get me wrong, this guy is a good engineer, highly trained and
extremely competent. Thing is, he is not using any of this knowledge
or experience to fix/maintain A/C.
If he wants to go play manager, then that's fine - no problem. But for
chr**^sakes, make him take a lowly managers wage, he sure isn't earning it as a LAME.
Australian jobs destroyed by these clowns and worse still, the level of safety reduced once again in the name of saving a dollar.
'Safety before schedule' - a completely laughable tagline.
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They can't just outsource your current jobs.
Get rid of all 3rd party work and let the competition build themselves up. Once again who cares if they use 457's?? Obviously not the Labor government.
Stop training B2's and let them die through attrition. Ramp up Type A training and let the B1 tradies go.
It's all happening as we speak.
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Yes Ngineer. They do have some pretty nasty plans being executed or up the spout. IFE....mmm....yes I remember now, meeting Rowers 2001, Executive member Hey Would trying to convince us all that it was just work on top of what us Qantas Avionic guys could handle. Discussion of this meeting is still debated today, I was questioned about it in the Federal Court last week where we are seeking enforcement of the Job Security clause.
The old ALAEA signed away IFE work years ago.
The old ALAEA signed away IFE work years ago.
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There is no open slather O/T where I am.Just normal run of the mill.That has been my point all along.O/T where I am is done by maybe the same 20 people for the last 20 years.It is not being done at the detriment of other bases.
An international fleet being cut by 50% and predomidently serviced in Sydney equals job losses.Sorry for the bad news.
I would say 99% of the guys on my crew don't believe it is going to make 1 ounce of difference in saving most of the jobs.
Last edited by 1me; 12th Mar 2013 at 02:01.
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Not sure if true but I heard a yarn about someone who was called for O/T after being made redundant .
With leave being knocked back and all the O/T surely it will be tough making a redundancy argument if airframe numbers do not change too much ? SIO sadly may struggle with the determined efforts to pull out of just about everywhere.
With leave being knocked back and all the O/T surely it will be tough making a redundancy argument if airframe numbers do not change too much ? SIO sadly may struggle with the determined efforts to pull out of just about everywhere.
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Yes Ngineer. They do have some pretty nasty plans being executed or up the spout. IFE....mmm....yes I remember now, meeting Rowers 2001, Executive member Hey Would trying to convince us all that it was just work on top of what us Qantas Avionic guys could handle. Discussion of this meeting is still debated today, I was questioned about it in the Federal Court last week where we are seeking enforcement of the Job Security clause.
A bit like when Keith Clark and Brenton Maille tried to convince us that there was this great facility in Avalon that could be used to accomplish a 747 interior reconfig program. 22 months in duration they assured us and then the facility would be shut down.. Oh but hang on we'd like to do a 747-400 interior reconfig program now and once that's complete then we'll shut the facility down.. oh wait a minute you guys in Sydney Heavy are flat-out! We'd like to relieve you of this burden and do "overflow" work at Avalon.. not core work mind you just overflow work.. And now it has just occurred to us that it is not viable to do ANY heavy checks in Sydney. We have built this you beaut multi-bay hangar in Brisvegas to do our 767 work in.. Oh and we have a great facility in Avalon to do the Jumbo work.. Sorry Sydney.