Jetstar to start recruiting
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applied for this J* "group"... not entirely in a serious manner anyway. I will be interested to see if I get a phone call, and if so what the deal is.
55k part time singa based??? LOL don't think so! Well... maybe for an a330 endo then off to the sand with shiny type rating?? Well maybe not, but if I didn't I bet a thousand behind me would!!
55k part time singa based??? LOL don't think so! Well... maybe for an a330 endo then off to the sand with shiny type rating?? Well maybe not, but if I didn't I bet a thousand behind me would!!
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Non-EBA contract legal challenge
Word on the street is that both AIPA and AFAP are formulating a legal challenge to this non-EBA contract of employment.
Anyone have any idea of how quickly a legal response could be expected to be ruled on?
PG
Anyone have any idea of how quickly a legal response could be expected to be ruled on?
PG
I believe a Pilot hiring ban needs to be imposed on the company until this mess is sorted out.
It's akin to trying to plug leaks in a dam wall with your fingers. You plug one, and another develops. It does not take long to run out of fingers.
It's also apparent corporate Australia has declared war on Australians.
I think it's time Australians declared war on the corporate managers. Without us (the mere minions) there would be no consumers and no workers.
While workers can be outsourced, if local consumers are not buying these products, there is no corporation.
It's akin to trying to plug leaks in a dam wall with your fingers. You plug one, and another develops. It does not take long to run out of fingers.
It's also apparent corporate Australia has declared war on Australians.
I think it's time Australians declared war on the corporate managers. Without us (the mere minions) there would be no consumers and no workers.
While workers can be outsourced, if local consumers are not buying these products, there is no corporation.
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There is no legal power allowing anyone to impose a "hiring ban" on every airline in the country? What - that oily little independent with the weird name is going to march into the senate and demand a national hiring freeze because he gets a letter from some angry jetstar pilot reject or pilot union halfwit on his fourth divorce. Get real!
There is actually no IR mess here anyway. It's a pretty simple recruitment process. It works like this -
an employer offers out postions containing a variety of terms and conditons. If you accept a job you agree to be bound by those requirements. Still with me??
Then you acccept the job and appparently spend the rest of your life complaining about how hard done by you are and doing everything you can to run down the employer that you suckholed up to in the interviews and promised your undivided loyalty to! It's a simple, proven process.
But hey - If you dont like those terms and conditions - dont apply. Go away and stop annoying people. Apply for other jobs and keep right on jump starting your clapped out old cessna every morning in between washing your chief pilots car. Its a perosnal decison really! Noone has a gun to your heads on this kids!
There is actually no IR mess here anyway. It's a pretty simple recruitment process. It works like this -
an employer offers out postions containing a variety of terms and conditons. If you accept a job you agree to be bound by those requirements. Still with me??
Then you acccept the job and appparently spend the rest of your life complaining about how hard done by you are and doing everything you can to run down the employer that you suckholed up to in the interviews and promised your undivided loyalty to! It's a simple, proven process.
But hey - If you dont like those terms and conditions - dont apply. Go away and stop annoying people. Apply for other jobs and keep right on jump starting your clapped out old cessna every morning in between washing your chief pilots car. Its a perosnal decison really! Noone has a gun to your heads on this kids!
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victor 2
I think GG was referring to a hiring ban issued by the unions to inform as many pilots as possible that taking a job with that mob is off limits.
I think GG was referring to a hiring ban issued by the unions to inform as many pilots as possible that taking a job with that mob is off limits.
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Yes... But didn't the country vote against "work choices"...
I think the problem here is not those individuals who agreed to the crap conditions but the collective group who vote in eba's, as a group, have to live up to these conditions. And your right it is "kids" they are targeting who have no industry experience to know what the ramifications and effect it is having on the industry as a whole.
Bring on the 1500hr rule senators, if anything we might get some guys with more life experience than daddy's pay cheque.
Where is afap, aipa, fair work Australia on all this?
Would love to see what's next - casual conditions for $12.50/Hr perhaps ... Oh but I can justify it with my shiny new uniform I bought myself.
No wonder our eba is going nowhere ... I'm sure they keep peering over the fence and thinking - ooo look what we "could" be getting away with - we are actually overpaying our staff!!
In any case good luck to those who choose to go down this path, you reap what you sow.
I think the problem here is not those individuals who agreed to the crap conditions but the collective group who vote in eba's, as a group, have to live up to these conditions. And your right it is "kids" they are targeting who have no industry experience to know what the ramifications and effect it is having on the industry as a whole.
Bring on the 1500hr rule senators, if anything we might get some guys with more life experience than daddy's pay cheque.
Where is afap, aipa, fair work Australia on all this?
Would love to see what's next - casual conditions for $12.50/Hr perhaps ... Oh but I can justify it with my shiny new uniform I bought myself.
No wonder our eba is going nowhere ... I'm sure they keep peering over the fence and thinking - ooo look what we "could" be getting away with - we are actually overpaying our staff!!
In any case good luck to those who choose to go down this path, you reap what you sow.
Where is afap, aipa, fair work Australia on all this?
Both AIPA and AFAP inform their membership of happenings via alternate means then PPRUNE, please don't mistake their lack of comment on this site as lack of action on their behalf.
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rmcdonel
Yes I agree. The AFAP has definaftely lifted its game over the last few years and my ealings with them have been positive in all instances. If they can do something they will remember they have to operate within the law. If this package is legal its a done deal.
As said by a previous poster, it is a personal choice and nobody is holding a gun to your head. So if you apply for these positions be prepared to live with it.
SN
Yes I agree. The AFAP has definaftely lifted its game over the last few years and my ealings with them have been positive in all instances. If they can do something they will remember they have to operate within the law. If this package is legal its a done deal.
As said by a previous poster, it is a personal choice and nobody is holding a gun to your head. So if you apply for these positions be prepared to live with it.
SN
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Victor two, how could you miss the point by so much? No one here is dumb enough to apply, we couldn't care less if this were only to impact on the idiots stupid enough to sell themselves to it. However the pilots collective concern should be with how this plan will impact the entire industry. If you honestly believe that Jetstar's abuse of T and C's won't affect you, I really feel sorry for your ignorance.
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victor two, actually there is an IR mess here, assuming that Jetstar is planning to hire pilots on a different contract to the EBA.
The point of an enterprise agreement is that it applies to everyone doing the job at the company, including new hires, and just as the employees are bound by it the company is too. You are right when you accept what a company offers but when you accept it, it is based on your assessment of their offer including how long they agree to keep to it. If the company can arbitrarily change the conditions how can you assess their offer? and why should you be bound by it. 'Sure I said that I would turn up for work on time, but I've changed my mind'.
Regardless of what any newly offered contract says the award is still the minimum standard. If some of the reports on this thread are true then Jetstar are trying to get pilots to sign up below the award standard. It wont stand up in FWA but it will cause lots of angst in the mean time.
The point of an enterprise agreement is that it applies to everyone doing the job at the company, including new hires, and just as the employees are bound by it the company is too. You are right when you accept what a company offers but when you accept it, it is based on your assessment of their offer including how long they agree to keep to it. If the company can arbitrarily change the conditions how can you assess their offer? and why should you be bound by it. 'Sure I said that I would turn up for work on time, but I've changed my mind'.
Regardless of what any newly offered contract says the award is still the minimum standard. If some of the reports on this thread are true then Jetstar are trying to get pilots to sign up below the award standard. It wont stand up in FWA but it will cause lots of angst in the mean time.
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The line in the sand has been drawn!
Actaully I think this is the fourth or fifth line in the sand that has been drawn by JQ pilots.
Did the tide wash away the last one away, or did we just step back and draw a new one because the other line`s in the sand was.......what? I don`t know.
Emplored to join a union late last year, which I did. For what? I am still waiting for AIPA to take action over the Singapore A330 deal.
Yet I am continaully assured that the union`s are not taking this lying down. Yet nothing gets done.
The compnay couldn`t even publish a seniority list on time. But that was not worth the time or effort of the JPC or the union to fight. So now the company has a precedence set where, "well the boys didn`t care about that issue, so we assumed they wouldn`t care about this issue".
If the compnay is not following the letter of the EBA, it should be an issued raised everytime, no matter how small or insignificant. Not just when AIPA or the JPC deem it in thier best interest.
Cadets are not on the EBA, AIPA were looking after them when sh1t first hit the fan. So why were they allowed to work on anything but the EBA. If they couldn`t be accomodated on the EBA, then they don`t work for Jet*. Full stop end of story.
AIPA have got to work out who they are fighting for. And Qantas pilots better wake and realise that what happens at Jet* will have repercussions for themselves. I keep hearing how this is a Jet* problem and JQ pilots must fight this. This could not be more a Qantas problem.
Point of all this. Talk is cheap. Action must be taken. There is not much sand left on the beach. Time for the union`s to come out with thier grand plan of attack. Or have what I have suspected all along is true, there is nothing we can do about it and are just wasting our time. There is plenty of sand in the middle east. We can all go there and draw lines in the sand till the sun sets on our careers.
Actaully I think this is the fourth or fifth line in the sand that has been drawn by JQ pilots.
Did the tide wash away the last one away, or did we just step back and draw a new one because the other line`s in the sand was.......what? I don`t know.
Emplored to join a union late last year, which I did. For what? I am still waiting for AIPA to take action over the Singapore A330 deal.
Yet I am continaully assured that the union`s are not taking this lying down. Yet nothing gets done.
The compnay couldn`t even publish a seniority list on time. But that was not worth the time or effort of the JPC or the union to fight. So now the company has a precedence set where, "well the boys didn`t care about that issue, so we assumed they wouldn`t care about this issue".
If the compnay is not following the letter of the EBA, it should be an issued raised everytime, no matter how small or insignificant. Not just when AIPA or the JPC deem it in thier best interest.
Cadets are not on the EBA, AIPA were looking after them when sh1t first hit the fan. So why were they allowed to work on anything but the EBA. If they couldn`t be accomodated on the EBA, then they don`t work for Jet*. Full stop end of story.
AIPA have got to work out who they are fighting for. And Qantas pilots better wake and realise that what happens at Jet* will have repercussions for themselves. I keep hearing how this is a Jet* problem and JQ pilots must fight this. This could not be more a Qantas problem.
Point of all this. Talk is cheap. Action must be taken. There is not much sand left on the beach. Time for the union`s to come out with thier grand plan of attack. Or have what I have suspected all along is true, there is nothing we can do about it and are just wasting our time. There is plenty of sand in the middle east. We can all go there and draw lines in the sand till the sun sets on our careers.
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And Qantas pilots better wake and realise that what happens at Jet* will have repercussions for themselves. I keep hearing how this is a Jet* problem and JQ pilots must fight this. This could not be more a Qantas problem.
Emplored (sic) to join a union late last year, which I did. For what? I am still waiting for AIPA to take action over the Singapore A330 deal.
Jetstar goes back to the future in a huff __
AIPA email
In what can only be described as typically bizarre, senior Jetstar management decided to walk out of a Jetstar Pilot’s Consultative Committee meeting today, because Jetstar pilots had meekly and only sought to bring industrial representation along to the meeting as well.
As the photograph on AIPA’s website (CLICK HERE) attests, Jetstar would prefer to not be involved in a meeting with union representatives than to discuss its conduct with pilots.
To make matters even weirder, Jetstar pilots informed senior management in writing that they were going to be bringing AIPA and AFAP staff to the meeting and at no time was that challenged - until today.
Of course, the first item on the meeting agenda was a “discussion” about Jetstar’s decision to employ pilots on individual contracts, however that could not occur since Jetstar insisted that industrial representatives vacate the room before the meeting could proceed in a cuddly way between pilots and management. Without hesitation, that demand was met with a polite and unified “no” from the pilots.
So much for consultation. Indeed at a time when the ordinary person would think it quite appropriate for pilots to be able to seek immediate industrial relations assistance Jetstar management prefers to go back 100 years to revisit out dated Union avoidance tactics.
Pilots would be well advised to consider what Jetstar is afraid of to the extent that they cannot stomach a consultative meeting with union representatives in the room. The answer of course is that they are afraid of a united pilot body. Which, ironically Jetstar appears to be creating by its own out dated industrial relations approach.
Today may well mark the day that Jetstar pilots drew a line in the sand. If you want to make sure this line is deep and wide, ensure you and other pilots are members of AIPA.
AIPA email
In what can only be described as typically bizarre, senior Jetstar management decided to walk out of a Jetstar Pilot’s Consultative Committee meeting today, because Jetstar pilots had meekly and only sought to bring industrial representation along to the meeting as well.
As the photograph on AIPA’s website (CLICK HERE) attests, Jetstar would prefer to not be involved in a meeting with union representatives than to discuss its conduct with pilots.
To make matters even weirder, Jetstar pilots informed senior management in writing that they were going to be bringing AIPA and AFAP staff to the meeting and at no time was that challenged - until today.
Of course, the first item on the meeting agenda was a “discussion” about Jetstar’s decision to employ pilots on individual contracts, however that could not occur since Jetstar insisted that industrial representatives vacate the room before the meeting could proceed in a cuddly way between pilots and management. Without hesitation, that demand was met with a polite and unified “no” from the pilots.
So much for consultation. Indeed at a time when the ordinary person would think it quite appropriate for pilots to be able to seek immediate industrial relations assistance Jetstar management prefers to go back 100 years to revisit out dated Union avoidance tactics.
Pilots would be well advised to consider what Jetstar is afraid of to the extent that they cannot stomach a consultative meeting with union representatives in the room. The answer of course is that they are afraid of a united pilot body. Which, ironically Jetstar appears to be creating by its own out dated industrial relations approach.
Today may well mark the day that Jetstar pilots drew a line in the sand. If you want to make sure this line is deep and wide, ensure you and other pilots are members of AIPA.
Now we are starting to see what happens to an airline being run along the lines of "Wall Street" with predictable results to squeeze out more profits pressure test the markets. The only way this behavior will stop is through commercial impact and tighter regulation (senate enquiry). And we all know what happened to Wall Street!
if there is no reaction from JQ then things can only escalate
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holic
You know what? Your dead right. The only thing you neglected to mention is that your in this for you also and have been for a lot longer than the masses this will affect. In fact it was the very first who were in this "just for themselves" that forgot about those starting from "X date forward" that started this very process and we all know who they are.
Edit: metrosmoker, you should have joined long ago, its not cool to just pay as you need. Sorry but that the way it is. The union cannot cover you for an act that predates the date you joined. But i'm sure they'll help where they can anyway.
SN
You know what? Your dead right. The only thing you neglected to mention is that your in this for you also and have been for a lot longer than the masses this will affect. In fact it was the very first who were in this "just for themselves" that forgot about those starting from "X date forward" that started this very process and we all know who they are.
Edit: metrosmoker, you should have joined long ago, its not cool to just pay as you need. Sorry but that the way it is. The union cannot cover you for an act that predates the date you joined. But i'm sure they'll help where they can anyway.
SN
In an interesting twist, the JQ Recruitment lady has been ringing the many applicants yesterday & today that were offered the 'contract' last week wanting to know why they've declined.
To the handfull of drivers (you know who you are), thanks for not accepting.
To the handfull of drivers (you know who you are), thanks for not accepting.
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Holic is 100% correct.
The orange cancer crowd can suffer in your jocks.
You were all warned, yet decided to do it anyway.
You are worried about the scum who will be under cutting you and your sub standard (IMHO) EBA in the very near future, just like you did to the rest of us.
F*^& them and feed them fish heads.
The orange cancer crowd can suffer in your jocks.
You were all warned, yet decided to do it anyway.
You are worried about the scum who will be under cutting you and your sub standard (IMHO) EBA in the very near future, just like you did to the rest of us.
F*^& them and feed them fish heads.