Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin

[the rim]

back the truck up

have some of you guys had your head in the sand for years or what,dont you remember about eight or more years ago the ALAEA had this fight with ALL the airlines that operated domestic.They went to court had bill boards and bumper stickers........and stated in the media that it was not that the pilots could not do a pre-flt check,but it was better to have BOTH do it one for airmanship and the other for airworthyness,come on its not between us and the pilots,we are in this together,oh by the way jet* and virgin have a lame-less tarmac now.......I dont agree just stating a fact....dont forget what happened in the past

[airsupport]

Steve P,

PLEASE tell me that this is NOT true, that QF are NOT now going down the road of doing turnrounds at major bases with no LAMES.

As you know I was an Aussie LAME for some 40 years, now retired though and was never with QF, however my Family still fly extensively with QF and I will worry for their safety IF this starts.

I have worked with and flown with so many great Aussie Pilots all over the World, although most of them are probably retired now too, and I am sure 100% of them would be against this idea.

I will never forget a turnround I was doing here in BNE many years ago on a B737, this First Officer started following me around asking questions while I was trying to do my job, then the Captain came up behind us and asked me was I Licenced on the B737, I answered him that yes I was Engine and Airframes, then he asked how much training did that involve, and I replied (from memory) something like 6 weeks Airframe and 4 weeks Engine theory schooling plus practical training, the Captain then said this guy (the F/O) had to watch videos for a few hours, and told the F/O to f&%k off up to the cockpit and leave me alone to do my job.

Anyone can miss things, however the safest turnround must be if you have at least one qualified Pilot AND 1 qualified LAME doing independent checks.

Best regards,

David.

airsupport.

[Jet-A-One]

This is what we need.

Click the link and sign the petition.

QANTAS Pilots

Then cut and paste it into an email and send to all your friends and relatives.

[Nassensteins Monster]

Awesome idea. Engineers need to do the same.

A few minor problems with the Qantas Pilots website:
1. To whom will the petition be presented? When there are how many signatures? Or on what date?
2. Under "Contact Us" you guys need an email address.
3. Make the point that you pay a little extra for your Qantas ticket for a reason: the reputation and professionalism of the airline's pilots. Remove the Qantas pilot and you remove part of the reason for paying a premium.
4. Counter AJ's "outrageous" claims with management's "outrageous" claims. Any pilots etc out there with some relevant suggestions? Counter "rogue" pilots union with "rogue" management. Suggestions: cargo cartel, out of control bonuses, creative accountancy, failure to buy 777's, buying A330s with incorrect cabin config then spending $M's reconfiguring, under-utilisation of fleet, no QF services to certain destinations, buying unproven & ultimately unreliable IFE... further suggestions anyone?

[framer]

the Captain then said this guy (the F/O) had to watch videos for a few hours, and told the F/O to f&%k off up to the cockpit and leave me alone to do my job.

What a tool.
Glad there aren't many Captains like that around now days. Airsupport, did you tell the captain that the f/o can stay? That it was nice to see someone trying to learn more about their a/c from an expert and at the same time getting to know the people they work with?
I fixed/maintained jets for nearly a decade before I took my first flying lesson so was well aware when I got an F/O gig on the 737 that the LAMES had a lot to teach me about that particular a/c type. And when I asked them questions, they were keen to share their knowledge.
If you were too busy a simple "sorry mate, I've gotta keep movin and haven't the time to chat today" would have sorted it yeah?

attitude attitude attitude

[airsupport]

What a tool.
Glad there aren't many Captains like that around now days. Airsupport, did you tell the captain that the f/o can stay? That it was nice to see someone trying to learn more about their a/c from an expert and at the same time getting to know the people they work with?
I fixed/maintained jets for nearly a decade before I took my first flying lesson so was well aware when I got an F/O gig on the 737 that the LAMES had a lot to teach me about that particular a/c type. And when I asked them questions, they were keen to share their knowledge.
If you were too busy a simple "sorry mate, I've gotta keep movin and haven't the time to chat today" would have sorted it yeah?

attitude attitude attitude

Did you even read what I said.

The F/O started following me around while I was doing my preflight/turnround and asking me questions (instead of doing his job preparing the cockpit while the Captain was doing his preflight), I was answering his questions until the Captain stepped in.

You seriously think I should have told the Captain to leave the F/O, who was NOT doing his job, alone?

[DirectAnywhere]

Thread drift but it depends on what sort of questions he was asking.

If both you and the F/O had a few minutes spare and he was asking questions to try and increase his own knowledge base then that should be encouraged.

If the F/O was being a tool and trying to show he knew more than you then he should have been booted back up to the flight deck sharpish.

[airsupport]

If both you and the F/O had a few minutes spare and he was asking questions to try and increase his own knowledge base then that should be encouraged.

If the F/O was being a tool and trying to show he knew more than you then he should have been booted back up to the flight deck sharpish.

Definitely option B.

I put up with his cr@p until the Captain stepped in.

My point originally was that the safest way, NOT the cheapest, is to always have 2 independent checks, one by a Pilot and one by an LAME.

[1me]

It might be pertinent to remember that some tech crew started their careers as engineers and some even became LAME's before taking up a seat in the flight deck.

I think our pilots are second to none and their skill and dedication is exemplary. Likewise, our engineers live in no-one's shadow and also display a level of skill, knowledge and professionalism that holds them IMO in the highest regard. Some may disagree.

[framer]

Did you even read what I said

Yip. This bit of info was missing though

(instead of doing his job preparing the cockpit while the Captain was doing his preflight),

And that changed the meaning of it for me completely. I thought the F/O was doing the external preflight, when by the sounds of it, the F/O was shirking his duties. Hard to imagine getting out of your seat and going downstairs if all your ducks weren't in a row but stranger things have hapenned I guess.
I now revise my statement to "What a tool....glad there aren't many F/O's like that around anymore"

[airsupport]

And that changed the meaning of it for me completely. I thought the F/O was doing the external preflight, when by the sounds of it, the F/O was shirking his duties. Hard to imagine getting out of your seat and going downstairs if all your ducks weren't in a row but stranger things have hapenned I guess.
I now revise my statement to "What a tool....glad there aren't many F/O's like that around anymore"

Okay, maybe I did not explain it in enough detail at first, I was trying to be brief, especially as it was a little off topic.

I was looking after a B737 that had arrived in BNE and was departing again ASAP. While I was doing my preflight inspection the new Crew came out to the aircraft and the Captain started doing his preflight external inspection and the F/O was supposed to go upstairs and check/prepare the cockpit, however he stayed downstairs following me around asking questions until the Captain told him where to go and apologised to me.

After some 40 odd years in the Industry, working and flying all over the World, I have much respect for (most) Pilots, however even the best trained Pilots, even IF they were Engineers previously, will NOT have as much up to date Engineering knowledge as the LAMEs, the ONLY safe way to do preflight inspections is by using at least one Pilot AND at least one LAME.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Hey guys just be careful what you say about strikebreakers on here. I wouldn't be naming them either directly or in code. Let them do what they do, they have to look themselves in the face in the bathroom each morning.

[framer]

even the best trained Pilots, even IF they were Engineers previously, will NOT have as much up to date Engineering knowledge as the LAMEs,

I agree whole-heartedly AirSupport.

[Clipped]

Has anyone advised Julia that her BBJ, being an NG, that there is a dollar to be saved by not needing a LAME for it's preflights?

[the rim]

julia's bbj

not sure if the system of maint. has been change ...but a few years ago her or was it his, BBJ operating domestic sector still required a LAME to sign the RTS or what ever they call it on that aircraft...can someone update us on the present system of maint......would look good if her aircraft needed a LAME but not for the travelling voters....the rim

[airsupport]

As I guess is obvious from my last few posts here, I am just so against Qantas doing turnrounds without LAMES.

However I have been advised by Steve P that I am fighting a losing battle as Virgin and Jetstar already do them (which I did know).

I just can NOT believe safety standards have sunk so low, glad I am retired, and from now on I think I will travel by train.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

It's not a losing battle it's just a tough one to counter. Stick together and we can fight anything.

[airsupport]

Okay Steve, maybe I misunderstood you, sorry.

I will start a new thread before I get accused of hijacking.

[Arnold E]

Hey guys just be careful what you say about strikebreakers on here. I wouldn't be naming them either directly or in code. Let them do what they do, they have to look themselves in the face in the bathroom each morning.

Not so sure about that one Steve. I, for one, would like to know who these people are so that when they turn up in other sections of the industry, and they will, they can be treated appropriately in the crib room. It has been my experience that these type of people can and do look at themselves in the mirror each morning and dont see anything wrong. From my perspective, they cast no shadow.

[emal140]

Julia's Jet.....

Rim / Clipped
I am told that the BBJ will always require a LAME to sign the tech log as every sector is regarded as ETOPS. Something that is done as the aircraft may require to change destination in flight and that destination may be ETOPS.

E