Jetstar pilots fatigued?

[Angle of Attack]

Sorry I should correct i was talking about normal medical certificates not fatigue related ones, I have on a few occasions got certificates for fatigue but not many, however the jet* pilots get all the crappy back of the clock flying these days I guess.

[Flying Spag Monster]

EX 380 get some time up...EK had it in the airbus checklist but gone now for a few years... The trap with flying for an outfit that consistently rosters tiring patterns is that it feels normal after a while. You wake up stuffed, go to work stuffed and to you it becomes normal. Can't ring in and claim fatigue, everyone feels the same right ? ... it's another working day (night).

[shon7]

anybody who is questioned about such a subjective issue WILL feel pressured. If they do feel pressured, they will be more likely to do the duty. That will and has lead to accidents

Not accurate. Only guys wanting to abuse it feel the way you do.
If the call is genuine no one is bothered is they are questioned. Of course if you are wanting to attend a high school reunion, or a parade or get back at the company by calling in fatigued it should be questioned and action taken.


shake your head or leg or whatever you want.

[balance]

Not accurate. Only guys wanting to abuse it feel the way you do.
If the call is genuine no one is bothered is they are questioned. Of course if you are wanting to attend a high school reunion, or a parade or get back at the company by calling in fatigued it should be questioned and action taken.

You still reckon I've misread his post, Bloggs? Somehow, I don't think so.

I was going to respond with how stupid this fella is, but I can see it is rather pointless. All I can hope for is that this bloke never gets a job with an airline, be it on the ground or in the air.

[framer]

Not accurate. Only guys wanting to abuse it feel the way you do.

Absolute rubbish.
Having grown up on a farm working long hours while still at school and having it instilled in me that doing so is a sign of strength, competence and a good work ethic, I feel terrible calling in fatigued even if I'm so stuffed that I am stumbling over my own words. Everyone has been brought up differently and to say

Only guys wanting to abuse it feel the way you do.

is moronic.

[TheWholeEnchilada]

Framer, a quote from the bottom of every PPRuNe page:

Originally Posted by PPRuNe

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".

It is just here to yank peoples chain. Feed the troll at your own peril.

Originally Posted by shon7

airline management positions
8th Mar 2002, 12:59
had posted this in another forum but I am hoping to get some more feedback here. . .. .What is the best way to get into an airline management position- specifically route planning/ development, fleet management etc. What is my best bet? Getting an MBA first or just getting any position with the airline and working my way up.

airline management positions

Originally Posted by shon7

25th Oct 2004, 14:11
Concordia University Aviation MBA
Can anyone give me any information on the Aviation MBA at Concordia in Montreal specific or general.

Have you heard of the program at all?
How is Concordia Ranked as a school?
How is Montreal, Quebec as a place to live and work?
Why do they tout Montreal as the aviation capital of the world?

Any other information that would be helpful.

Thanks,

Shon

Concordia University Aviation MBA

Originally Posted by shon7

Management/ non-line flying jobs in Flight Operations after getting CPL

23rd Jun 2010, 05:20
What kind of management jobs or non-line flying jobs (but still in flight operations) can one try for after a CPL?

Ones I could come up with are

Training
Compliance
Operations Analysis/ FOQA

Management/ non-line flying jobs in Flight Operations after getting CPL

Originally Posted by shon7

MBA recruitment at Singapore, Thai
26th Oct 2010, 02:54
Does anyone know if Singapore Airlines or Thai Airways have MBA recruitment programs for graduates out of business school?

MBA recruitment at Singapore, Thai

[framer]

Ha very interesting...........did you make it into airline management Shon7?

[Icarus2001]

Have you actually done this AoA?? It costs money!

You miserable bugger. A couple of times a year? How much? What is your mental health worth to you?

Maybe remember that as you guys negotiate the new ECA/EBA/

[Hempy]

Jetstar pilots fatigued?

Jetstar pilots can join the club..

[shon7]

Having grown up on a farm working long hours while still at school and having it instilled in me that doing so is a sign of strength, competence and a good work ethic, I feel terrible calling in fatigued even if I'm so stuffed that I am stumbling over my own words.

yeah so all pilots should be given carte blanche because of your little sob story on the farm. If you're not mature enough to make a decision to call in fatigued and to stand by that decision when questioned, you should not be flying.

[mcgrath50]

The whole strength of a Fatigue Risk Management System, is that if a pilot feels fatigued he can call in and be removed from duty, no questions asked, no pressure applied.

If that doesn't happen then, we are in a situation that IS dangerous and goes against the intent of FRMS.

[HF3000]

So,

What does JQ say to you when you report fatigued?

[Stalins ugly Brother]

shon7 is the short name for the 7 inch shlong that hangs from his forehead.

He is a management stooge, please ignore.

[shon7]

oh the games people play when they are unable to deal with reality.
Don't worry. It will sink in. Slowly and gradually.

In the meantime - if you're not mature enough to make a decision to call in fatigued and to stand by that decision when questioned, you should not be flying.

[Ollie Onion]

I've had:

'Your'e not fatigued, your roster pattern doesn't 'score' as fatiguing so you are just tired'

And, more of a worry, from a CRM instructor:

'You can still fly when you are fatigued as long as it doesn't impact the safety of the operation'

When pushed if you could make this judgement when fatigued, he replied:

'well you are meant to be a professional'

I would love to live on a planet where you can ring up when actually fatigued (which I have) and feel no pressure or influence to change you mind because you are just tired. Fact of the matter is though that there will always be skepticism from crewing officers etc as they have been told to keep the show on the road at any cost.

As for the Muppet who complained about paying to see the doctor, are you really saying you would go to work when not fit so as to avoid a $30 doctors bill. Now that is a worry.

[Conductor]

Shon7, I think after Enchilada's post above, the rest of us have a handle on your calibre.

If I may borrow from Adhemar: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.

Next.

[Capn Bloggs]

Originally Posted by Ollie the muppet

As for the Muppet who complained about paying to see the doctor, are you really saying you would go to work when not fit so as to avoid a $30 doctors bill. Now that is a worry.

My point was why should I have to go through that rigmarole just to prove that I was fatigued, especially when I will obviously get a sick certificate anyway? It's not as though the doctor is going to say "You're not fatigued! Gimme $80, and claim it back on tax you malingerer!" Get with the program.

[maui]

For goodness sake people, why all the hand wringing.

"I cannot undertake my rostered duty as I am fatigued, it would be unsafe and unlawful for me to do so."

(choose any one) "you are not fatigued" "you are malingering" you've just had the minimum requied rest, so what's your problem" etc. etc.

"Just to clarify and so I get my Air Safety Report correct, your name is ......., your position is........... I have just advised you that I am unfit for duty and you are advising me that I must operate unfit. Is that correct."

If Yes: "I advise you I will not sign on for this duty, this conversation is now ended."

The solution is in your hands. If they pressure you to do unsafe things you are better off not being there. If they dismiss you, you will get heaps on a wrongful dismissal.

What is the problem girls.

Maui

[waren9]

Trouble is, however you deal with it, there is no allowance for fatigue days in the JQ EBA. To agree to, or allow the use of fatigue days is implicit acknowledgement that fatigue can occur with normal rostering.

If you want to still be paid, you must still apply for and use your own sick leave to cover what could ostensibly be caused by your employers rostering practices.

If I am unfit, I never say why.

[Capt Kremin]

Shon7,

You have been outed. No-one is interested in the opinions of a post pubescent, low-time vagabond troll with delusions of management grandeur.

Go ask Mummy and Daddy to pay for something unrelated to this industry... You are not wanted.