Qf LAME EBA Negotiations Begin
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
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Most members I talk to don't want to go down the PIA road but they will vote for it to show the company we are fair dinkum and to have the tools available if needed later.
Regarding the wage claim, GH is making it fairly clear he won't consider the 2 points per year model without a big fight and if the last dispute is anything to go by they won't give any more than the 3%pa headline wage rise. So it comes down to the sweeteners. A temporary opening of quotas just isn't going to cut it for most members. Unless there's an extra grade or points for EVERYONE it's not going to be voted in.
Opening up the quotas temporarily is great if you are one of the lucky ones who pick up a grade or two but it's going to make it very hard for those trying to get into the over-subscribed quotas after the life of the agreement. A very short sighted proposition.
The compulsory recognition and thus payment of EASA allowances for ALL LAMEs who achieve the applicable qualification and not just those picked by the company is another thing we should be pursuing seriously. QF should be forced to bring all LAMEs and AMEs into the new system not just those they segregate over to separate operations like "Team380". This is yet another divide and concur issue!
Just a few of my opinions and what I'm hearing around the traps. Feel free to shoot me down.
Regarding the wage claim, GH is making it fairly clear he won't consider the 2 points per year model without a big fight and if the last dispute is anything to go by they won't give any more than the 3%pa headline wage rise. So it comes down to the sweeteners. A temporary opening of quotas just isn't going to cut it for most members. Unless there's an extra grade or points for EVERYONE it's not going to be voted in.
Opening up the quotas temporarily is great if you are one of the lucky ones who pick up a grade or two but it's going to make it very hard for those trying to get into the over-subscribed quotas after the life of the agreement. A very short sighted proposition.
The compulsory recognition and thus payment of EASA allowances for ALL LAMEs who achieve the applicable qualification and not just those picked by the company is another thing we should be pursuing seriously. QF should be forced to bring all LAMEs and AMEs into the new system not just those they segregate over to separate operations like "Team380". This is yet another divide and concur issue!
Just a few of my opinions and what I'm hearing around the traps. Feel free to shoot me down.
The other option is a campaign run by 1600 individuals seeking 1600 different outcomes.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
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What about a few Rowers meetings?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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What they have said pretty much mirrors what our notices have been saying. Just a few simple points are-
-We want a negotiated outcome. Qantas did not give us one scrap of anything until the prospect of PIA was before them. Take that possibility away and we move 6 months back with no prospect of conclusion.
-This EA is not about a pay rise. It is about job security and hopefully, to fix a few ongoing issues with our pay system.
-Do not take your Industrial advice from Managers.
-Do not take your Industrial advice from want to be Managers.
-Please read our notices, emails etc... Read them again if need be or call me. If I don't answer, send an SMS and I will get back to you.
cheers
-We want a negotiated outcome. Qantas did not give us one scrap of anything until the prospect of PIA was before them. Take that possibility away and we move 6 months back with no prospect of conclusion.
-This EA is not about a pay rise. It is about job security and hopefully, to fix a few ongoing issues with our pay system.
-Do not take your Industrial advice from Managers.
-Do not take your Industrial advice from want to be Managers.
-Please read our notices, emails etc... Read them again if need be or call me. If I don't answer, send an SMS and I will get back to you.
cheers
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
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They would come before we took any action.
3+3+3 and quota fiddle?!?!
Well I'm bemused to say the least.
6 months or more down the track and they proffer 3+3+3 and a quota fiddle. The same old formula. sigh. where's the innovation? where's the ground breaking vision?
It aint rocket science fellas.
The exec proved themselves last eba and the members proved themselves last eba.
On that basis alone I'll be ticking the yes box.
Use the old noodle and you'll work it out.
6 months or more down the track and they proffer 3+3+3 and a quota fiddle. The same old formula. sigh. where's the innovation? where's the ground breaking vision?
It aint rocket science fellas.
The exec proved themselves last eba and the members proved themselves last eba.
On that basis alone I'll be ticking the yes box.
Use the old noodle and you'll work it out.
We should all be seeking a fair deal. In todays environment, that possibly means for the majority, some form of job security. If we were to accept only a 3% PA rise with no other clauses, I feel we are voting some of our brothers out of the company. We would be agreeing, to a reduction in our numbers. We would be agreeing to a reshuffling of our crew composition and our rostering. Fewer numbers on days, more people on nights or alternatively fewer numbers on nights and more nightshifts per roster pattern. Recent experience shows we are not fully informed of the consequences of our discussions with the company. I refer to the B747 outsourcing. "Vote for an early EBA to help us capture extra work otherwise it will be sent overseas". Only to see the overhaul checks sent overseas. Give with one hand and with slight of hand, take with the other.
This period of instability may contain the most important decisions of our careers, one our children will either hold in disdain or thank us for. Decisions where we aid the demise of our proud profession or support the foundations on which it has been built.
I put my faith in the Bexley boys. They may not hit a home run each time but they give their all for the rest of us. I'm sure the likes of company CEO's and CASA Management grind their teeth at night thinking what will arrive from Bexley tomorrow. Keep them honest lads. The likes of others wont.
Rant over. Apologies to all.
This period of instability may contain the most important decisions of our careers, one our children will either hold in disdain or thank us for. Decisions where we aid the demise of our proud profession or support the foundations on which it has been built.
I put my faith in the Bexley boys. They may not hit a home run each time but they give their all for the rest of us. I'm sure the likes of company CEO's and CASA Management grind their teeth at night thinking what will arrive from Bexley tomorrow. Keep them honest lads. The likes of others wont.
Rant over. Apologies to all.
I put my faith in the Bexley boys. They may not hit a home run each time but they give their all for the rest of us. I'm sure the likes of company CEO's and CASA Management grind their teeth at night thinking what will arrive from Bexley tomorrow. Keep them honest lads. The likes of others wont.
LAME 2 - I saw no rant!
The only apologies that are required are from the posers who call themselves management!
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Vote for an early EBA to help us capture extra work otherwise it will be sent overseas". Only to see the overhaul checks sent overseas.
Should have seen that coming when they wanted early EBA vote "fail"
Should have seen that coming when they wanted early EBA vote "fail"
Join Date: Jan 2008
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A vote for PIA is a must................
If you vote no then you are entrusting your future with QF managenent.
If you vote no then you are entrusting your house, your kids your lifestyle with QF management.
If you think QF management is doing a good job of running the company for long term performance, and is doing it's best to further the aircraft maintenance industry in Australia, then vote no, it's as simple as that..........
If you cannot confidently answer 'yes' to the above paragraph, then you must vote 'YES' for PIA.
I would expect that QF is the biggest single employer of LAMEs in Aus. so we are responsible for ensuring the long term viability of the profession, as QF management is only concerned with short term profit, even at the expense of Australia's Aircraft Engineering capability.
As Fed Sec has said, it's about more than money!
I am one of the few who would benefit from the removal of quotas, but I also want a long term future, something this 'offer' does not give.
If you vote no then you are entrusting your future with QF managenent.
If you vote no then you are entrusting your house, your kids your lifestyle with QF management.
If you think QF management is doing a good job of running the company for long term performance, and is doing it's best to further the aircraft maintenance industry in Australia, then vote no, it's as simple as that..........
If you cannot confidently answer 'yes' to the above paragraph, then you must vote 'YES' for PIA.
I would expect that QF is the biggest single employer of LAMEs in Aus. so we are responsible for ensuring the long term viability of the profession, as QF management is only concerned with short term profit, even at the expense of Australia's Aircraft Engineering capability.
As Fed Sec has said, it's about more than money!
I am one of the few who would benefit from the removal of quotas, but I also want a long term future, something this 'offer' does not give.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Q management visit
Being a sunny bunny I was interested to hear of a visit by the Q team over the weekend. Did you get the usual lip service "were not here to negotiate but explain the company position".
You like us already know the company position as we see and hear the Irish brogue through out the media crying poor - although they do announce a 56% increase in profits.
So it must be future poor after he screws up the airline!
Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy when they open this way - knowing full well that they are just ticking the box's so that when it blows up they can say we have been communicating with the staff.
Firstly the person talking is not or will ever be allowed to make a decision regarding the EA.
I can not see the Irish giving anybody job security as he rides the down ward spiral ( his contract short term) ours is long term. He will be long gone with the golden hand shake, while we are still there trying to glue the wheels back on.
Unity is a must.
You like us already know the company position as we see and hear the Irish brogue through out the media crying poor - although they do announce a 56% increase in profits.
So it must be future poor after he screws up the airline!
Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy when they open this way - knowing full well that they are just ticking the box's so that when it blows up they can say we have been communicating with the staff.
Firstly the person talking is not or will ever be allowed to make a decision regarding the EA.
I can not see the Irish giving anybody job security as he rides the down ward spiral ( his contract short term) ours is long term. He will be long gone with the golden hand shake, while we are still there trying to glue the wheels back on.
Unity is a must.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Q Management Meeting
Just got out of one of those meetings. Were told that they aren't holding the meeting to tell us how to vote, but the industry would cease to exist if we voted 'Yes'. (Possible slight exaggeration).
They didn't like the tactics the ALAEA were employing, but were speechless when asked about using Oldfield Consulting and couldn't give an answer as to why they waited for a PIA ballot before putting out such a basic 3x3x3 offer on the table.
The best part was when asked "What will you do if we vote 'Yes'"? The answer was "We haven't stopped negotiating, there are other matters that we are willing to consider".
So, if the offer tabled by Qantas is not their best and final offer, if they are willing to consider more, why not vote 'Yes' to enable the ALAEA negotiating team to get the best offer posible?
They didn't like the tactics the ALAEA were employing, but were speechless when asked about using Oldfield Consulting and couldn't give an answer as to why they waited for a PIA ballot before putting out such a basic 3x3x3 offer on the table.
The best part was when asked "What will you do if we vote 'Yes'"? The answer was "We haven't stopped negotiating, there are other matters that we are willing to consider".
So, if the offer tabled by Qantas is not their best and final offer, if they are willing to consider more, why not vote 'Yes' to enable the ALAEA negotiating team to get the best offer posible?
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Millet Fanger.
I couldn't agree more.
As I said at the beginning of all this 'Let the games begin'. If we don't vote yes for PIA then we WILL lose the game.
Vote yes for PIA.............
I couldn't agree more.
As I said at the beginning of all this 'Let the games begin'. If we don't vote yes for PIA then we WILL lose the game.
Vote yes for PIA.............
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SP and team,
I think you guys are doing a sterling job. Keep it up. Thankfully it is not me that has to sit across those mongrels at the negotiating table.
You have provided lots of info recently and lames need to understand that the next phase of the negotiation process needs to be a vote of solidarity that allows our negotiating team to get the best outcome.
Trust my Association or trust Qantas management .... now let me think about that.
ALAEA, you've got my YES vote.
I think you guys are doing a sterling job. Keep it up. Thankfully it is not me that has to sit across those mongrels at the negotiating table.
You have provided lots of info recently and lames need to understand that the next phase of the negotiation process needs to be a vote of solidarity that allows our negotiating team to get the best outcome.
Trust my Association or trust Qantas management .... now let me think about that.
ALAEA, you've got my YES vote.
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Trust my Association or trust Qantas management
VOTE YES FOR PIA and LET THE NEGOTIATION TEAM DO IT"S JOB
After all at least we voted them unlike QF Mgrs who just got 'appointed' sometimes over and over
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On the issue of job security , I cannot ever see QF or any other airline giving those assurances , who knows what will happen to the world economy ? However, could I offer as a suggestion , what we got from mgmt when they closed Bankstown workshops and the Engine shop . No forced redundancies , every one who wants to stay had a job those who want a package can go. Over my time blokes were fighting for the CR payout , some though wanted to stay . So , if the ALAEA could get an assurance along those lines it would be better than what they currently have , and there is precedence . Just a thought!
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You have no idea what we have.
Currently we have the right (within our EBA) to retain all existing job functions. A right won by ALAEA members when they stood up for their rights last time around.
I would not suggest any member take advice from a unionist who has been involved in some way with the dismantling of Australian facilities. Now we are left fitting substandard parts and engines because of another group that did not have the balls to stand up.
Currently we have the right (within our EBA) to retain all existing job functions. A right won by ALAEA members when they stood up for their rights last time around.
I would not suggest any member take advice from a unionist who has been involved in some way with the dismantling of Australian facilities. Now we are left fitting substandard parts and engines because of another group that did not have the balls to stand up.