AUGUST 24th - QANTAS
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The person who comes out of this with the worst reputation is General Cosgrove. The person i and many others followed into East Timor in late 1999 as part of INTERFET was visionary , the person who lead from the front , inspired troops, mixed openly with the troops, stood up for the troops and called us family IS NOT the current person who sits on the Board. He has abandoned his troops, does not inspire them, does not mix with them. I once was inspired and ma now bitterly disappointed in the man he has now become.
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Have heard that 2 board members stormed out of the last meeting disgusted with these plans. I hope Peter was one of them.
The truth will eventually catch up with all of them. I hope the 2 break rank early and expose the truth behind the great big fat lie.
The truth will eventually catch up with all of them. I hope the 2 break rank early and expose the truth behind the great big fat lie.
I say this with full respect to General Peter Cosgrove's previous career in the Armed Forces.
We can all hope he was one of the one's who 'stormed out in disgust', but by his lack of publicly expressed disgust for these plans, he is every bit as evil as the rest of them sitting there on the QF Board.
We can all hope he was one of the one's who 'stormed out in disgust', but by his lack of publicly expressed disgust for these plans, he is every bit as evil as the rest of them sitting there on the QF Board.
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We can all hope he was one of the one's who 'stormed out in disgust', but by his lack of publicly expressed disgust for these plans, he is every bit as evil as the rest of them sitting there on the QF Board.
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Good point Defcon, Joyce may be just a patsy. The Board are certainly lying low in the media at present and leaving him to cop the flak. Team players, obviously 
.
As for General Cosgrove, did he every have much business experience? I thought he was 100% career Army Officer.
Qantas Board of Directors
Leigh Clifford, AO
Alan Joyce
General Peter Cosgrove, AC, MC
Patricia Cross
Richard Goodmanson
Garry Hounsell
Corinne Namblard
Paul Rayner
Dr John Schubert, AO
James Strong, AO
Barbara Ward, AM
. As for General Cosgrove, did he every have much business experience? I thought he was 100% career Army Officer.
Qantas Board of Directors
Leigh Clifford, AO
Alan Joyce
General Peter Cosgrove, AC, MC
Patricia Cross
Richard Goodmanson
Garry Hounsell
Corinne Namblard
Paul Rayner
Dr John Schubert, AO
James Strong, AO
Barbara Ward, AM
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Lets not reserve the judgment for one, there is plenty of grief to go around and ALL are accountable.
People talk about "one voice" and the need for "Board unity" but it is difficult to reconcile the Generals well espoused views with the current situation UNLESS he was one of the ones to walk from that Board meeting. It is about personal integrity and given his long career I would not have thought some pittance of a directors fee would equal a lifetime of integrity building.
Most Directors I would suggest do it for the power and ego and that raises other issues as we have all seen other cases where ego was not matched by intellect.
People talk about "one voice" and the need for "Board unity" but it is difficult to reconcile the Generals well espoused views with the current situation UNLESS he was one of the ones to walk from that Board meeting. It is about personal integrity and given his long career I would not have thought some pittance of a directors fee would equal a lifetime of integrity building.
Most Directors I would suggest do it for the power and ego and that raises other issues as we have all seen other cases where ego was not matched by intellect.
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Not one of them has ever worked as an operational airline employee.
Seriously we have: two lawyers, 2 executive engineers and four beancounters, one airline (Joyce) and one Army (Cos). There aren't even any experienced transport industry execs, let alone aviation ones. Board airline knowledge is presumably limited to finding the Qantas Club and working out how to recline a first class seat without spilling the Grange everywhere.
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People talk about "one voice" and the need for "Board unity" but it is difficult to reconcile the Generals well espoused views with the current situation UNLESS he was one of the ones to walk from that Board meeting. It is about personal integrity and given his long career I would not have thought some pittance of a directors fee would equal a lifetime of integrity building.
The only 2 members of QF in recent years to have a measure of worth or decency, or even a brain were Borghetti and Storie, both of whom bailed the S.S Qantas. They could foresee that there were icebergs on the horizon, unlike the other tools who have sailed the ship straight into iceberg central.
Abandon ship, abandon ship, whoop whoop, grab your life jackets, executives and nupty's last, abandon ship anbandon ship, whoop whoop...
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 19th Aug 2011 at 02:19.
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The passengers still call Australia home - but does Qantas?
The punters have already woken up to other "entities" operating Qantas branded flights & don't approve.
New board, new CEO, new vision, new strategy. Show these clowns the door.
Recently, my husband and I flew to Wellington on Qantas and realised very quickly that it was a Qantas flight in name only.
There were no Aussie accents among the staff and some of the accents over the intercom were so thick none of the passengers knew what was being said.
Oddly, this pseudo-Qantas made me feel slightly unsafe and I don’t usually feel unsettled on airlines from other countries. I think it was because I had bought one thing but been sold another, and when we feel deceived we lose confidence.
No doubt, financial realities may dictate that some routes are outsourced to other organisations, but Qantas needs to understand that the ripple effect of this can be wide, unpredictable and have serious, long-term impact on the brand.
There were no Aussie accents among the staff and some of the accents over the intercom were so thick none of the passengers knew what was being said.
Oddly, this pseudo-Qantas made me feel slightly unsafe and I don’t usually feel unsettled on airlines from other countries. I think it was because I had bought one thing but been sold another, and when we feel deceived we lose confidence.
No doubt, financial realities may dictate that some routes are outsourced to other organisations, but Qantas needs to understand that the ripple effect of this can be wide, unpredictable and have serious, long-term impact on the brand.
New board, new CEO, new vision, new strategy. Show these clowns the door.
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WE ARE THE BLIND 
LED BY THE USELESS 
CONTROLLED BY THE INCOMPETENT 
Every one of the managers who you directly report to, is in line for the chop.
They claim they know nothing about the future of the business and are only conveying the edicts of the people above them.
Ask any of them if they have a five year plan for their respective areas.
I already know the answer you will get.
This to me puts them in a very precarious position.
They are not willing to take a stand against the spiral downwards of Qantas in the future.
They are not managers in any sense of the word, because to manage, they must be aware and respond to what is happening around them, not just throw their hands up in the air, say they don't know what is going on, and submit to what they have been brainwashed into, what they think is, inevitable.
This is happening everywhere in Qantas at the moment.
We are blind, because we have been kept in the dark for so long about the future of Qantas.
We are being led by useless Managers who do not, and are incapable of, Management.
We are being controlled by an incompetent Board who are well out of their depth in the basic decision making which should make our company prosper and flourish.
I call on the Spirit of Qantas Past to help us now.
That is about the only thing which will save our company from the current spate of greed and megalomania.
LED BY THE USELESS CONTROLLED BY THE INCOMPETENT Every one of the managers who you directly report to, is in line for the chop.
They claim they know nothing about the future of the business and are only conveying the edicts of the people above them.
Ask any of them if they have a five year plan for their respective areas.
I already know the answer you will get.
This to me puts them in a very precarious position.
They are not willing to take a stand against the spiral downwards of Qantas in the future.
They are not managers in any sense of the word, because to manage, they must be aware and respond to what is happening around them, not just throw their hands up in the air, say they don't know what is going on, and submit to what they have been brainwashed into, what they think is, inevitable.
This is happening everywhere in Qantas at the moment.
We are blind, because we have been kept in the dark for so long about the future of Qantas.
We are being led by useless Managers who do not, and are incapable of, Management.
We are being controlled by an incompetent Board who are well out of their depth in the basic decision making which should make our company prosper and flourish.
I call on the Spirit of Qantas Past to help us now.
That is about the only thing which will save our company from the current spate of greed and megalomania.
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Does Gen Cosgrove have an email or mail contact publicly available? I searched but no luck.
Having seen the way he has conducted himself in the past, I am sure that he would certainly have some concerns on where things are heading.
And the pay cheque could not be that big!
Having seen the way he has conducted himself in the past, I am sure that he would certainly have some concerns on where things are heading.
And the pay cheque could not be that big!
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AJ sure is one smart cookie. Not !
KGB: Alan Joyce | Kohler, Gottliebsen, Bartholomeusz | Interview | Business Spectator
KGB: Alan Joyce | Kohler, Gottliebsen, Bartholomeusz | Interview | Business Spectator
Robert Gottliebsen: Alan, I ran into an international airline CEO just the other day and I asked him what he thought of your strategies and he said you’re making three mistakes. First, with Jetstar, he said you are not allocating your capital costs correctly because it’s spinning, it’s coming off the back of a Qantas big ordering. Secondly, he said you’re not factoring in the enormous benefit that local airlines get from the feeder, from the overseas; that you can’t just look at overseas airlines on its own, you’ve got look at the totality. And thirdly, his advice was never take on the pilots.
AJ: Well first of all, on the Jetstar comment, I think there have been a lot of conspiracy theories around from a number of different people that we’re not representing the true performance of Jetstar. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have an obligation, and the board has an obligation, to make sure that we’re disclosing appropriate results and not misleading the market in any way. We also have our auditors who have looked and continue to look at our books and have their obligations. So we’re very comfortable with the reporting that we’re making of the various segments.
AJ: Well first of all, on the Jetstar comment, I think there have been a lot of conspiracy theories around from a number of different people that we’re not representing the true performance of Jetstar. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have an obligation, and the board has an obligation, to make sure that we’re disclosing appropriate results and not misleading the market in any way. We also have our auditors who have looked and continue to look at our books and have their obligations. So we’re very comfortable with the reporting that we’re making of the various segments.
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A thought for Qantas middle management lemmings to ponder, the lemmings go over the cliff without parachutes while the keepers of the lemmings will have big fat juicy golden ones. 
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MLC, I am trying to get in touch with Cosgrove, no email available that I can find, but we share the same school (Waverley College) and as we are both old boys, I am going to try and find him thru the old boys union. I intend to put the concerns that most of us share to him and why. To look at that board, to see not ONE technical person on it, makes you wish for the days when all airline boards contained at least one senior Engineer and one senior Pilot. That lot could be on the board of a company selling jam tin labels, and not know the difference. Just a big wa%k for those people, though at least Cosgrove has some idea of reality, more than most I suspect.
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ALEA Fed Sec , perhaps you would like to share youur qualifications to run a business . A tradesman with a licence ? or would you orefer to put up your record running your small Association . How are your financials for this last year ? I hear you ran at a loss , quite a substantial one on your turnover . Thank God you are not running Qantas or any airline , people in glass housesw comes to mind . But Qantas is proffitable old chum , how long befor you bail out on your mates for a political job? ALAEA , never has been never will be a Union .
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Abandoning Oz will not reverse the fortunes of 'Ocker Airways'
Abandoning Oz will not reverse the fortunes of 'Ocker Airways' - The Drum Opinion (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Qantas is on the cusp of at best reverting to a purely domestic airline or at worst going broke. The current CEO, Alan Joyce, was handed a poison chalice when he took on the job.
Faced with falling revenues, despite monopoly or duopoly rights on most long-haul routes, the previous CEO, Geoff Dixon, sought to bully staff, shareholders and the travelling public into accepting a deal that would have seen a leveraged buyout of the airline. A buyout that would have seen the airline go offshore to Shanghai or Beijing.
The deal was a product of the over-heated financial markets, pre-GFC. It was proposed at the height of the private equity boom. Some saw the deal as smoke and mirrors, but clearly not Dixon and the board of Qantas, many of whom are still serving.
The proposed arrangement collapsed, allegedly because a US-based hedge fund manager failed to submit his acceptance in time. Analysts claim that had the deal gone ahead Qantas would have collapsed in 2009 under the weight of debt and a collapsing cash flow.
Announcing another smoke and mirrors deal Joyce has told the market and customers that Qantas is still labouring under debt and that the dubious proposals announced to move offshore will clear this problem for shareholders.
Really! It is unlikely that abandoning Australia will reverse the fortunes of Qantas. Where is the money coming from to fund the offshore airline based somewhere in the region with, we are told, a proposal to buy new aircraft?
Joyce could talk the leg off an iron pot. The blarney flows without the apparent interruption or check of intellect. Joyce gives off an air of desperation; the need to create the impression of future success. Is this being done so that he can apply for other corporate opportunities?
Qantas is in a tail spin and no-one is giving the crew clear instructions as to what is going on, what they should do or what they might be able to do to help avoid a prang.
Retired General Cosgrove is on the board. Surely he appreciates the need to look after the troops, keep them fully informed and maintain morale if the airline is to deliver the standard of service expected. After all it has been the staff of Qantas that has maintained the brand and the faith of the travelling Australian public in the airline.
I started flying commercially in the 1950s, first on DC 3's then DC 4's, Viscount's, DC 6B's, and so on. In flight service was service; nothing very flash, but pleasant and courteous.
Subsequently I would have flown around a million kilometres or more on a range of airlines, many no longer operating. I flew into Afghanistan in the 1980s when Indian Airlines flew on a wing tip from 6,000 metres to the ground in order to avoid stinger missiles and I flew in Africa when aircraft safety standards were not as high as they are today.
About four years ago I decided that I would not fly Qantas again, on grounds of safety and service.
I think what I resented was the false familiarity, increasingly engaged in by some cabin staff. The egalitarian branding of service, that gradually morphed into an attitude that cabin staff were doing a favour by merely doing their job.
Recently I had to break my rule and travelled to Hong Kong on Qantas. I took a jacket with me on board. I asked if I could hang it and was told the hanging space was full. I scrunched it into an overhead locker. On arrival I watched what came out of the coat locker and, yes, they were jackets that the crew laid claim to. The crew on the outwards flight seemed tired and some clearly lacked training in the art of service.
The return flight was no better. The male cabin staff appeared to have come straight out of a shearing shed. Brusqueness coupled with a real or assumed ockerism was apparently de rigueur.
Down the aisle went the gun shearer calling out to no-one in particular "Chinese tea anyone, Chinese tea", yeah, well no thanks mate.
At the end of the flight I gave the bruiser a wan smile and a nod and he looked straight through me. I guess that is fair enough, I was travelling stock class and that was how I had been made to feel; just a dumb sheep on a transporter.
I don't blame the staff or crews. Clearly there is a lack of leadership on the part of the board and senior management. I was in the army myself. Crew morale is poor, it needs lifting; clear guidelines, a sense of direction and maintenance of proper standards of service and behaviour would help.
Qantas clearly has some people of ability. Captain Richard de Crespigny demonstrated this when he saved 466 people in November 2010 on an A380 flight. The No. 2 engine spectacularly failed over the Indonesian island of Batam causing damage to the nacelle, wing, fuel system, landing gear and flight controls. Passengers were fulsome in their praise of the Captain and the manner in which the crew handled the crisis.
No doubt human talent and skills are still to be found amongst Qantas employees, but they are being poorly handled. They constitute the biggest asset Qantas has and they are being treated worse than some of their passengers.
Rather than allowing Joyce's flights of fancy to turn Qantas into a memory, a quavering chimera out at Longreach, the board should pull themselves together and axe him. There are other people available with the talent, not only to run the airline, but to turn its fortunes around on shore.
Bruce Haigh is a retired diplomat and political commentator.
Faced with falling revenues, despite monopoly or duopoly rights on most long-haul routes, the previous CEO, Geoff Dixon, sought to bully staff, shareholders and the travelling public into accepting a deal that would have seen a leveraged buyout of the airline. A buyout that would have seen the airline go offshore to Shanghai or Beijing.
The deal was a product of the over-heated financial markets, pre-GFC. It was proposed at the height of the private equity boom. Some saw the deal as smoke and mirrors, but clearly not Dixon and the board of Qantas, many of whom are still serving.
The proposed arrangement collapsed, allegedly because a US-based hedge fund manager failed to submit his acceptance in time. Analysts claim that had the deal gone ahead Qantas would have collapsed in 2009 under the weight of debt and a collapsing cash flow.
Announcing another smoke and mirrors deal Joyce has told the market and customers that Qantas is still labouring under debt and that the dubious proposals announced to move offshore will clear this problem for shareholders.
Really! It is unlikely that abandoning Australia will reverse the fortunes of Qantas. Where is the money coming from to fund the offshore airline based somewhere in the region with, we are told, a proposal to buy new aircraft?
Joyce could talk the leg off an iron pot. The blarney flows without the apparent interruption or check of intellect. Joyce gives off an air of desperation; the need to create the impression of future success. Is this being done so that he can apply for other corporate opportunities?
Qantas is in a tail spin and no-one is giving the crew clear instructions as to what is going on, what they should do or what they might be able to do to help avoid a prang.
Retired General Cosgrove is on the board. Surely he appreciates the need to look after the troops, keep them fully informed and maintain morale if the airline is to deliver the standard of service expected. After all it has been the staff of Qantas that has maintained the brand and the faith of the travelling Australian public in the airline.
I started flying commercially in the 1950s, first on DC 3's then DC 4's, Viscount's, DC 6B's, and so on. In flight service was service; nothing very flash, but pleasant and courteous.
Subsequently I would have flown around a million kilometres or more on a range of airlines, many no longer operating. I flew into Afghanistan in the 1980s when Indian Airlines flew on a wing tip from 6,000 metres to the ground in order to avoid stinger missiles and I flew in Africa when aircraft safety standards were not as high as they are today.
About four years ago I decided that I would not fly Qantas again, on grounds of safety and service.
I think what I resented was the false familiarity, increasingly engaged in by some cabin staff. The egalitarian branding of service, that gradually morphed into an attitude that cabin staff were doing a favour by merely doing their job.
Recently I had to break my rule and travelled to Hong Kong on Qantas. I took a jacket with me on board. I asked if I could hang it and was told the hanging space was full. I scrunched it into an overhead locker. On arrival I watched what came out of the coat locker and, yes, they were jackets that the crew laid claim to. The crew on the outwards flight seemed tired and some clearly lacked training in the art of service.
The return flight was no better. The male cabin staff appeared to have come straight out of a shearing shed. Brusqueness coupled with a real or assumed ockerism was apparently de rigueur.
Down the aisle went the gun shearer calling out to no-one in particular "Chinese tea anyone, Chinese tea", yeah, well no thanks mate.
At the end of the flight I gave the bruiser a wan smile and a nod and he looked straight through me. I guess that is fair enough, I was travelling stock class and that was how I had been made to feel; just a dumb sheep on a transporter.
I don't blame the staff or crews. Clearly there is a lack of leadership on the part of the board and senior management. I was in the army myself. Crew morale is poor, it needs lifting; clear guidelines, a sense of direction and maintenance of proper standards of service and behaviour would help.
Qantas clearly has some people of ability. Captain Richard de Crespigny demonstrated this when he saved 466 people in November 2010 on an A380 flight. The No. 2 engine spectacularly failed over the Indonesian island of Batam causing damage to the nacelle, wing, fuel system, landing gear and flight controls. Passengers were fulsome in their praise of the Captain and the manner in which the crew handled the crisis.
No doubt human talent and skills are still to be found amongst Qantas employees, but they are being poorly handled. They constitute the biggest asset Qantas has and they are being treated worse than some of their passengers.
Rather than allowing Joyce's flights of fancy to turn Qantas into a memory, a quavering chimera out at Longreach, the board should pull themselves together and axe him. There are other people available with the talent, not only to run the airline, but to turn its fortunes around on shore.
Bruce Haigh is a retired diplomat and political commentator.
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The Board~the Magical Circle Club
The common thread within the board is they are all linked through Allco,Ansett or Rio Tinto.They are on the Qantas board purely through their relationships with each other.Not because of their Aviation expertise or business acumen.
Each directorship with each company earns them around $200k/p.a.Three directorships earns them $600k.Not bad for doing nothing but attend remuneration committee meetings.These people determine our future and the future of one of the last Australian icons.As DF4 suggests they should be pursued for what borders on clinical culpable stupidity
Each directorship with each company earns them around $200k/p.a.Three directorships earns them $600k.Not bad for doing nothing but attend remuneration committee meetings.These people determine our future and the future of one of the last Australian icons.As DF4 suggests they should be pursued for what borders on clinical culpable stupidity
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since the announcement on tuesday about the only info left for clifford to release (via joyce) on 24 august is the name of the new airline and its base.
330 qal flight attendants taking the VCR package, probably 80-90 qcca f/a's to be employed initially to cover shortage created by the crew leaving, another 200 qcca to come with the delivery of the last 2 380's.
around 180-190 lames out the door
any numbers on pilot reductions?
bugger, forgot a 380 being delivered next week. chuck in another 80 qcca employed to cover that. 80-90+200+80= 360-370. more than covers 330 qal out the door.
330 qal flight attendants taking the VCR package, probably 80-90 qcca f/a's to be employed initially to cover shortage created by the crew leaving, another 200 qcca to come with the delivery of the last 2 380's.
around 180-190 lames out the door
any numbers on pilot reductions?
bugger, forgot a 380 being delivered next week. chuck in another 80 qcca employed to cover that. 80-90+200+80= 360-370. more than covers 330 qal out the door.
Dont know if this is the thread for this post but has anyone noticed the lack of Jetstar advertisments in the SMH this week. Could it be that they are not happy with what is been said about them?