Merged: Senate Inquiry
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...under an Australian contract of employment that meets Australia’s modern award terms and conditions, and all other statutory obligations including tax and superannuation.
Under Jetstar Group’s existing career opportunities for Pilots, Cadets will be employed on a local contract in the country where they are based.
Under Jetstar Group’s existing career opportunities for Pilots, Cadets will be employed on a local contract in the country where they are based.
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McGrath
Yes these are the guys. They were all trained using the piston sim at Oxford Aviation with a handmade cardboard ASI scale with higher speeds handwritten on and 200 knots of wind up the arse. Supposed to have been trained using a professional CRJ Sim but it hadn't arrived.
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The Kelpie
Yes these are the guys. They were all trained using the piston sim at Oxford Aviation with a handmade cardboard ASI scale with higher speeds handwritten on and 200 knots of wind up the arse. Supposed to have been trained using a professional CRJ Sim but it hadn't arrived.
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The Kelpie
That rings true.
They were all trained using the piston sim at Oxford Aviation with a handmade cardboard ASI scale with higher speeds handwritten on and 200 knots of wind up the arse.
If that is true it is absolutely rediculous.
Someone should recreate that and photograph it and post it beside a picture of a real sim in order to give Jo-public an idea of how insane things have become. Just that one visual image depicting how Micky Mouse this is would sway 90% of the travelling public I reckon.
I think if I was asked to train on that I would have to turn and walk out as it would be too embarrassing to be associated with an airline that accepts that as training.
Disregard if it was a joke.
Framer
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Yes they are flying as co-pilots on A320s, B737 Wegetail, C-17, C-130, P3, EVEN THE PRIME MINISTER'S PLANE!!!!!
Jetstar is a RPT carrier, not military, carrying nearly 200 punters, under civil aviation regulations.
Through a leave without pay scheme from our New Zealand business, the arrangement provides our Cadets with the flexibility to return to their original base, at their original position, in the future.
Under Jetstar Group’s existing career opportunities for Pilots, Cadets will be employed on a local contract in the country where they are based.
Under Jetstar Group’s existing career opportunities for Pilots, Cadets will be employed on a local contract in the country where they are based.
the Cadets will be engaged in Jetstar’s Australia business under an Australian contract of employment that meets Australia’s modern award terms and conditions, and all other statutory obligations including tax and superannuation.
And, if you want a real fright, section B.1.2 here.
140k for a 380 Captain, 92k for an F/O and 56k for a S/O. Ask the passengers on the QF32 how much those guys were worth.
And worse, they've finally made it so it's all legal.
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Ecovictim
Maybe they have a new one now, it is a while since I have been there, this was in September/October last year when the first 4 cadets were going through Oxford.
Still think Oxford are the professional outfit they claim to be?
Maybe they have a new one now, it is a while since I have been there, this was in September/October last year when the first 4 cadets were going through Oxford.
Still think Oxford are the professional outfit they claim to be?
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Yes they do the A320 in a full flight simulator in Hong Kong or in this case the UK, but all the multi crew stuff prior was at one stage being done in the sim with the retrofited Cardboard speed scale. Removed when not in use obviously!!
Really easy to verify, ask one of the four cadets!!
Really easy to verify, ask one of the four cadets!!
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Originally Posted by RENURPP
Don't start this RAAF are the best and brightest non sense.
707 in the drink off east coast for starters, might be a while ago, but it was a first and hasn't happened in civil aviation since.
707 in the drink off east coast for starters, might be a while ago, but it was a first and hasn't happened in civil aviation since.
The Captain of the RAAF B707 which crashed was a former instructor of mine. The other two pilots killed were colleagues of mine who both had substantial experience levels. One was a RAAF Flying Instructor. The other already had a command. And I've read the whole accident report.
That is the most spectucularly dumb comparison between an accident which had a very experienced crew on board and had a number of complex contributing causes, and what might happen with a very inexperienced crew.
Originally Posted by TheOrangeStar
You guys really have form.
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I didn't read that as an argument, more a statement. He said don't start this "RAAF are best and brightest non sense." I agree.
There is no comparison between Jetstar and the RAaF training, RAAF training would win hands down. Now if you are comparing the candidates, that's a different issue.
Only omse people apply, and out of those people, RAAF are looking for a specific type. That doesn't necessarily transfer to the best and brightest.
Jetstar are no doubt looking for a specific type to enter into their new deal, and I have no doubt the best and isn't on their agenda either.
I cringe when I here Military guys blowing their own trumpets.
There is no comparison between Jetstar and the RAaF training, RAAF training would win hands down. Now if you are comparing the candidates, that's a different issue.
Only omse people apply, and out of those people, RAAF are looking for a specific type. That doesn't necessarily transfer to the best and brightest.
Jetstar are no doubt looking for a specific type to enter into their new deal, and I have no doubt the best and isn't on their agenda either.
I cringe when I here Military guys blowing their own trumpets.
Ok Ok....Can we take the cadet stuff to another thread? Yes, it's related to the "SENATE INQUIRY" thread, but it deserves its own maybe.
By the way, I just cant wait to operate with this cocky little Gen Y.
Back to the SENATE INQUIRY, and we cant thank Xenophon enough.
By the way, I just cant wait to operate with this cocky little Gen Y.
Back to the SENATE INQUIRY, and we cant thank Xenophon enough.
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full of shiet
McGrath
Yes these are the guys. They were all trained using the piston sim at Oxford Aviation with a handmade cardboard ASI scale with higher speeds handwritten on and 200 knots of wind up the arse. Supposed to have been trained using a professional CRJ Sim but it hadn't arrived.
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The Kelpie
Yes these are the guys. They were all trained using the piston sim at Oxford Aviation with a handmade cardboard ASI scale with higher speeds handwritten on and 200 knots of wind up the arse. Supposed to have been trained using a professional CRJ Sim but it hadn't arrived.
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The Kelpie
Wrong.
You need check your info. I believe the first four were sent to UK for the MCC(73 or CRJ) and type rating. Your source at OAA is a joke anyway, you and him enjoy your lengthy careers flying piston singles.
PS. I don't think that doing a MCC in an FRASCA Is all that bad anyway. QF were doing it through there cadet programs for years. Multi Crew Co-operation courses are all about the crew working together to apply SOPs and build decision making skills. It's not a type rating. Are they worth it though? I don't know, plenty of people flying around without having completed one.. It would be interesting to hear from some people that have completed a course, and how it prepared them for there type rating. Not worth 15k though.
Anyhow, most of the boys that I talk to (jet drivers) 1. Agree that directly into a RHS is
and;2. Don't really care as they aren't taking our jobs. Selfish? Probably, I did the GA thing and if they (cadets) don't want to get paid crap, flying around in GA, then they should get paid accordingly for 6 years.
Why such the detective work to have a crack at Jetstar & OAA every second post? You sound like you were a cadet that didn't make it through oxfords wonderful (sarcasm) skills assessment.
Anyway all this makes for interesting reading when I'm bored. Let the programs destroy themselves, they have been warned enough I say.
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Flava understand the issue about separating the issues.
Just maybe you should not be asked to share a cockpit with these guys and that is the issue that the Senate should focus on.
The attitude shown on this site by some would be grounds to question the appropriateness of some to that entitlement. Then again, perhaps it is the written word compared to the actual skills but that also raises questions about CRM if their words actually piss people off even before any issue has to be dealt with.
I am the father of a rather intelligent Gen Y (mothers genes) but there are occasions when I would like him to share your cockpit to give a severe reality check on life but not when there are 200 innocent people down the back while you sort him out.
This is not their fault but they are victims of their own opportunism and the corporate cultures that created this whole mess.
If we need politicians to sort it out then so be it.
Just maybe you should not be asked to share a cockpit with these guys and that is the issue that the Senate should focus on.
The attitude shown on this site by some would be grounds to question the appropriateness of some to that entitlement. Then again, perhaps it is the written word compared to the actual skills but that also raises questions about CRM if their words actually piss people off even before any issue has to be dealt with.
I am the father of a rather intelligent Gen Y (mothers genes) but there are occasions when I would like him to share your cockpit to give a severe reality check on life but not when there are 200 innocent people down the back while you sort him out.
This is not their fault but they are victims of their own opportunism and the corporate cultures that created this whole mess.
If we need politicians to sort it out then so be it.
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Who would u rather have batting with 10 runs to win off 3 balls against a raging West Indian pace attack, Steve Waugh or Billy Davis, the U/13's Melville Cricket Club No 10 batsmen?
Forgive me if it has been mentioned already, but I see the next hearing is next Thursday 31st March, no details yet......
Keep up the flow of the good oil Kelpie
Keep up the flow of the good oil Kelpie