Merged: Big changes for Qantas cadets
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Im hearing ya. You know when QF was asking the Australian public and aviation experts to help with the naming of the 20 dugongs my suggestion was.......The Unsung Cadets. What do you think????
Im hearing ya. You know when QF was asking the Australian public and aviation experts to help with the naming of the 20 dugongs my suggestion was.......The Unsung Cadets. What do you think????
Krusty, (when I started this, it was directed at you, by the end it became directed not so much at you but the cadet bashers before you)
The cadetship is a very real option for me (as is RAAF and GA). At the moment I am learning to fly, almost at GFPT level, every cent of it my money that I have earnt. I plan to get my PPL before I start whatever it is I end up doing, still all out of money I have earnt since about 14 saving up.
If I get on the cadetship or go GA I will eventually get to a point where I run out of my money, and that my job I am doing at the time can't cover for, then I will have to get money of parents - who I will definitely pay back as it would seriously effect their ability to retire - and then student loans from banks.
It is one of my pet hates that occurs here and to an extent where I fly, they assume it's 'daddy' paying for his pride and joy to be a pilot. It's not. I am working my but off for something I love.
Oh and I have no aviation links in my family. So all of you who say the cadetship is for rich, captains son's (and daughters), get off your high horse all of you who say that that is what it's there for. Every route has a 'hard yards section', GA, RAAF, QF Cadetship. They are all different.
In my opinion the perfect flight deck at QF would be a Cadet, a RAAFie and a GA man, the three backgrounds of experience, if used properly and not ignored because each thinks they are better than the other, will create an exceptional environment.
My 2c
The cadetship is a very real option for me (as is RAAF and GA). At the moment I am learning to fly, almost at GFPT level, every cent of it my money that I have earnt. I plan to get my PPL before I start whatever it is I end up doing, still all out of money I have earnt since about 14 saving up.
If I get on the cadetship or go GA I will eventually get to a point where I run out of my money, and that my job I am doing at the time can't cover for, then I will have to get money of parents - who I will definitely pay back as it would seriously effect their ability to retire - and then student loans from banks.
It is one of my pet hates that occurs here and to an extent where I fly, they assume it's 'daddy' paying for his pride and joy to be a pilot. It's not. I am working my but off for something I love.
Oh and I have no aviation links in my family. So all of you who say the cadetship is for rich, captains son's (and daughters), get off your high horse all of you who say that that is what it's there for. Every route has a 'hard yards section', GA, RAAF, QF Cadetship. They are all different.
In my opinion the perfect flight deck at QF would be a Cadet, a RAAFie and a GA man, the three backgrounds of experience, if used properly and not ignored because each thinks they are better than the other, will create an exceptional environment.
My 2c
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If finally eligible for CIPP, you are likely to be waitlisted for that too. Then you may receive a phone call advising you that your industry placement is to fly in Darwin for a minimum of 2 years.
Do you know how many hoops a GA pilot has had to jump through to get a turbine gig in Darwin, and how grateful they would be for that job?
They have probably been successful at a number of selection processes (first job, second job, first twin job, first turbine job, etc, etc.) and have had to keep their nose clean the whole time too. Many have been denied promotion due to the slightest error. No seniority here. The industry spits the weak out quickly.
It’s not just the flying experience that one gains in GA, but also the life experience of hitting the road with very few dollars and no knowledge of what the next job will be or where the next meal will come from. All the while, most know that they will probably NEVER get the chance to fly for Qantas; but they keep plugging away anyway.
I have nothing against the cadetship, but I think that some need to keep things in perspective and lose the attitude. The reality is that most will be flying a wide-body for six figures by their early twenties. Put your head down, keep your nose clean, respect those with more experience than you, learn as much as you can, and you will be fine. The apprentice cops the **** in any industry; we all went through it.
I have nothing against the cadetship, but I think that some need to keep things in perspective and lose the attitude. The reality is that most will be flying a wide-body for six figures by their early twenties. Put your head down, keep your nose clean, respect those with more experience than you, learn as much as you can, and you will be fine. The apprentice cops the **** in any industry; we all went through it.
mcgrath50.
Not quite sure where you're coming from son. When you say "when I started this", does that refer to the thread (cause' Dragun started this one). When you say "it was directed at you" ie: me, Why?
I have a bit to say about Cadetships (read Cadetships, not Cadets persay). But to the best of my knowledge (and by all means feel free to quote otherwise), I do not recall commenting one way or another about the quality of the end product. If fact I have stated that Cadetships heve been around in one form or another for years. It is the Quality of the Cadetship (not just QF to be sure) that I have been quite vocal about. That's of course if that's what you mean. For as I said I'm still not quite sure where you are coming from?
As for spending every spare dollar (and 2 cents, nicely said Bo777), well, join the club. Most posters here could probably relate to a seemingly endless time of poverty, and missed opportunity. Without getting into a p!ssing contest, you are in good company. Except, borrowing money from my parents, when the level of uncertainty was high, never occured to me as an option!
I simply stacked a few more groceries, and dug some extra ditches!
Not quite sure where you're coming from son. When you say "when I started this", does that refer to the thread (cause' Dragun started this one). When you say "it was directed at you" ie: me, Why?
I have a bit to say about Cadetships (read Cadetships, not Cadets persay). But to the best of my knowledge (and by all means feel free to quote otherwise), I do not recall commenting one way or another about the quality of the end product. If fact I have stated that Cadetships heve been around in one form or another for years. It is the Quality of the Cadetship (not just QF to be sure) that I have been quite vocal about. That's of course if that's what you mean. For as I said I'm still not quite sure where you are coming from?
As for spending every spare dollar (and 2 cents, nicely said Bo777), well, join the club. Most posters here could probably relate to a seemingly endless time of poverty, and missed opportunity. Without getting into a p!ssing contest, you are in good company. Except, borrowing money from my parents, when the level of uncertainty was high, never occured to me as an option!
I simply stacked a few more groceries, and dug some extra ditches!
Krusty,
I originally set out to answer your questions of 'What do the majority of Cadets do whilst waiting for the Call up? Do they sit around by the phone, do they occupy their time, and supplement their income (whatever that may be) by working at at Maccas', or do they go out and do the hard yards while they wait? '
But by the time I finished it became more of a soap box moment against the guys before you spouting the old 'Cadets = rich kids who get a job on a silver platter' BS and I just wanted to make sure you knew that wasn't directed at you.
I originally set out to answer your questions of 'What do the majority of Cadets do whilst waiting for the Call up? Do they sit around by the phone, do they occupy their time, and supplement their income (whatever that may be) by working at at Maccas', or do they go out and do the hard yards while they wait? '
But by the time I finished it became more of a soap box moment against the guys before you spouting the old 'Cadets = rich kids who get a job on a silver platter' BS and I just wanted to make sure you knew that wasn't directed at you.
Thanks mcgrath50, Glad we cleard that up, now back in my hole!
But before I go, Go easy on the Cadets guys, If you're really honest with yourselves, most of us would have jumped at any opportunity to get into the game, and that includes Cadetships.
Sadly, as I keep harping on, these things are sometimes administered by people that would have trouble organising a chook raffle down at the local!
But before I go, Go easy on the Cadets guys, If you're really honest with yourselves, most of us would have jumped at any opportunity to get into the game, and that includes Cadetships.
Sadly, as I keep harping on, these things are sometimes administered by people that would have trouble organising a chook raffle down at the local!
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'...the perfect flight deck at QF would be a Cadet, a RAAFie and a GA man...'
One to work the FMC, one who knows what to do if the ship is upside down, and one who can run it on the smell of an oily rag. Perfect! ;-)
One to work the FMC, one who knows what to do if the ship is upside down, and one who can run it on the smell of an oily rag. Perfect! ;-)
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I know several of the cadets from one of the more recent courses who are waiting for CIPP. I know of a few who have gone and started an instructor rating, a few who are working. Not having spoken to these guys for a while, I'm not sure about the rest.
Sure some Cadets are rich, but there always seems to be a token western suburbs kid borrowing heavily, as well as some who have worked hard to finance the course themselves. I would say 75% of cadets are in serious debt, and at the costs charged by FTA/GFS it's significantly more than most GA Pilots! With no potential for income for those 6-24 months....
Don't give that hard work GA stuff. If you choose to work in an environment with very poor money, not knowing when your next meal is, that is your choice. Don't slag off on these men and women because they choose an alternative route. It could be said that "Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and they (the cadets) took the one less travelled."
Sure some Cadets are rich, but there always seems to be a token western suburbs kid borrowing heavily, as well as some who have worked hard to finance the course themselves. I would say 75% of cadets are in serious debt, and at the costs charged by FTA/GFS it's significantly more than most GA Pilots! With no potential for income for those 6-24 months....
Don't give that hard work GA stuff. If you choose to work in an environment with very poor money, not knowing when your next meal is, that is your choice. Don't slag off on these men and women because they choose an alternative route. It could be said that "Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and they (the cadets) took the one less travelled."
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Mig3
Its not 500hrs TT but 500hrs PIC not a big difference, but still a difference. Obviously you haven't gained that experience of 500hrs command or else you wouldn't haphazardly say that it's of little value. I personally learnt quite a bit in that "low time", i.e making command decisions especially in IMC, building character etc. During my time in GA I never came across any pilots that believed they "deserved a spot in QF", just alot who aspired to fly for QF one day. Maybe that's the difference between GA pilots and cadets....this attitude you speak of. A number of GA guys I know including myself are just thankful to have had an opportunity to fly and gain experience in GA but also on the flip slide are very very thankful to be out of GA and in an airline. In my experience a number of cadets have this attitude that QF owes them a spot, i.e I paid this x amount of $$$ so they have to give me a job. BS Remember QF owes nobody anything.
Its not 500hrs TT but 500hrs PIC not a big difference, but still a difference. Obviously you haven't gained that experience of 500hrs command or else you wouldn't haphazardly say that it's of little value. I personally learnt quite a bit in that "low time", i.e making command decisions especially in IMC, building character etc. During my time in GA I never came across any pilots that believed they "deserved a spot in QF", just alot who aspired to fly for QF one day. Maybe that's the difference between GA pilots and cadets....this attitude you speak of. A number of GA guys I know including myself are just thankful to have had an opportunity to fly and gain experience in GA but also on the flip slide are very very thankful to be out of GA and in an airline. In my experience a number of cadets have this attitude that QF owes them a spot, i.e I paid this x amount of $$$ so they have to give me a job. BS Remember QF owes nobody anything.
Bo777,
Not all cadets believe QF owes them a job. I'd say most believe they have to work hard and maintain a standard to get given the job. Just like GA pilots and RAAFies
Not all cadets believe QF owes them a job. I'd say most believe they have to work hard and maintain a standard to get given the job. Just like GA pilots and RAAFies
Two things, pilot recruitment in any form, in the current climate, is dead. And you would have to have rocks in your head to spend the dollars quoted to gain the basic qualifications that the qantas cadetship costs.
Shop around kiddies. GA, its a beautiful thing.
Shop around kiddies. GA, its a beautiful thing.
'mcgrath,
Whatever mate.......obviously your talking from crewroom, flightdeck and pub chinwag experience.'
I thought your post before you edited it reflected your argument better.
I'm giving up.
I've been having you on this whole time. I think that if daddy pays QF enough money i should be given the left hand seat (that is custom built to fit me perfectly) flying any patterns I wish.
Yeah right...
Whatever mate.......obviously your talking from crewroom, flightdeck and pub chinwag experience.'
I thought your post before you edited it reflected your argument better.
I'm giving up.
I've been having you on this whole time. I think that if daddy pays QF enough money i should be given the left hand seat (that is custom built to fit me perfectly) flying any patterns I wish.
Yeah right...
Bo......you can bitch and whinge all you want about cadets....the reality is, you'll probably be sitting either to the right or behind mcgrath one day. Deal with, accept it, and move on.
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goodonya
hahahahaha...........i doubt it
Dutch oven
Qlink's not the only airline that operates out of brisvegas.
Dutch O commenting on my statement you said it yourself, didnt you??? I've bolded the important words:
hahahahaha...........i doubt it
Dutch oven
Qlink's not the only airline that operates out of brisvegas.
Dutch O commenting on my statement you said it yourself, didnt you??? I've bolded the important words:
good on ya flynavy28 
. i recon you've made the right choice to pull out. disadvantages of being a cadet include being under the microscope for 3-4 years, paying between $47000 to $100000 for training and copping a bit of grief for being a 'cadet'. after all this, remember there is no guarantee of QF employment. and just incase you forget this, you are constantly reminded of the NO GUARANTEE. the things that made the cadetship attractive included having a turbo prop job supplied after training, NOT having to perform any direct entry assessments between CIPP and Qf emplyment and the prospect of seniority which has been in doubt lately.
if the 09 cadetship is structured as described above, i think the attractiveness of the cadetship just isn't there. it seems as though going bush on your own would be quicker, cheaper and easier. i think the qantas cadetship has been killed which is a shame.
. i recon you've made the right choice to pull out. disadvantages of being a cadet include being under the microscope for 3-4 years, paying between $47000 to $100000 for training and copping a bit of grief for being a 'cadet'. after all this, remember there is no guarantee of QF employment. and just incase you forget this, you are constantly reminded of the NO GUARANTEE. the things that made the cadetship attractive included having a turbo prop job supplied after training, NOT having to perform any direct entry assessments between CIPP and Qf emplyment and the prospect of seniority which has been in doubt lately. if the 09 cadetship is structured as described above, i think the attractiveness of the cadetship just isn't there. it seems as though going bush on your own would be quicker, cheaper and easier. i think the qantas cadetship has been killed which is a shame.
Last edited by Bo777; 25th Jan 2009 at 12:04.