Jetstar pilots fatigued?
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My kids in their early teens attend school, go to the movies & sit at the table for a meal & ensure their phones are off.
They don't need a checklist to alert them to common sense.
Very interesting the ATSB "FINAL" report, I'm sure the FO is relatively relieved it wasn't fully investigated "in house"
MC
They don't need a checklist to alert them to common sense.
Very interesting the ATSB "FINAL" report, I'm sure the FO is relatively relieved it wasn't fully investigated "in house"
MC
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In fact if he was doing his job properly he would have been monitoring the F/Os performance throughout the flight. It was not suggested in the report that the F/O felt pressured to fly home but that he took two controlled rest breaks.
Makes a mockery of telling the pax to turn off their mobile phones due to possible interference with the avionics. Do as I say not as I do!!!
There are so many mitigating factors on top of the one regarding fatigue.
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Where's the landing gear indication in an A320? Report states the F/O scanned the cockpit knowing something wasn't right but couldn't identify the problem?
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Jetstar report is reason to inquire into CASA and carrier | Plane Talking
As usual. It seems Ben Sandilands is the only one in the media not duped by airline media releases.
As usual. It seems Ben Sandilands is the only one in the media not duped by airline media releases.
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Pilot 'texting during landing' | smh.com.au
In the initial response from Jetstar. The airline is quoted as saying both pilots are still flying.
In the interest of safety at the time & under the umbrella of a Just Culture. Wouldn't it have been prudent to withhold from service the pilots till an initial investigation was instigated?
It seems the comments by Jetstar at the time, mislead the traveling public to believe that there were no safety issues.
If I had £*~}Ed up. I would expect any descent safety management system would see me councelled, re trained, cleared, sacked or otherwise before allowing me to strap my backside to one of their jets again and launch.
In the initial response from Jetstar. The airline is quoted as saying both pilots are still flying.
In the interest of safety at the time & under the umbrella of a Just Culture. Wouldn't it have been prudent to withhold from service the pilots till an initial investigation was instigated?
It seems the comments by Jetstar at the time, mislead the traveling public to believe that there were no safety issues.
If I had £*~}Ed up. I would expect any descent safety management system would see me councelled, re trained, cleared, sacked or otherwise before allowing me to strap my backside to one of their jets again and launch.
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Would these be the 'legacy carriers', who's crew enjoy 'unsustainable conditions'? 
In any case there are many legacy (and non-legacy) carriers out there that have done back of the clock flying. Landing after a 16+ hour TOD and crossing multiple time zones, even with time off in the bunk and relief crews in good weather is tough. In my experience, long haul pilots are always fatigued to some extent, and it is simply a matter of managing it as best you can (and knowing your limits).
Perhaps this type of issue never happened in the past because mobile phones did not really come into play until the last decade
... or maybe it was most guys up the front were doing what they were meant to... flying the aircraft - that would be called prioritizing.What's that saying?
Aviate, navigate, communicate. Even if you consider the texting communicating he got it wrong...
There are a lot of issues in this incident, and fatigue was only a small part of it.
Let me ask you this - what would have happened if the Captain had been incapacitated in this incident and there had been other factors at play?? It would seem from an initial analysis that the FO was pretty much overloaded with a reasonably standard approach before he flew the return leg.
What if this had happened at the other end, on the return trip when fatigue had really set in??
You can start wherever you want, but situational awareness was lost here in fairly standard conditions. That flags possible training issues to me. How about following standard procedures - what about the sterile flight deck period - if you're going to break that rule, what other ones are you going be let slip through?
There are so many issues to talk about, and we are seeing it happen time and time again. The problem is it's going to take a royal commission before it gets fixed. And that is the real worry.
BW.
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One small comment from a civvie who has a strong interest in Aviation Safety etc [don't we all ?]
This in one incident that really scares me - it really smacks of a serious lack of appropriate care and attention on the flightdeck. I would expect to read something like this regarding Indonesia or some other part of the world with questionably enforced standards of training and oversight but an Australian Aircraft flying for an Australian Airline with [I presume but could be wrong] Australian pilots ?
The media response from JetStar is media puffery at its finest, secure in the knowledge the proles won't pick up on this one.
To this relatively-uninformed observer the holes in the cheese are lining up more and more frequently and a lost-cost Australian carrier hull loss is inevitable, rather than just possible.
Yet another reason I insist myself and my family fly a full-service carrier but enough now I'm starting to doubt that one also.
This in one incident that really scares me - it really smacks of a serious lack of appropriate care and attention on the flightdeck. I would expect to read something like this regarding Indonesia or some other part of the world with questionably enforced standards of training and oversight but an Australian Aircraft flying for an Australian Airline with [I presume but could be wrong] Australian pilots ?
The media response from JetStar is media puffery at its finest, secure in the knowledge the proles won't pick up on this one.
To this relatively-uninformed observer the holes in the cheese are lining up more and more frequently and a lost-cost Australian carrier hull loss is inevitable, rather than just possible.
Yet another reason I insist myself and my family fly a full-service carrier but enough now I'm starting to doubt that one also.
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My name is Jack..................... and I'm alright, you know why? Because my family and I don't fly low cost carriers either domestic or international.
It costs me a bit more (yes, it really is only a bit more), happy to pay it. Wont fly with carriers who treat their staff like sh!t either.
You take some chances in life, you can't eliminate all risk but these farkers wont be taking me out in Australia's first jet hull loss
It costs me a bit more (yes, it really is only a bit more), happy to pay it. Wont fly with carriers who treat their staff like sh!t either.
You take some chances in life, you can't eliminate all risk but these farkers wont be taking me out in Australia's first jet hull loss
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This in one incident that really scares me
Good lord Jack, won't fly with low cost carriers OR airlines that treat their staff badly. In Australia that pretty much excludes everyone with the exception maybe of Virgin. As for the rest of the world it just about includes all airlines in this day and age.
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Is this really about fatigue? C'mon, no-ones buying that are they?
I'm not saying fatigue isn't an issue, it is for all airline pilots these days and as stated above, long haulers are constantly fatigued, it's part of our job and we are responsible to manage as we see fit. Whether management like it or not.
We can't, though, blame all our shortfalls on fatigue if we expect to maintain credibility.
These guys blew it big time and they aren't the only orange star guys to in recent times, a trend has developed.
I'm not saying fatigue isn't an issue, it is for all airline pilots these days and as stated above, long haulers are constantly fatigued, it's part of our job and we are responsible to manage as we see fit. Whether management like it or not.
We can't, though, blame all our shortfalls on fatigue if we expect to maintain credibility.
These guys blew it big time and they aren't the only orange star guys to in recent times, a trend has developed.
These guys blew it big time and they aren't the only orange star guys to in recent times, a trend has developed.
When the idiots running the joint screw up they pass it off through their media arm as 'best practice' and haul in a massive bonus...
It is bull**** - the whole lot of it. Once again the idiotic management gets away.
And I am NO fan of Geoffstar. But these guys read like 'patsy' to me...
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True that.
It is all bull****, it's barely about flying aeroplanes at all anymore.
To top it off, the office muppets are seemly bulletproof.
You imagine this type of thing going on 30 years ago? What would the reaction of the management back then? Keep in mind that the CEO was probably a pilot back then.
No bull**** excuses accepted in those days.
It is all bull****, it's barely about flying aeroplanes at all anymore.
To top it off, the office muppets are seemly bulletproof.
You imagine this type of thing going on 30 years ago? What would the reaction of the management back then? Keep in mind that the CEO was probably a pilot back then.
No bull**** excuses accepted in those days.
