Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
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Here's an idea ! How about a shareholder motion for the next AGM be put forward to have an independent forensic accountant to have unfettered access to audit qantas in regards to the allegations of cross subsidisation accounting practices, reporting back to unions and management simultaneously. The way I see it, if the management have nothing to hide then the shareholder will have peace of mind that the management are not being uneconomical with the truth and can put to rest union suspicions of cost shifting. The management have made statements that this has not occurred so they should have nothing to lose. The shareholders have nothing to lose except hearing the truth which surely most would want to know. If the management have nothing to hide then this is a win win situation for them. If not, well ................................
Certainly it is a win win situation for shareholder.
What do you all think?
What does it take to get a motion up?
If it doesn't get up then it's almost an admission that there is something to hide !!!!
Certainly it is a win win situation for shareholder.
What do you all think?
What does it take to get a motion up?
If it doesn't get up then it's almost an admission that there is something to hide !!!!
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And which shareholder do you think actually gives a hoot about your petty snivelling?
The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?
They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.
MP
The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?
They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.
MP
And which shareholder do you think actually gives a hoot about your petty snivelling?
The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?
They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.
MP
The large superannuation funds? The investment bankers? The private equity firms?
They look to the day when CASK is back down where it should be.
MP
Hypothetically, it wouldn't be too hard to make Qantas's profit look bad when they have paid cash for aircraft assets they aren't allowed to fly. Like the A330-200s that are 'leased' to Jetstar. Who pays depreciation on that ? It's a huge cost to the bottom line in the reports is it not (I calculated approx $90million/year). Who pays depreciation on the A320's that Qantas owns and lease to Jetstar ?
Take those costs out of the Qantas segment and put them in another segment and it paints a very different picture.
And MP, I'm not so sure they look at the CASK for a measure of performance. I'd say its yield which is the most important.. and what do you know Qantas Domestic segment is absolutely raking in the cash even when lumbered with B734's and B767's and no further investment in widebodies on the way.
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By all means, play whatever cards you have in your hand.
Fact is, the sun is setting.
Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again, and those that move forward will once again bask in the sun.
MP
Fact is, the sun is setting.
Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again, and those that move forward will once again bask in the sun.
MP
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Originally Posted by Me (again)
So, what's your thinking MP ?
"Should Engineers Work to rule" ?
Hey..... ** YOU ** make the farging rules, do you want us to stick to them or not ?
Just noticed that there is no GRN on the oil cans, best I bin the lot ?
"Should Engineers Work to rule" ?
Hey..... ** YOU ** make the farging rules, do you want us to stick to them or not ?
Just noticed that there is no GRN on the oil cans, best I bin the lot ?
See you're back again, so for the third and final time I'll ask you, "Should engineers "work to rule" " ?
Don't worry, I won't bother you again, we all know your answer......
"No, for goodness sake, PLEASE don't work to the stupid rules we make".
So, MP............WHY, WHY, WHY does the company make rules for us to work to if they don't want us to follow them ?
ST
The rules, policies and procedures are made and written by lawyers to protect the management from any oversight on their behalf when a mistake is made by a mere worker.
It's your fault you didn't adhere to the hundreds and hundreds of pages of manuals, policies, procedures, laws, codes of practice.
But of course it could be construed that they don't actually 'want' you to follow the procedures, but they know LAME's especially are more interested in doing the job instead of working out of they don't have to do the job. Because as we all know if we really wanted to, they'd be lucky for us to do 2 hours of productive work a day if we followed everything put in place by the powers that be. The place still works in spite of it all though, not because of it.
It's your fault you didn't adhere to the hundreds and hundreds of pages of manuals, policies, procedures, laws, codes of practice.
But of course it could be construed that they don't actually 'want' you to follow the procedures, but they know LAME's especially are more interested in doing the job instead of working out of they don't have to do the job. Because as we all know if we really wanted to, they'd be lucky for us to do 2 hours of productive work a day if we followed everything put in place by the powers that be. The place still works in spite of it all though, not because of it.
Soon there will be a new day, and the sun will shine brightly again, and those that move forward will once again bask in the sun.
MP
MP
Just hope for yourself that AJ doesn't decide he only wants 4 layers of management instead of the current 5 from bottom to top. Not much loyalty was shown last time to those who bent over backwards to help out the top.
You're amazing Arnold, like several Qantas managers, you have a medical degree and can make a diagnosis without even seeing the person who is sick!
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Here's an idea ! How about a shareholder motion for the next AGM be put forward to have an independent forensic accountant to have unfettered access to audit qantas in regards to the allegations of cross subsidisation accounting practices, reporting back to unions and management simultaneously.
I want answers to the 61 questions we all put together.
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61 Questions?
Ok then, How can we force them to answer them??
Is Senator Nick Xenophen aware of them??, just maybe he can further your hard work with some form of Senate inquiry forcing their response??
ps your tireless work most appreciated! Thanks
Is Senator Nick Xenophen aware of them??, just maybe he can further your hard work with some form of Senate inquiry forcing their response??
ps your tireless work most appreciated! Thanks
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Qantas to meet union chiefs today as IR rows worsen | The Australian
Qantas to meet union chiefs today as IR rows worsen
at Sat 27th Aug 12:09pm AEST
Wow, finally he wants to talk, this is encouraging for all concerned.
Well done SP, your consistent messages always spot in the press no doubt has been a major factor for this sudden turn of events. In my view, Steve has served his members well when it counted in the last two weeks, for those who didn't see this video, the momentum turned against Joyce from this day on and SPs clever remarks hit a home run.
.
Qantas to meet union chiefs today as IR rows worsen
at Sat 27th Aug 12:09pm AEST
QANTAS chief executive Alan Joyce will meet senior union and ACTU officials today as industrial tensions at the airline grow.
Mr Joyce accused unions of wanting to go "back to the bad old days of the bully unions", and said Qantas was facing demands it had not seen before.
But unions called on the management to shelve plans to cut at least 1000 jobs and start an Asian airline, and said the profit result was at odds with claims Qantas International was doing badly.
"Qantas International is being made a scapegoat here to allow Mr Joyce to expand into Asia, offshore business operations and sack 1000 employees," Mr Purvinas said.
AIPA said the profit confirmed the value of the Qantas brand, and cast doubt on the Asian venture amid growing questions about the profitability of Qantas divisions.
But unions called on the management to shelve plans to cut at least 1000 jobs and start an Asian airline, and said the profit result was at odds with claims Qantas International was doing badly.
"Qantas International is being made a scapegoat here to allow Mr Joyce to expand into Asia, offshore business operations and sack 1000 employees," Mr Purvinas said.
AIPA said the profit confirmed the value of the Qantas brand, and cast doubt on the Asian venture amid growing questions about the profitability of Qantas divisions.
.
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Is Senator Nick Xenophen aware of them?
Thread Starter
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I never cease to be amazed at how one lone journalist seems to be able to so accurately sum up the situation within Qantas. Pity a few mainstream Journalists couldn't go to a little more effort than swallow the Qantas PR hook, line and sinker.................
Bravo Mr. Sandilands.
Qantas spends big on self-denigration
August 27, 2011 – 12:44 pm, by Ben Sandilands
The Qantas print media campaign of self-denigration continues at the rate of hundreds of thousands of dollars today.
These are full page ads stating the obvious; that Qantas needs to change, but claiming to be building a ‘stronger Qantas’ while remaining in a state of denial over the management failures that have so badly damaged the carrier.
These failures are painfully obvious in fleet management, network and scheduling, and product and employee engagement. There is seems to be an ideological agenda at the top in Qantas that is not acknowledged in the campaign, yet has led to a restructuring that diminishes the Qantas that it is supposed to strengthen.
Qantas has clearly decided that it cannot afford the costs of past excellence in pilot standards and maintenance. And believes that by basing jets and jobs outside Australia and flying them into and out of this country, and even under some circumstances, within it, with employees paid under Asian terms and conditions, and not attracting Australian superannuation obligations on pay taxed in those countries, it can break what it sees as the unreasonable costs of doing business as an Australian company.
Yet this is a process that will not just de-Australianise the costs, but the product, reducing the very difference Qantas seeks to emphasise in its marketing as the ‘Spirit of Australia.’
One possible rationale for this enormously costly print campaign could be to head off the distinct probability that Senator Nick Xenophon might introduce and gain parliamentary support for a bill banning the rotation of Asia or New Zealand or Pacific Island pilots and flight attendants through services Qantas operates as domestic flights.
Maybe Joyce and his chairman, Leigh Clifford, are looking for a Nauru solution, or maybe a Port Moresby solution, to their Australian pay, superannuation levy and conditions problems. There is after all, more than a hint of ‘barking mad’ in the commentary Qantas has offered on the restructuring, and earlier in the year, to the Senate Inquiry into airline safety and pilot training standards.
The key planks of the Qantas off-shoring agenda are capable of being stopped dead in their tracks by legislation.
Qantas can’t possibly be threatened by a 2.5% pay rise for pilots. But it is threatened by a continuance of some very poor decisions in relation to its full service operations by a management overseen by a board nearly devoid of technical airline operations talent, and drawn from executives better known for their careers in the finance sector.
The only veto on change that has counted, very negatively, in Qantas in recent years has been that exercised by management on the necessary or timely fleet and network and product changes that are needed to keep the company in the hunt against its more relevant competitors.
Those failures have deeply harmed the carrier. Not foreign governments like the wicked Singaporeans who are, surprise, taking their time politely listening to how Qantas wants to finance and control a supposedly majority owned Singaporean based Asian premium brand single aisle operation guaranteed flag carrier rights in its bi-lateral air traffic agreements with other nations.
Ditto the Malaysia and China authorities.
Can we imagine how Qantas would have reacted had Singapore Airlines or China Southern or Malaysia Airlines last week announced that they wanted to finance and control a supposedly 51% owned Australian carrier to exploit the markets between here and say the US?
Oops. We already know the answer to that question. We saw it answered during the Singapore Airlines foray into Air New Zealand/Ansett, and later, when it sought direct access for its carrier.
This morning’s ads even come with a graphic that actually charts the failures of its management. This isn’t about unfair competition, or greedy unproductive workers, but an overpaid underperforming management that wants us to believe they are on about something called the ‘Spirit of Australia’ when they are really on about cutting out the costs of flight and maintenance excellence, the very foundations of the Qantas brand value.
This Qantas campaign, aimed at the very section of its work force that it needs to engage, is like the lunacy of the Australian retailers campaign in the new year against on-line sales. All that campaign against e-Bay and Amazon and other on-line commerce portals did was remind consumers how uncompetitive the major Australian retailers had become, and how easy it was to buy better on-line. The solution so intelligently argued by the likes of Gerry Harvey was to try promote a new tax. What were they thinking?
Qantas has totally lost the plot when it come to its international operations. Fairfax Business Day columnist Ian Verrender has a very pertinent column on this lunacy this morning.
Let’s assume that Qantas really did lose $216 million on its full service international business last year. That loss, while undesirable, was an integral part of the total product offering that made Qantas domestic and Qantas Frequent Flyer the successes that they are.
Reducing the attractiveness of international is never going to make it, or the rest of Qantas, stronger. But maybe Qantas no longer cares, and this is just a charade while it pursues the low cost trans border business model is sees as the big earner of the future. The Jetstar franchise is a great business model at a number of levels, but not when it gets caught flying indentured Asian flight attendants around the Australian domestic network at the end of 20 hour shifts that left them too exhausted to continue.
Not when it tries on dodgy pilot schemes in which heavily indebted cadets were supposed to be paid and taxed in NZ dollars, but live and work in Australia.
The restructuring announced by Joyce is like performing a frontal lobotomy on the carrier. Somehow it thinks that by severing half of its London capacity to gift those passengers to unpopular partner British Airways is going to have no impact on the rest of its operations.
It’s like thinking that punting full service customers onto Jetstar flights is going to stop them trying Virgin Australia, which will sell everything from discount to full service options on all of it flights.
Doesn’t Qantas management understand that when it tries to hand over customers to another carrier, half way around the world, they can still get Qantas points by flying all the way on Cathay Pacific, without changing aircraft, and without back tracking out of Heathrow to get to Paris and other European cities.
Doesn’t Qantas understand that instead of meekly accepting outrageous five hour long connections at Bangkok Airport to then experience the inferior and distinctly un-Australian ambience of a BA flight that they might defect, like so many already have, to the single airline offerings of Emirates and Singapore Airlines?
Qantas has set out to vilify its pilots over a 2.5% pay claim and carries on about so called perks when business class passengers are routinely telling Plane Talking that Jetstar employees in uniform are occupying seats in the same cabin for positioning to other parts of the Jetstar network. Qantas management’s answer to dismal fleet planning is to junk four aged 744s and 1000 jobs that supported half of its capacity on the routes between Australia and London, and enrich the competition.
But it hasn’t announced anything that will recruit new Australian customers, win back the lost legions, nor even keep those who have remained loyal.
This is woefully inadequate. How much longer, and at what cost, will this continue?
August 27, 2011 – 12:44 pm, by Ben Sandilands
The Qantas print media campaign of self-denigration continues at the rate of hundreds of thousands of dollars today.
These are full page ads stating the obvious; that Qantas needs to change, but claiming to be building a ‘stronger Qantas’ while remaining in a state of denial over the management failures that have so badly damaged the carrier.
These failures are painfully obvious in fleet management, network and scheduling, and product and employee engagement. There is seems to be an ideological agenda at the top in Qantas that is not acknowledged in the campaign, yet has led to a restructuring that diminishes the Qantas that it is supposed to strengthen.
Qantas has clearly decided that it cannot afford the costs of past excellence in pilot standards and maintenance. And believes that by basing jets and jobs outside Australia and flying them into and out of this country, and even under some circumstances, within it, with employees paid under Asian terms and conditions, and not attracting Australian superannuation obligations on pay taxed in those countries, it can break what it sees as the unreasonable costs of doing business as an Australian company.
Yet this is a process that will not just de-Australianise the costs, but the product, reducing the very difference Qantas seeks to emphasise in its marketing as the ‘Spirit of Australia.’
One possible rationale for this enormously costly print campaign could be to head off the distinct probability that Senator Nick Xenophon might introduce and gain parliamentary support for a bill banning the rotation of Asia or New Zealand or Pacific Island pilots and flight attendants through services Qantas operates as domestic flights.
Maybe Joyce and his chairman, Leigh Clifford, are looking for a Nauru solution, or maybe a Port Moresby solution, to their Australian pay, superannuation levy and conditions problems. There is after all, more than a hint of ‘barking mad’ in the commentary Qantas has offered on the restructuring, and earlier in the year, to the Senate Inquiry into airline safety and pilot training standards.
The key planks of the Qantas off-shoring agenda are capable of being stopped dead in their tracks by legislation.
Qantas can’t possibly be threatened by a 2.5% pay rise for pilots. But it is threatened by a continuance of some very poor decisions in relation to its full service operations by a management overseen by a board nearly devoid of technical airline operations talent, and drawn from executives better known for their careers in the finance sector.
The only veto on change that has counted, very negatively, in Qantas in recent years has been that exercised by management on the necessary or timely fleet and network and product changes that are needed to keep the company in the hunt against its more relevant competitors.
Those failures have deeply harmed the carrier. Not foreign governments like the wicked Singaporeans who are, surprise, taking their time politely listening to how Qantas wants to finance and control a supposedly majority owned Singaporean based Asian premium brand single aisle operation guaranteed flag carrier rights in its bi-lateral air traffic agreements with other nations.
Ditto the Malaysia and China authorities.
Can we imagine how Qantas would have reacted had Singapore Airlines or China Southern or Malaysia Airlines last week announced that they wanted to finance and control a supposedly 51% owned Australian carrier to exploit the markets between here and say the US?
Oops. We already know the answer to that question. We saw it answered during the Singapore Airlines foray into Air New Zealand/Ansett, and later, when it sought direct access for its carrier.
This morning’s ads even come with a graphic that actually charts the failures of its management. This isn’t about unfair competition, or greedy unproductive workers, but an overpaid underperforming management that wants us to believe they are on about something called the ‘Spirit of Australia’ when they are really on about cutting out the costs of flight and maintenance excellence, the very foundations of the Qantas brand value.
This Qantas campaign, aimed at the very section of its work force that it needs to engage, is like the lunacy of the Australian retailers campaign in the new year against on-line sales. All that campaign against e-Bay and Amazon and other on-line commerce portals did was remind consumers how uncompetitive the major Australian retailers had become, and how easy it was to buy better on-line. The solution so intelligently argued by the likes of Gerry Harvey was to try promote a new tax. What were they thinking?
Qantas has totally lost the plot when it come to its international operations. Fairfax Business Day columnist Ian Verrender has a very pertinent column on this lunacy this morning.
Let’s assume that Qantas really did lose $216 million on its full service international business last year. That loss, while undesirable, was an integral part of the total product offering that made Qantas domestic and Qantas Frequent Flyer the successes that they are.
Reducing the attractiveness of international is never going to make it, or the rest of Qantas, stronger. But maybe Qantas no longer cares, and this is just a charade while it pursues the low cost trans border business model is sees as the big earner of the future. The Jetstar franchise is a great business model at a number of levels, but not when it gets caught flying indentured Asian flight attendants around the Australian domestic network at the end of 20 hour shifts that left them too exhausted to continue.
Not when it tries on dodgy pilot schemes in which heavily indebted cadets were supposed to be paid and taxed in NZ dollars, but live and work in Australia.
The restructuring announced by Joyce is like performing a frontal lobotomy on the carrier. Somehow it thinks that by severing half of its London capacity to gift those passengers to unpopular partner British Airways is going to have no impact on the rest of its operations.
It’s like thinking that punting full service customers onto Jetstar flights is going to stop them trying Virgin Australia, which will sell everything from discount to full service options on all of it flights.
Doesn’t Qantas management understand that when it tries to hand over customers to another carrier, half way around the world, they can still get Qantas points by flying all the way on Cathay Pacific, without changing aircraft, and without back tracking out of Heathrow to get to Paris and other European cities.
Doesn’t Qantas understand that instead of meekly accepting outrageous five hour long connections at Bangkok Airport to then experience the inferior and distinctly un-Australian ambience of a BA flight that they might defect, like so many already have, to the single airline offerings of Emirates and Singapore Airlines?
Qantas has set out to vilify its pilots over a 2.5% pay claim and carries on about so called perks when business class passengers are routinely telling Plane Talking that Jetstar employees in uniform are occupying seats in the same cabin for positioning to other parts of the Jetstar network. Qantas management’s answer to dismal fleet planning is to junk four aged 744s and 1000 jobs that supported half of its capacity on the routes between Australia and London, and enrich the competition.
But it hasn’t announced anything that will recruit new Australian customers, win back the lost legions, nor even keep those who have remained loyal.
This is woefully inadequate. How much longer, and at what cost, will this continue?
Bravo Mr. Sandilands.