Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
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The problem is, Rim, there is nothing to consider. Almost 5 months of negotiating with QF and no offer is on the table. Qantas again failing to negotiate in "good faith".
They are using the same old(meadow) tactics:-
1) Drag out negotiations - try to make backpay an issue.
2) Train up managers, and other creatures of the night. (One night time session every 4 years and Qantas deems them proficient - being a LAME is so easy).
3) 'Burn' money - whatever it takes. They spent $150m last time, destroyed the reputation of a great airline, and disengaged the workforce. (Don't worry, they don't have to reveal how much money has been flushed until after it's over).
Mind you, with QF using the same tactics as last time, might mean we end up getting a better deal than most were willing to accept, like last time.
Here's an idea AJ! Learn from history. Make a decent offer, save the money you are about to 'burn', engage with this part of your workforce. Use the positive press to show that you do know that working with your employees is essential in a premium airline.
They are using the same old(meadow) tactics:-
1) Drag out negotiations - try to make backpay an issue.
2) Train up managers, and other creatures of the night. (One night time session every 4 years and Qantas deems them proficient - being a LAME is so easy).
3) 'Burn' money - whatever it takes. They spent $150m last time, destroyed the reputation of a great airline, and disengaged the workforce. (Don't worry, they don't have to reveal how much money has been flushed until after it's over).
Mind you, with QF using the same tactics as last time, might mean we end up getting a better deal than most were willing to accept, like last time.
Here's an idea AJ! Learn from history. Make a decent offer, save the money you are about to 'burn', engage with this part of your workforce. Use the positive press to show that you do know that working with your employees is essential in a premium airline.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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sounds like something is warming up and SP wants us to keep our powder dry.....agree with you MF same old[meadow] tactics draw it out and hold the backpay over our heads,but I think SP has got that under control,just read that QF profits are up so we can see a big EA coming our way
.....sorry I was dreaming
...or was that drinking
.....sorry I was dreaming...or was that drinking
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Regarding the wage claim:
An idea that was thrown around last EBA was to use their infamous 3% pay rise but applied to the base pay of the highest grade LAME (now Lvl 15) and carry that same dollar amount down to each of the lower grades.
On current base pay rates that's approx $65. 3% for a Lvl 15 but around 5% for a single licence LAME.
An idea that's likely to be shot down by some but acceptable to most, including the company. This would also help to bring the lower grade LAMEs a bit closer to the pay rates seen at Jet* and virgin.
An idea that was thrown around last EBA was to use their infamous 3% pay rise but applied to the base pay of the highest grade LAME (now Lvl 15) and carry that same dollar amount down to each of the lower grades.
On current base pay rates that's approx $65. 3% for a Lvl 15 but around 5% for a single licence LAME.
An idea that's likely to be shot down by some but acceptable to most, including the company. This would also help to bring the lower grade LAMEs a bit closer to the pay rates seen at Jet* and virgin.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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can you please elaborate on what deal you are talking about?
Is that a deal regarding the A380 bus boys or the EBA?
I like the Idea of 5% of Lvl 15 plus bolt on the day-shift penalty rates for those who don't get it, 2 points a year and I think that could be a start.
Is that a deal regarding the A380 bus boys or the EBA?
I like the Idea of 5% of Lvl 15 plus bolt on the day-shift penalty rates for those who don't get it, 2 points a year and I think that could be a start.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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It's about time the shafting that was dished out to the post 96ers is rectified!
It's only a matter of time before there's more LAMEs that started after 96 than before. Then it will be very high in the priorities!
It's only a matter of time before there's more LAMEs that started after 96 than before. Then it will be very high in the priorities!
It's only a matter of time before there's more LAMEs that started after 96 than before.
So long as the final deal is fair, we should be satisfied. Sometimes it takes more than 1 EBA to get to your final desire. If what comes from EBA 9 does not satisfy you in terms of changes to wage structure etc, dont dispair, keep the discussions going between ourselves and develop a better more desirable proposal the company will accept.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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LAME 2, I agree with you on the point that we need to solve the pay structure over time, but I think that time has come to start ratling the chains.
The last thing we want though is that the older guys start to retire and leave a massive vacuum in the ranks without completing a restructure first as this would cut off the chances of getting back morning penalty rates and the top end pay level spectrum.
What is your opinion Fed Sec?
The last thing we want though is that the older guys start to retire and leave a massive vacuum in the ranks without completing a restructure first as this would cut off the chances of getting back morning penalty rates and the top end pay level spectrum.
What is your opinion Fed Sec?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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It's all a matter of how the pie gets cut up.
If I was post 96 and asked-
Do you want 5% more in shift penalties or 10% more in wages? Id most likely take the wages.
There is a lot of water to pass under the bridge first.
If I was post 96 and asked-
Do you want 5% more in shift penalties or 10% more in wages? Id most likely take the wages.
There is a lot of water to pass under the bridge first.
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10% more in wages sounds good
and if the company wants something in return, I'm more than happy to vote for the pre 96ers to lose the same shift penalties and redundancy entitlements they gave up on our behalf back then...
and if the company wants something in return, I'm more than happy to vote for the pre 96ers to lose the same shift penalties and redundancy entitlements they gave up on our behalf back then...
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I remember a meeting held at the Rowers during EBA 8, where the negotiating committee was excited to finally present us an offer that was placed on the table by the company (although some of the fine details at the time could not be fully told to us). Although the offer seemed acceptable to some, and was definately a long time coming, it was ultimately voted down by the members.
The ALAEA copped a bit of flack for the subsequent PIA, although this was a decision made by it's membership.
No deals will be done until the membership are happy with what is placed before us. And unless it is an acceptable offer, it will be all the way with PIA.
The ALAEA copped a bit of flack for the subsequent PIA, although this was a decision made by it's membership.
No deals will be done until the membership are happy with what is placed before us. And unless it is an acceptable offer, it will be all the way with PIA.
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A good point you make Ngineer
This executive like no other before it gives it's membership the full voice, no matter where it is, I think the Forstaff EBA was a good example of this ALAEA exec said no membership said yes end result it goes through.
It's pleasing to have leadership that listens and does what the majority of it's members/ employees want not that I'd get that where I work
This executive like no other before it gives it's membership the full voice, no matter where it is, I think the Forstaff EBA was a good example of this ALAEA exec said no membership said yes end result it goes through.
It's pleasing to have leadership that listens and does what the majority of it's members/ employees want not that I'd get that where I work
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OM OM were you one of the many who was unsuccessful in getting a 380 course? Because you seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder in regards to the young guys who have put in the hard work and jumped through the all the hoops CASA and QF have put before them.
Good luck to them I say.
You can go and join the base supervisor who was barking to anyone in tech training that would listen to his rant about AMEs being trained. It is these younger guys who have still have a reasonable attitude that will go places, not old crusty bitter LAMEs who in their eyes never have enough,licences, money , status. Move out of the way and give these younger guys a chance, be they 330,380 or 738 initial LAMEs.
Good luck to them I say.
You can go and join the base supervisor who was barking to anyone in tech training that would listen to his rant about AMEs being trained. It is these younger guys who have still have a reasonable attitude that will go places, not old crusty bitter LAMEs who in their eyes never have enough,licences, money , status. Move out of the way and give these younger guys a chance, be they 330,380 or 738 initial LAMEs.
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I am neither a wipper snapper or a relic Seldomfixit, I have been around long enough to see this crap happen more than once.
As some are talking about fixing the 96 EBA issues, if we let the dinosaurs have their way these things will never get resolved because they are on such a good thing all they way up at the higher levels anything that happens in these newer EBAs wont affect them.
If anyone can remember back to 93 when the AMEs let the new grading system in, well back then it didn't affect any AME as they were all currently employed, the new rules would only screw those who came after them.
So now nearly 20 years later new AMEs outnumber old AMEs, all that needs to happen is for a carrot to dangled in front of the newer people to screw the older members.
The same thing can happen here with the LAMEs. Look after the younger guys now and support them as they become LAMEs, if not as they start to outnumber the older guys , the carrot will be dangled to screw them.
This divide and conquer thing doesn't have to happen overnight, but it certainly has happened.
Reading this thread, why would a new young LAME want to be part of an association that wants to see them fail.
That would be parents eating their young.
As some are talking about fixing the 96 EBA issues, if we let the dinosaurs have their way these things will never get resolved because they are on such a good thing all they way up at the higher levels anything that happens in these newer EBAs wont affect them.
If anyone can remember back to 93 when the AMEs let the new grading system in, well back then it didn't affect any AME as they were all currently employed, the new rules would only screw those who came after them.
So now nearly 20 years later new AMEs outnumber old AMEs, all that needs to happen is for a carrot to dangled in front of the newer people to screw the older members.
The same thing can happen here with the LAMEs. Look after the younger guys now and support them as they become LAMEs, if not as they start to outnumber the older guys , the carrot will be dangled to screw them.
This divide and conquer thing doesn't have to happen overnight, but it certainly has happened.
Reading this thread, why would a new young LAME want to be part of an association that wants to see them fail.
That would be parents eating their young.
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yes, super I agree the younger LAME will if not already overtake the older one's I dont mind if the post '96 get the shift pen added into their wage,but leave out one "quack".I think "seldomfixit" should change his name to "neverfixit" as he does not post much on here that's useful,lets just see what the Bexley men come up with for ALL LAME's and hopefully soon.....rim