AUGUST 24th - QANTAS
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Indamiddle
Well, Initial figures are quoting about 180 Pilots. Nevertheless it will be worse as the shrinkage continues.....
As 180 Pilots leave the bottom of the lists, the next 180 or so seeing their fate rolling towards them like a filthy freight train will nevertheless look towards greener pastures as well.
The LWOP currently offered (as opposed to those in 1989) by corporate Qantas management are archaic and when fully comprehended would more than likely prevent a return to QANTAS Mainline if it still exists!
This is the next travesty and charade of Qantas corporate as they are now also attempting to avoid suitable retrenchment payouts and any compassion or assistance to these Pilot professionals.
Well, Initial figures are quoting about 180 Pilots. Nevertheless it will be worse as the shrinkage continues.....
As 180 Pilots leave the bottom of the lists, the next 180 or so seeing their fate rolling towards them like a filthy freight train will nevertheless look towards greener pastures as well.
The LWOP currently offered (as opposed to those in 1989) by corporate Qantas management are archaic and when fully comprehended would more than likely prevent a return to QANTAS Mainline if it still exists!
This is the next travesty and charade of Qantas corporate as they are now also attempting to avoid suitable retrenchment payouts and any compassion or assistance to these Pilot professionals.
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Cosgrove
We can all hope he was one of the one's who 'stormed out in disgust', but by his lack of publicly expressed disgust for these plans, he is every bit as evil as the rest of them sitting there on the QF Board.
It would be a big step for any board member to hang out the dirty laundry in public. I suspect he is not a happy camper in the boardroom, particularly if he still has affinity with the troops. His lack of public expression doesn't necessarily make him evil; just discrete.
Public airing is not the way of his background, nor his style; he had plenty of opportunity if he chose to do so with some of the government decisions he had to endure as CDF.
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Thanks Teresa for the info.
Does anyone know if the 24 Aug day of infamy is a day where investors can be at? When is the next AGM?
That would be a very interesting day for all concerned.
On a seperat point one long term question to be answered is how the heck is AJ ever going to build trust with staff when he refers to AIPA (and by proxy) pilots the disrespectful names that he has.
Why is it so hard for companies to value their staff? I will never get it.
Does anyone know if the 24 Aug day of infamy is a day where investors can be at? When is the next AGM?
That would be a very interesting day for all concerned.
On a seperat point one long term question to be answered is how the heck is AJ ever going to build trust with staff when he refers to AIPA (and by proxy) pilots the disrespectful names that he has.
Why is it so hard for companies to value their staff? I will never get it.
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Motion to overthrow Qantas Board about to be circulated. Needs 100 shareholders to return by Thursday. Standby for emails from your respective unions but remember this -
Qantas only have one locked bag. Lets make it clear that they should have ordered a dozen.
cheers
Qantas only have one locked bag. Lets make it clear that they should have ordered a dozen.
cheers
Quality, quality, quality: never waver from it, even when you don't see how you can afford to keep it up. When you compromise, you become a commodity and then you die.
— Gary Hirshberg
— Gary Hirshberg
thought for the day.
WRT shareholder call for the resignation of the board.... 100? almost all QFA staff have shares... surely that should not be an issue to arrange. If it is, that would be a concern.
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I suspect Steve has problems with the math or he is running the emotional line.
If every Qantas employee with shares plus every sympathiser signs up and turns up to the required meeting and votes to oust the board, on a one share one vote basis it won't even be close. If anyone thinks that the Qantas side doesn't have the majority shareholders on side in this, they are dreaming. That's the problem here: all the emotional B/S is not balanced by a pragmatic assessment of the reality!
If every Qantas employee with shares plus every sympathiser signs up and turns up to the required meeting and votes to oust the board, on a one share one vote basis it won't even be close. If anyone thinks that the Qantas side doesn't have the majority shareholders on side in this, they are dreaming. That's the problem here: all the emotional B/S is not balanced by a pragmatic assessment of the reality!
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If anyone received today's Business Spectator online, there was a comprehensive interview with Alan Joyce.
He said that the new Asia-based premium carrier's A320s with lie-flatbeds in business class and an economy class that is better than the A380 economy seats, giving the planes a “corporate jet” feel.
I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Anyone remembers OzJet?
The most important thing for business travellers is frequency. Jetstar Asia’s 3 daily flights to Jakarta cannot compete with SQ’s 8. Neither can their double daily services to Hong Kong compete with SQ’s and CX’s 7 each. A three daily service on a low density A320 will not get you corporate customers out of Singapore, QF. Plus who needs your lie-flat beds for 90 min hops to Jakarta or 2 hour hops to Bangkok?
Good luck QF. Putting a better product in the new Asian carrier’s A320 than your longhaul A380 product. Good heavens.
He said that the new Asia-based premium carrier's A320s with lie-flatbeds in business class and an economy class that is better than the A380 economy seats, giving the planes a “corporate jet” feel.
I nearly fell off my chair laughing. Anyone remembers OzJet?
The most important thing for business travellers is frequency. Jetstar Asia’s 3 daily flights to Jakarta cannot compete with SQ’s 8. Neither can their double daily services to Hong Kong compete with SQ’s and CX’s 7 each. A three daily service on a low density A320 will not get you corporate customers out of Singapore, QF. Plus who needs your lie-flat beds for 90 min hops to Jakarta or 2 hour hops to Bangkok?
Good luck QF. Putting a better product in the new Asian carrier’s A320 than your longhaul A380 product. Good heavens.
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Qantas cops heat on Asian push
Qantas cops heat on Asian push
Is someone paying Dick Smith? He should stick to selling tasteless natural peanut butter and breakfast cereal (100% Australian made) which only seems to sell in my Supermarket when it is half price. 
Only three days after that announcement "the market liked" (Q shares today closing today @ $1.45, about 14 cents down on what the market liked last Tuesday) Dick is supporting offshoring Australian jobs but when his peanut butter or bush tucker breakfast cereal is concerned it's 100% Australian made, Go figure......
I believe people are seeing through the huge advertising spend Qantas has produced this week supporting that announcement. This is encouraging, AJ will have to be quick on his feet next week when he announces the group profit results and then doing the usual rounds of the media business programs. 7.30 Report & Lateline should be a cracker next week... In effect, AJ may have kicked an own goal by pulling that surprise announcement last Tuesday as the media have had a whole week to come up with some pretty hard questions.
.
Qantas cops heat on Asian push
BHP Billiton, Westfield, Billabong, News Corporation.
These are homegrown success stories which have spread their wings into overseas markets, bringing back lucrative profits thanks, in part, to Asia's burgeoning middle class.
Their achievements have been celebrated by both the person on the street and in the corridors of power.
But the reaction to Qantas Airways heading down the same path - by setting up new Asian ventures and grabbing a slice of the world's fastest-growing aviation market - has been largely negative.
Unions said Qantas was culling the Flying Kangaroo, while politicians shouted down management for sending jobs offshore and damaging an Australian icon.
Dick Smith, a former chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, says the reaction shows a failure to realise things have changed from the days when Australia had just two airlines and ticket prices were heavily regulated.
He says those running Qantas should be congratulated for at least trying to save the airline's international arm, given the difficulty of the task due to fierce competition and the lower costs of its rivals.
"The fact it is being attacked is just unbelievable," Mr Smith says.
"Everyone buys our companies and we hardly have anything overseas, but we do have ANZ Bank, we do have the Lowy family with Westfield, so there is a few.
"So if Qantas is going to do that, fantastic."
Qantas started off in 1920 as a single airline flying across outback Queensland and the Northern Territory.
It has grown into a collection of operating businesses in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam, which Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce says should be a source of pride for all Australians.
Mr Joyce likens the airline's plans to BHP Billiton operating mines in South Africa or South America, or ANZ running banks in Asia.
If he has his way, two more dots on the map will be added to what is now called the Qantas Group.
In partnership with Japan Airlines and Mitsubishi Corporation, Qantas will set up a new, low-cost carrier in the Land of the Rising Sun called Jetstar Japan.
It also plans to establish a new premium, full-service airline in Asia, with Singapore or Kuala Lumpur regarded as the two most likely locations.
Mr Joyce says these new businesses are key to the survival of its international arm and will protect Qantas's Australian-based workforce.
CBA Institutional Equities transport analysts Matt Crowe and Andre Fromyhr say the new premium carrier, which won't use the Qantas name, is a bold move.
"In effect, Qantas Group is sacrificing its brand for a more competitive cost base," the pair said in a research note dated August 16.
"We believe a competitive cost base will prove more valuable than the Qantas brand."
Australian School of Business brand management lecturer Dean Wilkie says part of the negative reaction is the decision not to use the name Qantas.
"That's probably a sign of current directors not loving the brand as much as what we love what the Qantas brand is," Mr Wilkie says.
As part of the five-year plan to turnaround Qantas' loss-making international operations, Mr Joyce also flagged 1,000 jobs in Australia would go from the airline's pilot, cabin crew, engineering and management ranks.
The redundancies added further fuel to the argument Qantas is "offshoring" jobs, sacking Australian workers and employing Asian-based staff on lower wages and conditions.
Mr Joyce denied the claims, saying the national carrier's plan to cut flights to London, defer Airbus A380 deliveries and retire old aircraft were behind the job losses.
The Australian Council of Trade Unions described the job loss announcement and restructuring plans as one of Qantas's darkest days.
However, official figures paint a bleak picture of Qantas's steady decline in terms of market share.
The national carrier in 1999/00 had 34.4 per cent of the market of passengers heading into and out of Australia, but that had fallen to 19.5 per cent by 2010.
Mr Joyce says Qantas's share of the Asian international market has "collapsed" to 14 per cent.
More than four out of five passengers, or 82 out of every 100, heading overseas now choose to fly with a Qantas rival, he says.
So is the secret to regaining that share by cutting routes and taking planes out of the sky?
Mr Joyce says there's little other choice, given Qantas International is tipped to lose $200 million in 2010/11.
He says the airline remains one of a handful of carriers that fly to all continents except Antarctica.
He's also adamant Qantas still has ambition to fly to as many destinations as possible on its own metal - industry speak for using its own planes rather codeshare with other carriers.
"We still have with our own aircraft, a bigger network that most other airlines around the world do."
But ceding ground to competitors such as Thai Airways, Cathay Pacific and Virgin Atlantic by pulling out of London-Bangkok and London-Hong Kong has done little to suggest Qantas's route network will grow any time soon.
One travel agent said this week the airline was just not flying to enough places people wanted to go to, particularly in Europe.
"In the last 10 years they have taken away all the major routes like Rome and Paris and for us as a travel agent we don't have much option other than to sell Singapore Airlines and Emirates," the travel agent, "Marie", told Brisbane radio station 4BC on Thursday.
"Most people don't want to go via London to get to those other destinations."
Qantas, which is due to release its financial results on Wednesday, has forecast full year underlying profit before tax of between $500 million and $550 million for 2010/11 my bolding
These are homegrown success stories which have spread their wings into overseas markets, bringing back lucrative profits thanks, in part, to Asia's burgeoning middle class.
Their achievements have been celebrated by both the person on the street and in the corridors of power.
But the reaction to Qantas Airways heading down the same path - by setting up new Asian ventures and grabbing a slice of the world's fastest-growing aviation market - has been largely negative.
Unions said Qantas was culling the Flying Kangaroo, while politicians shouted down management for sending jobs offshore and damaging an Australian icon.
Dick Smith, a former chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, says the reaction shows a failure to realise things have changed from the days when Australia had just two airlines and ticket prices were heavily regulated.
He says those running Qantas should be congratulated for at least trying to save the airline's international arm, given the difficulty of the task due to fierce competition and the lower costs of its rivals.
"The fact it is being attacked is just unbelievable," Mr Smith says.
"Everyone buys our companies and we hardly have anything overseas, but we do have ANZ Bank, we do have the Lowy family with Westfield, so there is a few.
"So if Qantas is going to do that, fantastic."
Qantas started off in 1920 as a single airline flying across outback Queensland and the Northern Territory.
It has grown into a collection of operating businesses in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam, which Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce says should be a source of pride for all Australians.
Mr Joyce likens the airline's plans to BHP Billiton operating mines in South Africa or South America, or ANZ running banks in Asia.
If he has his way, two more dots on the map will be added to what is now called the Qantas Group.
In partnership with Japan Airlines and Mitsubishi Corporation, Qantas will set up a new, low-cost carrier in the Land of the Rising Sun called Jetstar Japan.
It also plans to establish a new premium, full-service airline in Asia, with Singapore or Kuala Lumpur regarded as the two most likely locations.
Mr Joyce says these new businesses are key to the survival of its international arm and will protect Qantas's Australian-based workforce.
CBA Institutional Equities transport analysts Matt Crowe and Andre Fromyhr say the new premium carrier, which won't use the Qantas name, is a bold move.
"In effect, Qantas Group is sacrificing its brand for a more competitive cost base," the pair said in a research note dated August 16.
"We believe a competitive cost base will prove more valuable than the Qantas brand."
Australian School of Business brand management lecturer Dean Wilkie says part of the negative reaction is the decision not to use the name Qantas.
"That's probably a sign of current directors not loving the brand as much as what we love what the Qantas brand is," Mr Wilkie says.
As part of the five-year plan to turnaround Qantas' loss-making international operations, Mr Joyce also flagged 1,000 jobs in Australia would go from the airline's pilot, cabin crew, engineering and management ranks.
The redundancies added further fuel to the argument Qantas is "offshoring" jobs, sacking Australian workers and employing Asian-based staff on lower wages and conditions.
Mr Joyce denied the claims, saying the national carrier's plan to cut flights to London, defer Airbus A380 deliveries and retire old aircraft were behind the job losses.
The Australian Council of Trade Unions described the job loss announcement and restructuring plans as one of Qantas's darkest days.
However, official figures paint a bleak picture of Qantas's steady decline in terms of market share.
The national carrier in 1999/00 had 34.4 per cent of the market of passengers heading into and out of Australia, but that had fallen to 19.5 per cent by 2010.
Mr Joyce says Qantas's share of the Asian international market has "collapsed" to 14 per cent.
More than four out of five passengers, or 82 out of every 100, heading overseas now choose to fly with a Qantas rival, he says.
So is the secret to regaining that share by cutting routes and taking planes out of the sky?
Mr Joyce says there's little other choice, given Qantas International is tipped to lose $200 million in 2010/11.
He says the airline remains one of a handful of carriers that fly to all continents except Antarctica.
He's also adamant Qantas still has ambition to fly to as many destinations as possible on its own metal - industry speak for using its own planes rather codeshare with other carriers.
"We still have with our own aircraft, a bigger network that most other airlines around the world do."
But ceding ground to competitors such as Thai Airways, Cathay Pacific and Virgin Atlantic by pulling out of London-Bangkok and London-Hong Kong has done little to suggest Qantas's route network will grow any time soon.
One travel agent said this week the airline was just not flying to enough places people wanted to go to, particularly in Europe.
"In the last 10 years they have taken away all the major routes like Rome and Paris and for us as a travel agent we don't have much option other than to sell Singapore Airlines and Emirates," the travel agent, "Marie", told Brisbane radio station 4BC on Thursday.
"Most people don't want to go via London to get to those other destinations."
Qantas, which is due to release its financial results on Wednesday, has forecast full year underlying profit before tax of between $500 million and $550 million for 2010/11 my bolding
Only three days after that announcement "the market liked" (Q shares today closing today @ $1.45, about 14 cents down on what the market liked last Tuesday) Dick is supporting offshoring Australian jobs but when his peanut butter or bush tucker breakfast cereal is concerned it's 100% Australian made, Go figure......
I believe people are seeing through the huge advertising spend Qantas has produced this week supporting that announcement. This is encouraging, AJ will have to be quick on his feet next week when he announces the group profit results and then doing the usual rounds of the media business programs. 7.30 Report & Lateline should be a cracker next week... In effect, AJ may have kicked an own goal by pulling that surprise announcement last Tuesday as the media have had a whole week to come up with some pretty hard questions.
.
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This hypocrite is unbelievable. I used to look up to this guy. He has obviously sold his soul.
I for one will never buy another Dick Smith product or buy from a Dick Smith store ever again
I for one will never buy another Dick Smith product or buy from a Dick Smith store ever again
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This hypocrite is unbelievable. I used to look up to this guy. He has obviously sold his soul.
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a lot less if you work out the numbers!
1000 staff to go from pilots, cabin crew, engineers and management
180 pilots
330 cabin crew
180 engineers
total 690
must be 310 managers on the way out.
i bet they are not sleeping well
1000 staff to go from pilots, cabin crew, engineers and management
180 pilots
330 cabin crew
180 engineers
total 690
must be 310 managers on the way out.
i bet they are not sleeping well
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The Mainstream News Video of the Week/Month
Lateline 17-08-11
Great stuff, I saved this for last, with all the down moments we all have suffered this week, the ABC got it right by putting Tony Jones onto the Qantas story. Kudos to them for doing so, TJ revels in this stuff. And hey don't you love what Bob K says at the end? Comment of the week IMHO. Steve P got a great punch in as well, in fact all parties did except AJ himself.
The heats on next week, should be an interesting week. A must watch if you haven't seen it but good to see again now this working week has passed. Have a great weekend all.
short flights long nights
All I can say is....WOW!!!!!:
Cant wait for next week.
Cant wait for next week.
Last edited by SOPS; 19th Aug 2011 at 16:03.
Does the boss at Q really think he is going to walk into China. I mean look at the size of some of the chinese players.
China Southern- 422acft
China eastern- 266acft
hainan- 112
Air china- 260
I'm sure the communist party is going to let skippy walk strait in. Good thing they will find plenty of buyers for the 100 or so A320s that will soon be for sale.
I always wonder if there is somewhere else they could stop on the way to europe so they could fly with smaller equipment. Surely a HGW A330 could get from BKK to at least EDDB, Moscow, Ams. Air berlin fly EDDL to Bkk and I am sure they fly with quite dense seating. So why the hell does Q not Get a flight to Berlin a few times a week. I mean there are heaps of destinations that I am sure you could make work.
Any why would Air berlin be a good choice for an alliance member for Q. Not having a dig, but they are like the Virgin Blue of germany. Maybe AJ is going to code share from bkk to dus with them, I'm sure the punters will love paying $2500return to have to buy food on the plane, and the suits will love the Lie flat seating on the A330 (they don't have any on AB) yet they paid more than singa.
Why is Singa the Q base anyhow. I would have thought that there would be more direct traffic to bkk than sin. And it would also put you in range to more places in europe (berlin, Moscow, Copenhagen, AMS). ALso, Bkk has a much nicer airport than SING. If I were JB, bkk would be where i would be looking to get stuck into the Roo route.
China Southern- 422acft
China eastern- 266acft
hainan- 112
Air china- 260
I'm sure the communist party is going to let skippy walk strait in. Good thing they will find plenty of buyers for the 100 or so A320s that will soon be for sale.
I always wonder if there is somewhere else they could stop on the way to europe so they could fly with smaller equipment. Surely a HGW A330 could get from BKK to at least EDDB, Moscow, Ams. Air berlin fly EDDL to Bkk and I am sure they fly with quite dense seating. So why the hell does Q not Get a flight to Berlin a few times a week. I mean there are heaps of destinations that I am sure you could make work.
Any why would Air berlin be a good choice for an alliance member for Q. Not having a dig, but they are like the Virgin Blue of germany. Maybe AJ is going to code share from bkk to dus with them, I'm sure the punters will love paying $2500return to have to buy food on the plane, and the suits will love the Lie flat seating on the A330 (they don't have any on AB) yet they paid more than singa.
Why is Singa the Q base anyhow. I would have thought that there would be more direct traffic to bkk than sin. And it would also put you in range to more places in europe (berlin, Moscow, Copenhagen, AMS). ALso, Bkk has a much nicer airport than SING. If I were JB, bkk would be where i would be looking to get stuck into the Roo route.
Mikk:
Qantas is going to be turned into slow roasted Kangaroo fillets.
This new airline will suck Qantas dry of capital - and when that is completed, and there is no more to give, they will take out the axe and cut the Australian shareholders heads off, most probably by a rights issue or share placement with a Chinese bank or airline.
You can forget the Qantas Sale Act. When the choice is between majority foreign ownership or bankruptcy, the Government will cave in. If the Government tries to refinance Qantas itself, it will be threatened that any attempt will result in the deliberate destruction of Qantas China business.
The smarties think that they will end up owning the Qantas brand. I think the Chinese will. The only thing certain is that the small Australian Qantas shareholders will get skinned alive in the transaction.
..At least that is the way I would play it. I would encourage Qantas to over invest itself in China, then when it is fully extended with its neck stretched taught, I would pull out my axe. Kerry Packer did something like this to Lloyd Williams with Melbourne's Crown Casino. There was over investment. Profits didn't quite follow, and all of a sudden there is Kerry at Lloyds side "helping" him by taking it off his hands.
Does the boss at Q really think he is going to walk into China. I mean look at the size of some of the chinese players.
This new airline will suck Qantas dry of capital - and when that is completed, and there is no more to give, they will take out the axe and cut the Australian shareholders heads off, most probably by a rights issue or share placement with a Chinese bank or airline.
You can forget the Qantas Sale Act. When the choice is between majority foreign ownership or bankruptcy, the Government will cave in. If the Government tries to refinance Qantas itself, it will be threatened that any attempt will result in the deliberate destruction of Qantas China business.
The smarties think that they will end up owning the Qantas brand. I think the Chinese will. The only thing certain is that the small Australian Qantas shareholders will get skinned alive in the transaction.
..At least that is the way I would play it. I would encourage Qantas to over invest itself in China, then when it is fully extended with its neck stretched taught, I would pull out my axe. Kerry Packer did something like this to Lloyd Williams with Melbourne's Crown Casino. There was over investment. Profits didn't quite follow, and all of a sudden there is Kerry at Lloyds side "helping" him by taking it off his hands.